4.0 V6 in the base 05 mustang

[bhuff30]

While many don't like to talk about the base engine/model, it is the biggest seller.
The 4.0l SOHC is based on the old 2.6 german "colonge" V6 which was seen in the early 70's in cars. The engine was bored and stroked, and lost the pushrods to become a 4.0l SOHC which is in the explorer and will be in the 05 mustang. I am fairly shocked that the block is this old, but with a 60* block, and overhead cam, it should be a smooth engine. What do you think? I say it is a big step forward on the 3.8l, but I will have to drive it before I say it should be replaced with something newer... like a duratec.

 

[Koltzy]

I'm with you bhuff30, the engine should be a decent one. Not much talk about it on the forum though. Too many guys wining about "only" 300hp on the V-8. I hate to say it, but the Mustang power characteristics will always be determined by what the market dictates for the primary application for the engine. That is, the Mustang is a pimple on the a$$ of Ford's light duty truck sales, and the engine horsepower will always be dictated by the hp demands of the truck market (for non special edition models that is). We should be thanking the current light truck war for the HP improvements.

With the original Cologne engine being so old, this is very likely a refined engine with alot going for it. It's probably optimized for longevity and performance for all it's worth by now. Unfortunately, there are limitations to how much you can change and update the engine. It has fundamental design features that cannot be altered without a near-complete redesign. I.E. cast iron block does not disipate heat well and limits inexpensive horsepower production for example....

I had the 3.8L in my 99. Never had a problem, and the power wasn't bad. 193hp with 220ft-lb of torque. 29mpg on the highway. But... Power is on the rise everywhere nowadays. 160-200 hp is for 4 bangers these days. 6 cylinders are hanging around at 200-290hp, and V-8's are 300-450. Ford's V-6 needs to get with the program. I for one would like to see variable cam timing on any new car I buy. Power when you need it, gas mileage when you need it. A miser engine and fire breather all in one.

 

[JadeFalcon]

But what you seem to be missing Koltzy is those 200-290hp V6's you speak about ARE the top of the line performance car for that company, unlike the mustang, which V6 is their bottom of the line, and the car is originally intended to have a V8 for performance. Yes, other import cars V6's are making alot more power, but those are the highest performance motors offered.

 

[Koltzy]

But what you seem to be missing Koltzy is those 200-290hp V6's you speak about ARE the top of the line performance car for that company, unlike the mustang, which V6 is their bottom of the line, and the car is originally intended to have a V8 for performance. Yes, other import cars V6's are making alot more power, but those are the highest performance motors offered.

Yeah, I see your point.

I'm sure with the GT being ~300hp they also wouldn't want to compromise their GT sales to the V6 if the hp difference becomes too small. It's likely the profit margin on the GT is much higher.

Just the same, I'd like to think even in the base model that I could dust most "family" cars. Malibus, Impalas, Taurus'es etc are getting about 200hp with the top engine options. I'd prefer the V6 Mustang to get around 230-250hp w/240-250 ft-lb. That would make me happy. I believe even some versions of the 4.0L Cologne engine were around that. The 3.5L Duratec should be right arond the top end of that range for sure.

PK

 

[94SLOWBRA]

The 4.0 sohc has not been without its problems. Numerous timing chain tensioner problems in the explorers. They tend to make rattling noises from this problem. The 4.0 sohc is a decent powermaker, but durability has not been its strong point. They now have a tsb for replacing all the valvesprings due to valve float in which case I guess a few are bending valves. Not my first choice for a base engine, but better than the 3.8 I guess.

On the other hand the duratec 2.5 and 3.0 engines are some of the best engines ford has ever built. These babies put out good strong power, and they even sound good while doing it.(btw the 4.0 sohc sounds pretty good too, much better than the 3.8). These duratec's are amazing, I work at a ford dealer, I do transmissions, my buddy next to me does engines. I almost never, and I do mean NEVER see duratec powered cars in for internal engine problems. The only problem with these engines is they tend to leak oil eventually from the oil pan. That only seems to happen at over 50,000 miles anyway. I really believe these are great engines, and if ford does eventually put these in the mustang, you will have some happy base model buyers.

 

[SVTdriver]

I don't quite know how to take that post. Are you trying tosay that 50k miles is too many for an engine so it's ok if it leaks oil?

It might be nice if the V6 mustang could "dust" most family cars. But At least where I am at I don't see a whole lot of V6 mustangs trying to race anything. Of the V6 buyers I know. The main reason seemed to be price.

 

[94SLOWBRA]

I don't quite know how to take that post. Are you trying tosay that 50k miles is too many for an engine so it's ok if it leaks oil?

