4th month in a row of lackluster Mustang sales

[Jason Dean]

Agreed. I waited to get my 05 in mid-October to get a good deal here in FL. That's the only way I could get any reasonable negotiation done. At the various dealerships I shopped, the sticker price was also appx. $1K higher for 06's vs. 05's with the exact same options. And in FL, forget about getting any deal on a 'vert.

I used Ford's online dealer inventory search to help narrow down my options, and it was a BIG help. I checked my car (they list by VIN) the day after I purchased and it was already out of inventory. It was there the day of purchase.

Oh, and this was good for a chuckle: Freedom Ford has two GT's (not Mustang's) with "Painted Racing Stripes" as $5,000 options. Guess that sounds better than "Glaringly Obvious Profit Item."

Yeah, I got mine in October. The dealership I went to here in Atlanta had quite a few 06 Mustang GT's on the lot, and several black ones, which is what I was looking for. They even did X-Plan for me. It helped that a friend of mine had just gotten X-Plan on a new GT from another dealership in town.

 

[srothfuss]

My thoughts on the poor sales figures:

The new mustang has now earned the reputation for a long wait [for delivery] of the car that you order from the factory. That is killing a lot of sales. Who wants to wait for a V-8 for 6 months? Some of you did, but most of America has a buy it now mentality. Roll that in with the decline in the consumer confidence [Retail Spending Forecast] and you have a sales slump.

I myself am waiting until 2008 for ford to work out the bugs in the car and allow for "population" of the new Mustang in customer hands before I buy...

 

[Mickey21]

As I pointed out the last time around on this topic, that is not correct.
The montly sales #s as reported by Ford, GM, etc. are actual customer deliveries of cars sold by the dealres, NOT dealer orders.

Oh because you pointed it out last time. That clears it up for me, anyone else need any more concrete evidence?

Actually 131,000 Mustangs / year is not good.
Let's look at some past year's sales:
2003: 140,350
2002: 138,356
2001: 169,198
2000: 173,676
1999: 166,915
1998: 147,587

All that $$ to develop the new Mustang and it's not selling as well as the old one?

Problem is in your fuzzy math, your not talking about year end sales figures as these numbers are. You are talking about the monthly sales figures and trying to extrapolate what it would be if every month were like this month in question. Last I checked 2005 hadnt ended yet... End of story... You can assume all you want and try to predict what the final number is, but in my opinion the car is selling fine... You can doomsday talk all you want...

Again, the point I'm making is that a lot of dealers are still pretending that there are shortages of Mustangs, when in reality Ford is manufacturing many more Mustangs each month that are being sold.

Fact of the matter is that you havent visited every dealership and how their act of "pretending" is going on... You are generalizing them based on hearsay and improbable substantial personal sampling on your part...

In short, though you might like to use figures to attempt to back up your predictions, they are still predictions and not fact... I only say that your prediction is a little slanted... Your quoted facts and numbers are not very relational. I didnt see you post an overall car sales figures in this region to relationship the trend of overall sales of cars... So if all ford cars sales or all car sales in the US went up or down, how did this play into the actual gains or losses on the part of Ford in Mustang sales...

In looking at the bigger picture, world events, trends, etc, it seems to me and at least others here that the sales of the car are on target and healthy.

 

[Mickey21]

131K sold is a lot! Well Mickey you do know thay only made 15K GTOs for 04 and 05. It is not a high volumn car. Now, GM could have marketed the GTO better but they still would have only sold the 15K each year faster. They could have also released them at a better time during the year as to not let the end of the 04s mix with the early 05s but they have to deal with Australia and getting them overm via boat then rail.

My comment was not at all meant to be derogatory towards the GTO. It is a fine car and minus what I would consider bland styling, the car is a real winner. Several times I have considered buying one at some of the good pricing going on lately.

With that said, yes the car is "marketed" as a low volume seller, but dont think for a minute that GM wouldnt have been happier selling more of them than they did (not that I think you are that naive). Even for low volume positioned cars, 15K in sales is quite low, and probably around 25% lower than they would have been happy with selling over the same period of time. Hence the slashing of the prices and incentives offered on the car.

But my point was to say that for a muscle car, the Mustang is selling quite healthy and no where near the signs of going the way of "what some other not to be named muscle cars" have gone...

 

[351CJ]

Oh because you pointed it out last time. That clears it up for me, anyone else need any more concrete evidence?

