300 rwhp.. blower or mild h/c/i

[dstang01]

For a 300 rwhp street car, is it best to go with a mild h/c/i combo or bolt up a centrifugal and call it a day? The price would probably be similar, but the feel of the car would be alot different.

The car will be a daily driver, and driven mostly on the street. Reliability, torquey powerband, drivability and decent gas mileage are top priority (by decent, i mean around 20 mpg with mixed driving)
I know the 5.0 is choked significantly by stock parts, so throwing a supercharger on there to force air through crap parts probably isnt too efficient. Also, how do the stock parts handle boost? My instinct would be to replace the stock heads with some quality aluminum ones, put on a better intake with a lower powerband, and maybe a b cam or similar (or just go with a trickflow topend kit)... but then i hear of guys bolting up a vortech on a stock engine and having no problems at all. Can anyone shed some light onto this situation? (sorry for another annoying vs. thread.. but opinions might be a little different depending on individual situations)

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

get a trickflow kit and be done

boost is a pain....

you will have more fun also with the h/c/i IMO

 

[stangman94]

Or do gt 40 heads and intake and a supecharger. You will see alot better gains with gt40 heads and intake and thats only an extra 200 or so bucks

 

[95opal]

HCI

 

[tjh566]

H/C/I if only 300 rwhp is your goal, if you to add more easily in the future go with the charger.

H/C/I is def. more reliable, easier on the enigne, ect.

 

[final5-0]

get a trickflow kit and be done

boost is a pain....

you will have more fun also with the h/c/i IMO

OK ... I wanna throw in my 2 cents worth in here

I love boost ... I wanna make that crystal clear here
and
I ain't never had it but I will some day

Having said that ... I think it is wise to listen to Kyle as he
has had a good bit of experience with it.

I've had countless NA combos from mild to race only wild.

Here is the rub I got with threads like these

Some of the time ... peeps seem to make it seem a boosted
combo is no different than any other combo and all you need
is the base unit.

You need all the supporting hardware and a tune to go with it
and
You need a mindset of concern about things like gas quality,
high temps like summer time, and how those two examples
could possibly make you wanna run different spark values

Or in other words ... A boosted combo can require a bit more
thought in the day to day operation of it.

Heck Fire ... A NA 300 rwhp h/c/i combo can also require a bit
more thought about those kinds of things but not quite as much
based upon my findings with NA

In a nutshell ... I'm trying to say NA is more forgiving about
not knowing something you should have known all along

Make a small mistake with boost and you are gonna be
finding you got the opportunity to change a HG

Hey ... either way ... Boost or NA is gonna require more maintenance
than if you stay OEM stock or build yourself a very mild combo.

Just go into either method with your eyes wide open
and
Do your research with info from those who did what you seek to do

One last thought for you here ...
I'd lean toward NA since you are dealing with a d d restriction

Still ... I'm gonna do one of those KB Zilla Dilla 2200's on my 95
Some Day

Grady

 

[94GTLaserRC]

Some of the time ... peeps seem to make it seem a boosted
combo is no different than any other combo and all you need
is the base unit.

You need all the supporting hardware and a tune to go with it
and
You need a mindset of concern about things like gas quality,
high temps like summer time, and how those two examples
could possibly make you wanna run different spark values

Grady

View attachment 390883

MSD6BTM, Gauges, pods, tunes, injectors, better radiator...LOTS of stuff....I learned the hard way...now that it's over, Im glad I have the Vortech, but that's only because of guys like Joe and Roger that have helped me considerably work through lots of issues.

I think you would be happy with a blower, but I think there is also more chances for regrets, whereas I dont think there would be any regrets with a H/C/I combo, some good exhaust, pulley, gears, and a good tune.

RC

 

[ProKiller]

take from us blower guys, your better off starting with a h/c/i. if later you want more power then you can strap on the blower. i'd go with the trickflow kit. get some more supporting mods then move to a supercharger if thats not enough power for you.

and based on your comments about low end torque you would need to get a KB anyway because the vortech and similar centrifigal superchargers lack that. you'll get more torque out of a h/c/i than with a vortech down low.

at this point i have too much invested in this blower combo to take it off. but i think that if i ever get tired of it, i'll sell the whole engine and start from scratch with a 351based stroker.

my opinion is as follows:
-trickflow top end kit including stage 1 cam
-longtube exhaust
-gears
-24# injectors
-70mm TB
-80mm pro-m mass air
-dyno tune or tweecer or similar tuning device
-beer
-enjoy

 

[xkuntrycowboyx]

Im not saying you're not, but IMO you won't see 300HP outta the trickflow kits. Been on other forums lately checkin it out and several guys with that kit on the stock 302 are seein from 270 to 290 falling short of the 300 mark.

the kit claims 350 dyno proven ponies, but if you check the note, it's on a 306.