It might be nice if the V6 mustang could "dust" most family cars. But At least where I am at I don't see a whole lot of V6 mustangs trying to race anything. Of the V6 buyers I know. The main reason seemed to be price.

I was just saying that the oil leaks is about the only problem these engines have. Compared to major internal engine problem, I don't consider an oil leak a big deal. Just about any engine ford makes(or anybody else for that matter) has a problem with oil leaks eventually.

 

[95ripper]

I have an old version of the 4.0 in my classic truck, (the 2.8 from a Mustang II) and while it is a great little engine for my truck, it is also an old design. With the redesign of the mustang it seems they would have wanted to go with a more modern engine. I totaly agree with 94slowbra, the I would take the 3.0 duratech in a mustang anyday, I have one in my wife's escape, and it runs great, much better than the 3.8 in my '95 stang. I think the 4.0 will be better than the 3.8, but will not compare to the 3.0, and the 3.5 will only be better. It is porbably a little cheaper to put the 4.0 in instead of the duratech since it has been around so long, but they still had to develope it for a car, since it hasn't been in one for a long time, and SOHC has never been in one, and emissions will be totaly different, as well as intake and some accesories. Well that is about enough for my rant, I can't wait to drive one and see what it drives like, it has to be better then the slug of a v6 the 3.8 is.

 

[351CJ]

The 3.0L Duratec as used in the 2003 - 2004 Lincoln LS is a very nice engine. It is smoot and effortlesly revs right to its 7,000 RPM redline. It has VCT and is rated at 232 HP @ 6,750 RPM and 220 HP @ 4,500 RPM. The VCT significantly improved the low RPM torque over the earlier version. However to get this power out of the 3.0 it has a 10.5:1 compression ratio which requires 91 octane gas and it has dual exhaust.

If these #'s are scaled up to 3.5L for the Duratec 35 it implies that 271 HP & 256 lb ft are possible. However on 87 octane gas the #'s would be more like 255 HP & 245 lb ft. The real #'s for the Duratec 35 may be a bit different as I read that it was going to have more emphsis on torque than the 3.0L

 

[Postmortem]

Duratecs are nice and expensive engines. Only top line Taurus and Escapes have them; you can' have LX Taurus with it; only with Premium SE, SES or SEL. They might be one day in Mustangs; but then all Ford engines will be DOHC 4V. One day Ford will have to switch to DOHC completelly because of competition.

 

[351CJ]

Duratecs are nice and expensive engines. Only top line Taurus and Escapes have them; you can' have LX Taurus with it; only with Premium SE, SES or SEL. They might be one day in Mustangs; but then all Ford engines will be DOHC 4V. One day Ford will have to switch to DOHC completelly because of competition.

I don't see this happening. The SOHC 3 valve heads are almost as good as the DOHC 4 valve heads and they are a lot lower cost to manufacture, smaller & lighter weight. Many Mercedes engines are SOHC 3 valve.

The only real advantage of the DOHC heads are that you can independently vary the intake cam timing w/o changing the exhuast timing. Or with BMW's Dual Vanos which varies both intake and exhust timing independently.

DOHC 4V V8's will be used only in top line models.

 

[svtnupe]

The 4.0 sohc has not been without its problems. Numerous timing chain tensioner problems in the explorers. They tend to make rattling noises from this problem. The 4.0 sohc is a decent powermaker, but durability has not been its strong point. They now have a tsb for replacing all the valvesprings due to valve float in which case I guess a few are bending valves. Not my first choice for a base engine, but better than the 3.8 I guess.

On the other hand the duratec 2.5 and 3.0 engines are some of the best engines ford has ever built. These babies put out good strong power, and they even sound good while doing it.(btw the 4.0 sohc sounds pretty good too, much better than the 3.8). These duratec's are amazing, I work at a ford dealer, I do transmissions, my buddy next to me does engines. I almost never, and I do mean NEVER see duratec powered cars in for internal engine problems. The only problem with these engines is they tend to leak oil eventually from the oil pan. That only seems to happen at over 50,000 miles anyway. I really believe these are great engines, and if ford does eventually put these in the mustang, you will have some happy base model buyers.

The Duratecs have had their problems. The most notable issue was spun bearings due to a loss of oil pressure. Their are plenty of 2.5L Duratecs to attest to these facts. Fortunately, Ford has done some things to fix the trouble spots in the oiling system (3L heads have 3 extra drain holes, etc.). Check out fordcontour.org or contour.org to see the number of problems the Duratec has experienced. This is not to say that they aren't great engines. In fact, I'm looking forward to blasting through the gears on my 3L Duratec Contour SVT.