So you're mad at me because you don't understand how Ford reports its sales #s, or what Ford considers a "sale"?

From media.ford.com

DEARBORN, Mich., November 1 – U.S. consumers purchased 199,847 new vehicles from Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo dealers in October

Please, I beg of you, call Ford media relations and ask them exactly what Fords monthly sales #s are. You will find that they are actual customer deliveries, NOT dealer orders.

Problem is in your fuzzy math, your not talking about year end sales figures as these numbers are. You are talking about the monthly sales figures and trying to extrapolate what it would be if every month were like this month in question. Last I checked 2005 hadnt ended yet... End of story... You can assume all you want and try to predict what the final number is, but in my opinion the car is selling fine... You can doomsday talk all you want...

Well, if my math is fuzzy, then it appears that you want to completly throw facts and arithmetic out the window and simply declare " Mickey21 says the Mustang is selling great, so ignore the facts".

The fact is that with only 2 months left in 2005, the actual year end sales #s can be closely predicted (how many statistics and probabilty courses have you taken?). In calendar year 2005 the Mustang will sell about 160,000 units, not bad, but not great. 2005 will end up being only the 21st best year for Mustang sales.

But more important is the fact, that while from Feb 06 to June 05 Mustang sales were very good, sales have slid over the last 4 months. That's a fact NOT opinion.

In short, though you might like to use figures to attempt to back up your predictions, they are still predictions and not fact... I only say that your prediction is a little slanted... Your quoted facts and numbers are not very relational. I didnt see you post an overall car sales figures in this region to relationship the trend of overall sales of cars... So if all ford cars sales or all car sales in the US went up or down, how did this play into the actual gains or losses on the part of Ford in Mustang sales...

You are fillibustering. Ford's sales problems are rooted in trucks & SUVs. Ford SUV sales have tanked, down 50% over the last few months. Sales of SUVs have nothing to do with the Mustang. Customers are now buying more cars instead of SUVs so if anything, the low SUV sales should have resulted in a boost in Mustang sales.

The simple fact is for 4 straight months (1/3 of a year) Mustang sales have not been very good. The Mustang is supposed to be a hot new model. It did have great sales for a few months this spring, but sales have cooled off, and that's a fact.

 

[jfischer]

Again, the point I'm making is that a lot of dealers are still pretending that there are shortages of Mustangs, when in reality Ford is manufacturing many more Mustangs each month that are being sold.

If you want a V6 they are plentiful. GTs (at least in Denver) are still very rare on dealer lots. If they had made more GTs and less V6s, sales might be better as well, as the supply of GTs seems to indicate that there aren't enough yet to meet demand.

 

[Doc GTO]

My comment was not at all meant to be derogatory towards the GTO. It is a fine car and minus what I would consider bland styling, the car is a real winner. Several times I have considered buying one at some of the good pricing going on lately.

With that said, yes the car is "marketed" as a low volume seller, but dont think for a minute that GM wouldnt have been happier selling more of them than they did (not that I think you are that naive). Even for low volume positioned cars, 15K in sales is quite low, and probably around 25% lower than they would have been happy with selling over the same period of time. Hence the slashing of the prices and incentives offered on the car.

But my point was to say that for a muscle car, the Mustang is selling quite healthy and no where near the signs of going the way of "what some other not to be named muscle cars" have gone...

I didn't think you where being derogatory at all. The Australian plant only had the ability to make about 15-18K units for the U.S. That was the initial estimate. They ended up making 15011 units with the last 500 as the Pulse Red 40th version. GM did screw up the release dates and forced the discounts to push the 04s as to get ready for the 05s. To late of a release for the 04 in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned the sales for the Mustang are through the roof and still pretty good even though the fuel prices are crappy for any V-8 model.

 

[Alec]

Am I the only one that doesn't think the GTO is bland? I like my cars to be stylish and that car fits the bill.
You won't look like a "boy racer" when you show up at work, as a matter of fact they should make a spoiler delete option.
I mean look at all these body kits out for the 05+ they all look like rice. The I was all excited about the Shelby it until I saw all that crap they tacked on to it. NICE CLEAN LINES thats the way to go, none of that fender flare, wing, ricer crap. That's MHO.