Trick Flow Website
NOTE: Kits were dyno-tested on a 306 cubic inch engine with 9.5:1 compression, a 70mm throttle body, 24lb injectors, 190 lph fuel pump, mass air, and 10° base timing.

The only guy on one particular thread that saw over 300 was running just the TW heads and a mix of others with a 306 motor.
..all that posted hp numbers had dyno tunes... check this out .. Trickflow Discussion

just throwing some thoughts and other peoples thoughts out there to help ya, so you don't go for something and your balloon gets popped cuz you don't get 350 ponies outta something because you missed the disclaimer... nothing worse than expecting DYNO PROVEN 350HP and seeing 270-290 with your dyno.

 

[final5-0]

Sure ... We all seem to throw out the value of 300 to the wheels as some kind
of bench mark

I can say without hesitation or reserve .............
I told Ed Curtis I placed an importance of good low end and mid range
torque band W A Y over just peak power or dyno bragging rights kind
of horsepower values

300rwhp is not the be all and end of it all if you ask me

I only made it to a hair over 290 with my combo but I ran outta $$$
at the time I went for a baseline pull at the dyno so I didn't even
make the bench mark

Then again

I knew with the stock parts I still had in place at that time ............
They weren't holding me back all that much ... So ... I felt
the results were a decent indication of the possibilities of the combo.

Since that time I've gone with a larger tb and meter so I most likely
have reached and exceeded 300 by a tiny bit as it now pulls a good
bit harder from mid range to red line.

I don't know

I just somehow wanted to express that just cause you might not make
it to 300 ... that don't necessarily mean you failed or anything like that.

Grady

 

[Car Nut]

Sure ... We all seem to throw out the value of 300 to the wheels as some kind
of bench mark

I can say without hesitation or reserve .............
I told Ed Curtis I placed an importance of good low end and mid range
torque band W A Y over just peak power or dyno bragging rights kind
of horsepower values

300rwhp is not the be all and end of it all if you ask me

I only made it to a hair over 290 with my combo but I ran outta $$$
at the time I went for a baseline pull at the dyno so I didn't even
make the bench mark

Then again

I knew with the stock parts I still had in place at that time ............
They weren't holding me back all that much ... So ... I felt
the results were a decent indication of the possibilities of the combo.

Since that time I've gone with a larger tb and meter so I most likely
have reached and exceeded 300 by a tiny bit as it now pulls a good
bit harder from mid range to red line.

I don't know

I just somehow wanted to express that just cause you might not make
it to 300 ... that don't necessarily mean you failed or anything like that.

Grady

I'm of the same line of thought.

I am very soon to be in the market to spend $$$ on some power upgrades. Power in the low and mid range are most important to me. I've got a ton of miles on my car, so after a compression test and an oil pressure test, I'm gonna decide between the Trick Flow h/c/i Street Kit (may go Comp Cams to help emissions) or a CHP 347e with AFR heads and Edel intake.

I have to meet emissions and either option will keep me legal.

Getting max HP out of either option just isn't a concern at all to me. I want a great torque curve and plenty of added power from idle to 5,000 rpm.

I'm too familiar with the deficienies of the power in the stock setup, so improving my combo with a lot more power down low and in the middle AND making that power more even and continuous from idle to 5,500 rpm is my biggest goal.

I kind of like the simpler route. I've been bone stock, so an h/c/i upgrade will be huge to me. Not sure what the compression test will reveal, but I've got no leaks, don't burn oil, and the engine runs smooth. Gas mileage hasn't really changed over the last 11 years either.

Haven't seen dstang01 repost to this topic?

 

[Ed Calvert]

My Trick Flow #'s

Just to give you another data point. I installed the trick flow h/c/i kit in my 95GT along with 24# injectors, BBK 65mm T.B., Pro-M 75mm MAF, 190 lph fuel pump, Superchip module, MSD ignition module, MAC cold air intake, MAC high flow CATS, MAC shorties and Flowmaster mufflers.
I was dyno tuned to 283HP @ 320lb/ft torque. Air/Fuel Ratio. 13%. The performance shop had indicated to me that these numbers were about right for the Trick flow setup but they had seen installations that put out in the 290 to 300 HP range. So, I'm in the same boat now, looking for the best way to push that 300RWHP mark for what it's worth. My torque #'s are good though and I will say this. The car has way more testisterone now than it did with stock. Way more.
So, now I'm tossing up the blower vs. NO2 bottle ideas. Haven't decided yet. The bottle scares me a little though. Heard some real horror stories, especially with stock pistons.
So, like your other replies had suggested, you may not see that magical 300RWHP with the Trick Flow H/C/I but you'll get close and you'll notice a HUGE difference in performance.
My .02. Ed

 

[mackey]

I would go with the blower!

