36*'s initial timing plus the spout is in...still doesn't detonate WTF!!!!!

[Mike86Stang]

Well as in the one post where I tried to figure out what was wrong with my combination... I tried to give as much info as I could. I even took pics of the wear pattern on the valve stems to check valve train geometry.

It was suggested by a custom cam grinder (Jay Allen) and others that I needed longer push rods to correct my geometry. Jay also suggested this is why my cranking compression is “miles too low” (145psi). I have some adjustable pushrods on order to determine the correct lengther....

Well I checked my car too see what the balancer said compared to TDC.

When the piston just reached TDC it was at 12-13* on the balancer, the piston did not continue downward until well after 10* ATDC so I'm not sure if my balancer is correct or off.

Thinking that 12* was TDC (forgot about piston dwell) I surmised that the 15*’s I was running before was really only 3 degree’s. So I did the math & figured 30* would really be 18*. I’ve been driving around with 36* over the past two days there is still no detonation pinging or anything & it still starts & runs easy… top end feels better but not 100%....still feels lazy.

So here’s the question…. why can I run all this damned timing? is it b/c peak cyl pressure is so low? I'm lost!

Thanks
Mike

 

[giddyup306]

You probably have a worn timing chain. That will retard timing.

 

[Mike86Stang]

Timing chain doesn't even have more than a year on it, and it's a double roller. My stock 70,000K chin didn't have enough slop to be out of spec when I pulled it

 

[tonydalrymple]

Here's my thread from the Corral that might enlighten you a bit as to my similar situation..... If I had hair to begin with, which i don't, it would have been pulled out by now....

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=579898&highlight=timing

Short version? The balancer spun just like two others before it & the ignition module seemed to be about 10 degrees of the problem as well.....

 

[Mike86Stang]

Here's my thread from the Corral that might enlighten you a bit as to my similar situation..... If I had hair to begin with, which i don't, it would have been pulled out by now....

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=579898&highlight=timing

Short version? The balancer spun just like two others before it & the ignition module seemed to be about 10 degrees of the problem as well.....

hey tony,
i followed along with that post & posted in it a couple of times. I'm thinking the balancer has spun, how much I don't know. I'm just curious if it could be something else b/c it doesn't seem to matter where I put the timing on this SOB

mike

 

[tonydalrymple]

hey tony,
i followed along with that post & posted in it a couple of times. I'm thinking the balancer has spun, how much I don't know. I'm just curious if it could be something else b/c it doesn't seem to matter where I put the timing on this SOB

mike

I think you should paint a line across the two halves of the balancer just for general purposes. If the line splits later on or immediately? Either way you will at least have a clue as to what's happened with just a glance with a flashlight.
I would bring #1 up to TDC, mark the balancer with a dab of paint lining up with the timing pointer, drive it for a day, repeat the proceedure & see if the paint mark still lines up with the timing pointer.
If it changes; balancer, sheared pin on the disributor gear, timing chain jumped.
If it's the same; then I'd lean toward electronic issue like the ign module, loose pickup mounting inside of the distributor, etc. Good luck nevertheless!

 

[Mike86Stang]

Awesome thanks tony... may have to pop the dizzy tomorrow morining to take a look at that since it's a 10 minute job. I thought I painted a line on the balancer when I first got it but I don't see the line anymore so I'll have to try that to...

I will say I remeber setting it at 36 the other day & today I checked it again it was at 32-34... so it may be moving.

Thanks for the help I'll post back when I know more. Hopefully I can swing a test & tune & see what happens

 

[HISSIN50]

that was a great post by Tony. i do the same with the line across the balancer rings.

i might also get down there and manhandle the thing - see if you can spin or even move the outer ring by hand (check the elastomer and all that too).

good luck with the ride Mike.

 

[tonydalrymple]

I forgot to mention.... the balancer that slipped on my car & drove me nuts for a week trouble shooting? it was only 6 months old....Yea, a brand new unit to replace the previously spun stock balancer. What I learned on this latest one is that no one, including myself, could visually tell it had spun. The outer ring stayed dead square vesus the obvious "wabble" you could see at an idle when the previous balancer failed.

 

[HISSIN50]

I forgot to mention.... the balancer that slipped on my car & drove me nuts for a week trouble shooting? it was only 6 months old....Yea, a brand new unit to replace the previously spun stock balancer. What I learned on this latest one is that no one, including myself, could visually tell it had spun. The outer ring stayed dead square vesus the obvious "wabble" you could see at an idle when the previous balancer failed.

interesting. how did you know it had spun (deductive reasoning, or a tell tale)? did the elastomer look bad?
(i am just curious)

 

[tonydalrymple]

interesting. how did you know it had spun (deductive reasoning, or a tell tale)? did the elastomer look bad?
(i am just curious)

The before mentioned "painted line" across both the outer ring, across the elastomer, & onto the inner hub. I drove it hard around the block after checking readings at top dead & found the line was now two seperate lines offset from each other afterwards. Not to mention an additional 5 degrees base timing increase.
The elastomer on my SFI steel balancer is so thin; you can barely see it. What you can see of it looks like brand new. Nothing to "give it away' like abrasions, cracking, a little receded or bulging.... nothing.

 

[HISSIN50]

The before mentioned "painted line" across both the outer ring, across the elastomer, & onto the inner hub. I drove it hard around the block after checking readings at top dead & found the line was now two seperate lines offset from each other afterwards. Not to mention an additional 5 degrees base timing increase.
The elastomer on my SFI steel balancer is so thin; you can barely see it. What you can see of it looks like brand new. Nothing to "give it away' like abrasions, cracking, a little receded or bulging.... nothing.

cool, thanks Tony.

Mike, sorry to have gone back and forth with Tony on your thread. my bad.

 

[Mike86Stang]

Hey it's cool Hissin we are all hear to learn.

As a side note I made a positive stop for the pistons last night out of an old spark plug, I just need to clean up the threads & I can check for "true" TDC.

Hopefully I can hit the track this weekend too!