 

[94SLOWBRA]

The Duratecs have had their problems. The most notable issue was spun bearings due to a loss of oil pressure. Their are plenty of 2.5L Duratecs to attest to these facts. Fortunately, Ford has done some things to fix the trouble spots in the oiling system (3L heads have 3 extra drain holes, etc.). Check out fordcontour.org or contour.org to see the number of problems the Duratec has experienced. This is not to say that they aren't great engines. In fact, I'm looking forward to blasting through the gears on my 3L Duratec Contour SVT.

There might be a few out there with some of these problems, but compared to the SOHC 4.0 they are a dream. I can only go by what I see here where I work. And we just don't see them in here. The 2.5 came out before the 3.0 so I would guess ford has taken care of it.

 

[svtnupe]

There might be a few out there with some of these problems, but compared to the SOHC 4.0 they are a dream. I can only go by what I see here where I work. And we just don't see them in here. The 2.5 came out before the 3.0 so I would guess ford has taken care of it.

Yes, they fixed a number of these problems with the 3L Duratec. I have an Explorer ST with the 4L SOHC. So far, not a single problem out of it and as a whole from the member on the mysportrac.com website, the biggest report problem is the timing chain but I haven't read of any engine failures. It seems to be rather solid performer.

 

[rick0636]

Can't believe no one mentioned the 4.0 sohc engine is the top of the line Ranger engine. They will haul butt with it in there too!

 

[jcp123]

ive been behind the 4.0 sohc in an explorer and it seemed like a great engine - smooth, torquey, and reasonably efficient considering what it was powering. should suit the mustang nicely

 

[SpectorV]

they should go with decent performance and above all good reliability and economical in price and gas milage what not. Most base model buyers need somethign dependable, but beign a mustang it should have some decent power in it, at least 230hp and 240tq

 

[rick0636]

I would say the only drawback to this 4.0 sohc for the base mustang engine is how easy or hard is it going to be get more power out of it? We are just now getting an aftermarket for the 3.8 so you can build one up pretty well, but since they have been around so long in the Explorers and the Rangers maybe there already is a decent aftermarket??? I am surprized some of you guys aren't doing some digging on the Ranger/Explorer sites to see. The 3.8 moderator from NH has one in a Ranger right now I believe, he might have some answers on it...

 

[BigBlockStang]

Hi. I would like to comment on the various V6s and also care to speculate a little. First off the 3.8 was a piece of S*@T to begin with when it came out in the early 80s (the first time I saw the write up I wanted to kill the guy who designed it) at the time Busch Grand National Nascar cars used that size motor and we needed to compete with the far superior Buick V6 3.8 Ford ended up designing a race only V6 in order to compete. Sad isn't it.The much older Buick 3.8 V6 is worlds better. And I'm a Ford fan. The 4.0L SOHC motor is excellant but I would think it will have a short future. No it will not be replaced with the high end Duratec DOHC motor. But I would think that a future motor based on the 4.6L or 5.4 3v V8 . New block 60 degree even fire motor. The current 4.0 does not sit well as a motor that will last for long (no shared components with other Ford engines and such) expect it to be replaced with SOHC V6s based on the modular V8 A new 3.45 liter V6 based on the GT motor would produce 225hp @ 6000rpm and 235ft/lbs @ 4500rpm This would be a very good motor for the Ranger Pickup and could share components with a larger 4 liter variant for the F150 the truck motor would likely put out the same Horsepower only at a reduced rpm say 225hp @ 5000rpm and 275ft/lbs @ 3750 rpms Or we could get lucky and get the 4 liter only but still in truck tune. Now that would be sweet. Because this motor would be easily modified to reach 260hp @ 6000rpm and 275ft/lbs @ 4500rpm with cams and a true dual exhaust. Well lets hope Ford heres this because its right up the bean counters alley. And the Mustang crowd could easily get behind it. And technology used on the GT motor will have a (hate to say it)trickle down effect and could be used to spruce up the V6. Well lets hope thats where were headed anyway.

 

[Goat1981]

But what you seem to be missing Koltzy is those 200-290hp V6's you speak about ARE the top of the line performance car for that company, unlike the mustang, which V6 is their bottom of the line, and the car is originally intended to have a V8 for performance. Yes, other import cars V6's are making alot more power, but those are the highest performance motors offered.

Good point. I was thinking for being such a large V-6, the '05 'stang's should be putting somewhere around 240 or 250hp with equal torque, but what you say makes sense.