400 HP AT THE WHEELS ALL MOTOR,"YES"!!
- Thread starter ranger04
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400 RWHP would be nice from a N/A 4.6 for sure, BUT will it be reliable enough to be driven daily with no ill effectsI'd hate to drive it 30K miles a year(such as I do)and have to have it rebuilt every 1-1.5 years.
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I'll let you know when the Sutton heads go on my car. It will be the test mule for the heads. The goal of the car from the start has been a fast, fun daily driver. If I can't seat at a stop light with out giving it some throttle its not a daily drive to me.
Also when it happens and it will happen that we get 400 hp at the wheels all motor, it's not if, it's when. I think it will be quite an accomplishment. 400 hp from a 281 CID engine all motor speaks volumes about the mod motors. We take alot of greif over these engines, but there just now comming into thier own. It's not the point that we out power chevy or dodge, it's what has been done with a 281 CID ford mod motor. If we can do this with a 281, wait untill the 5.0 or 5.8 blocks are out from ford.
kooldawg6
mine works really well and can take a fair amount
The Saleen PJ Jones Edition is the 5.0 302 and puts out 400 HP and 390 TQ. So I second the question as to when, not if.
For years, they have talked about how well the Z motor is built as far as making N/A power per liter. The 3.5 L rated at 306 HP = 87.4 HP/L. The stock Mustang is 65.2 HP/L. For ours to equal the Zs output, it will put the 4.6 at 402 HP. Very achieveable I believe. Figuring the 4.6 has been around since the early-mid '90s, but only 4 years now in the 3v configuration in the Stang, it is still an infant.
For years, they have talked about how well the Z motor is built as far as making N/A power per liter. The 3.5 L rated at 306 HP = 87.4 HP/L. The stock Mustang is 65.2 HP/L. For ours to equal the Zs output, it will put the 4.6 at 402 HP. Very achieveable I believe. Figuring the 4.6 has been around since the early-mid '90s, but only 4 years now in the 3v configuration in the Stang, it is still an infant.
I've either read up on or actually worked on a variety of engines since the 70's.
It's much easier to maintain an engine that goes the FI route as opposed to the hi-compression big cam/heads route. The engine will be more efficient, run cooler use available fuels, require less maintenience than a similar HP engine done the NA way.
We are stuck with the cubes Ford supplies. Best bet is to FI it. If a Chevy boy wants to cry about it, just tell him he can always trick someone into buying his Camaro and save his money and get a better Mustang if he really wants.
Or, if a Camaro boy still cries, is balding and has a little winkie, you know what car Chevy makes especially for him!
Bottom line for best Mustang performance is to SuperCharge that baby and don't look back unless you want to see some Camaro!
It's much easier to maintain an engine that goes the FI route as opposed to the hi-compression big cam/heads route. The engine will be more efficient, run cooler use available fuels, require less maintenience than a similar HP engine done the NA way.
We are stuck with the cubes Ford supplies. Best bet is to FI it. If a Chevy boy wants to cry about it, just tell him he can always trick someone into buying his Camaro and save his money and get a better Mustang if he really wants.
Or, if a Camaro boy still cries, is balding and has a little winkie, you know what car Chevy makes especially for him!
Bottom line for best Mustang performance is to SuperCharge that baby and don't look back unless you want to see some Camaro!
It's not only plausable, it's gonna happen,1ba96gt is the test mule for sutton. Like has been stated, these 3V motors are infants. 400 hp today and tomarrow 400 hp will be old hat, streetable, reliable and boring, 450 will be the new mark. However, somewhere in there should be the limit on a streetable car. I do predict in a little while that 400 hp on the 3V 4.6 will be common and will rival a super charger in this power range. Sutton wants to do it with just heads and cams, but throw in a intake manifold to the mix and 400 to the wheeels will be no more than a bolt on kit. If we could just get a decent manifold released for our motors, cams and heads will make an easy 400 hp and should be cheaper than a SC once all the hype settles down, 'WELL', Cheaper than like a 5,000.00 dollar pro charger anyway.
tom281
New Member
Sorry but I think you're dreaming ranger04, 400rwhp likely won't happen and certainly won't be cheaper than strapping on a blower for $4-5K and having more than 400 at the tires.
The closest that I've seen so far is one of Brenspeed's cars, which put down around 350 with pullies, eH20 pump, longtubes, exhuast, cams, tbody, and every other bolt-on available. Can 50+ rwhp be gained from heads and intake? Maybe but doubtful, and even then add together all the costs from the parts listed above + labor and you're at a ton of cash, plus a car that isn't very streetable by definition.
Anyway we'll see what Sutton comes up with.
The closest that I've seen so far is one of Brenspeed's cars, which put down around 350 with pullies, eH20 pump, longtubes, exhuast, cams, tbody, and every other bolt-on available. Can 50+ rwhp be gained from heads and intake? Maybe but doubtful, and even then add together all the costs from the parts listed above + labor and you're at a ton of cash, plus a car that isn't very streetable by definition.
Anyway we'll see what Sutton comes up with.
anthony05gt
Active Member
We will have to wait and see. I personally have been figuring it would take a big bump in compression along with the heads to get even close to 400 at the wheels, and that would be way more clams than a blower kit.
Well, we allready have Suttons test mule running around here some place. Heads and cams shouldn't cost no 5 grand. However, I allways figured we would need a new intake mannie to make it happen and that could bump the price. Sutton says no, gonna do it with heads and cams only. We could stand to have the compression bumped up a hair, thats no biggy depending on how much. As soon as Suttons mule gets the heads bolted on, we can see how close we are, or are not.
kooldawg6
mine works really well and can take a fair amount
Heads, cams and labor could easily reach $5K. I know the 400 RWHP will be met in N/A form, but may just be a reality for those drag racers who want to go on motor only. I guess the only advantage of the N/A route will be weight savings over the F/I kits. If that's the case I need to start socking money away soon for a turbo in about 4-5 years
kooldawg6
mine works really well and can take a fair amount
anthony05gt
Active Member
Cams will kill bottom end power and drivability. All that hp increase from cams will be upper/mid and top end power.
billfisher
Active Member
all ford has to do is put the 5.4 3v in aussie trim, or the boss 5.4 4v n/a. so it isn't like there are no bigger more powerful motors available. ford just won't use what they have.
aussie 5.4 3v= 324hp/365tq
aussie 5.4 4v= 385hp/365tq.
and they are certifiable. that's the real question.
aussie 5.4 3v= 324hp/365tq
aussie 5.4 4v= 385hp/365tq.
and they are certifiable. that's the real question.
billfisher
Active Member
we have a twin screw 6l GTO here. he is on top to stay. also a centri c5 Z06.
so we really do need cubes and heads that flow 270+ stock.
so we really do need cubes and heads that flow 270+ stock.