When you pump out 300hp with the blower every part you add will net you ALOT more than you expect.

Just an intake change will be a HUGE change.

Then you do full exhaust and you breathe better.

When you finally get a decent set of heads you will love it!

 

[HGFireHazard]

Vortech on the stock longblock generated me great numbers but not so great mileage. I managed 15 mpg constantly before the 3.73s, now I get 14 with approximately 70% freeway driving at 70-75.

The boost is great, but I think a H/C/I might be a little better for you. You will probably fall short (as others have mentioned) of 300 rwhp unless you run some pretty radical stuff, but you can add more stuff later on.

I bought all my stuff new and ended up paying a little over $6k for everything, including upgrading my whole fuel system and getting it tuned. I did the work myself (minus the tune), and I think you can squeeze a H/C/I for cheaper than that.

 

[dstang01]

thank you all for your informative replies, and from what you have all said I will trust my instint and go h/c/i
Im aware that the trickflow setup will fall short of the 300 rwhp mark, but I know the car will respond much better in all areas of the power band and the improvement over stock will be huge (so what it may fall 10 - 20 hp short?)
It will be a semi daily driver (I say semi because I have an old hyundai that gets 30+ mpg when I need it, and a 1990 suburban for going up the mountain and when we get some snow) and the h/c/i will most likely be less finikey than boost. I know the modded car will require more attention than a stock car, but I enjoy maintaining the car so it wont really seem like work. Also, if I outgrow the 280-300 rwhp this setup gives, I could always bolt on a supercharger later (and probably beef up the bottom end a bit) Its a good stepping stone setup. A centri charger would be great to compliment the good low end with some help up top.

So now that Ive decided on a mild h/c/i, what would you all reccomend for me? The trickflow kit seems exactly what im looking for, but is it best to piece together a setup using other parts? Any opinions would be great. Also, what supporting mods will be needed? Headers (long tubes or shortys?), H pipe, cat back, cai, throttle body, larger injectors, etc...

 

[GRGT1994]

If I were you, I'd get a Kenne Belle (coming from someone who did an HCI with full supporting mods and AFM tuning).

With a DD, or partial DD, remember that swapping the heads requires you break a lot of factory seals, a lot. Meaning you have a lot of opportunities for leaks and such. By comparison, a blower is minimally invasive, and with a tune you would have a factory idle and no CEL. And like someone said above, after a blower every little upgrade will bring a huge SOTP impact.

 

[GRGT1994]

Im not saying you're not, but IMO you won't see 300HP outta the trickflow kits. Been on other forums lately checkin it out and several guys with that kit on the stock 302 are seein from 270 to 290 falling short of the 300 mark.

the kit claims 350 dyno proven ponies, but if you check the note, it's on a 306.

...

nothing worse than expecting DYNO PROVEN 350HP and seeing 270-290 with your dyno.

I believe you may be confusing RWHP with FWHP (350 FWHP = 280 to 290 RWHP).

 

[Black95GTS]

For a 300 rwhp street car, is it best to go with a mild h/c/i combo or bolt up a centrifugal and call it a day? The price would probably be similar, but the feel of the car would be alot different.

The car will be a daily driver, and driven mostly on the street. Reliability, torquey powerband, drivability and decent gas mileage are top priority (by decent, i mean around 20 mpg with mixed driving)
I know the 5.0 is choked significantly by stock parts, so throwing a supercharger on there to force air through crap parts probably isnt too efficient. Also, how do the stock parts handle boost? My instinct would be to replace the stock heads with some quality aluminum ones, put on a better intake with a lower powerband, and maybe a b cam or similar (or just go with a trickflow topend kit)... but then i hear of guys bolting up a vortech on a stock engine and having no problems at all. Can anyone shed some light onto this situation? (sorry for another annoying vs. thread.. but opinions might be a little different depending on individual situations)

When questing for HP goals, just remember this.... peak horsepower doesn't move anything except dyno rollers. Average horsepower is what moves a car.

If gas mileage and reliability are priorities, HCI is what you should be looking at.

Adam

 

[99FiveOh]

I put a blower on my car and I was hoping for 300+ to the wheels and got over 400! I beat the crap out of it every day (after tune of course) and it puts a smile on my face every day. I was gonna go with HCI myself, but spending all that money and still not being able to deal with faster ricers like WRX's and EVO's was out of the question!

I bought my kit used for 2K and have about 1K invested in supporting parts and the tune. My biggest problem was getting the PCV system right. I vote to start with a blower and upgrade the rest later on. Besides, the blower just looks cool hanging off the side of your motor!

 

[94-302-vert]

I vote H/C/I with the supporting mods and a good tune... you wil get a fatter torque curve...

Sure a blower is great, but why not start at the engine and work out... better than doing the supercharger and pulling that to do H/C/I shortly after...