And the Gt's are headed south for the winter. There are quite a few in Texas.
If you want one without a damn spoiler your gonna to have to order.crapola

 

[srothfuss]

Am I the only one that doesn't think the GTO is bland? I like my cars to be stylish and that car fits the bill.
You won't look like a "boy racer" when you show up at work, as a matter of fact they should make a spoiler delete option.
I mean look at all these body kits out for the 05+ they all look like rice. The I was all excited about the Shelby it until I saw all that crap they tacked on to it. NICE CLEAN LINES thats the way to go, none of that fender flare, wing, ricer crap. That's MHO.

I kind of like the GTO's. They sleeper look really appeals to me (plus the cops don't pick up on the car right away either) Sometimes, it's better to blend in. Besides, there is a redesign of the exterior sheetmetal coming for 2008. Got to give the GTO some credit... I think DOC's car is quite possibly the ultimate street car.

I totally agree with you that Ford messed up with the Shelby dress up bits. The guys in the 5.0 section didn't understand why I thought the new cobra looks like a small tank. At least now, I am not the only one! (Thanks)


What ever happened to the mustang comercials? I kind of miss them.

 

[XStanger]

No arguement, I have posted several times on other topics asking about Mustang availability that the dealers areound me have few GTs but they have V6s stacked up on their lots 5 rows deep. Ask yourself why aren't the V6s selling?

We are not selling the Conv.'s because Vegas is not exactly a conv. climate. It is way to hot, then 1 mo of great weather, and by the time Dec. gets here it will be too cold. Like I said we only have 8 v6 coupes.

I don't see how dealers are still puting mark up on (btw, the dealership I work at never placed any mark ups/stripes...... on any 05/06 models), a dealership here in town has over 10 GTs in stock with no mark ups at all.

I agree with you about killing the sales if the mark up stays. In reference to your t-bird comment, we had a family come in the other day that had bought 5 02' birds(yes 5, and paid 8,000 over for each when they came out), consequently they just about passed out when they saw that we were selling them now for thousands under msrp!

 

[LIZARDKING]

about those GTOs, is it just me or do all Pontiacs look the same?

 

[93 teal terror]

If I could get a no/minimal optioned 05/06 gt for 22-23k I would buy one tomorrow, but the fact is dealers still have their nose up in the air and wont even let me test drive a gt. All the paint protectant, stripe package crap is gay and definatly not worth the 2-3k they try to charge.

 

[jfischer]

I went out looking today at 3 large Ford dealerships.

The first one had no GTs at all, a few V6s.

The second one had one GT, Automatic, at $3K over MSRP, fair amount of V6s.

The third one had two GTs, both automatics, at $3K over MSRP, V6's out the wazoo.

Apparently here in Denver the supply is still short enough to try to rape buyers for $3K over MSRP, but I don't want one that badly yet...

 

[351CJ]

We are not selling the Conv.'s because Vegas is not exactly a conv. climate. It is way to hot, then 1 mo of great weather, and by the time Dec. gets here it will be too cold. Like I said we only have 8 v6 coupes.

I don't see how dealers are still puting mark up on (btw, the dealership I work at never placed any mark ups/stripes...... on any 05/06 models), a dealership here in town has over 10 GTs in stock with no mark ups at all.

I agree with you about killing the sales if the mark up stays. In reference to your t-bird comment, we had a family come in the other day that had bought 5 02' birds(yes 5, and paid 8,000 over for each when they came out), consequently they just about passed out when they saw that we were selling them now for thousands under msrp!

Thanks for making some comments back on my original topic.

I did not start this topic to slam Mustangs. I'm a Mustang owner and a Mustang fan. Nor did I really want to go off topic responding to personal attacks on my credibility.

The reason for for starting this topic was that I've been tracking the S197 Mustang sales and after 3 months of spectacular sales (March, April & May), sales of the 05 ( & now 06) Mustangs have dropped significantly, to the level where for the last 4 consecutive months sales of the 05 & 06 are running below the old 99 - 04 Mustang.

My thought was "Lets kick around some ideas as to why this has happened." After all I'm sure there are Ford people who read this. I'm also sure they are closely watching the sales #s and are interested in our thoughts as to what is going on.

Several people responded with their thoughts as to why the sales are slowing. In my initial post I lambased greedy dealers who are adding dealer markups. After thinking about this some more, there rarely is a single simple answer. It's more likely to be a combination of several factors. Here is a core dump on my thoughts as to possible explanations for what is going on.

1. Ford screwed up the V6-V8 product mix. Although Ford used historic Mustang V6-V8 sales (68% V6, 32% V8) to plan the 05 build mix. But someone at Ford forgot that with the old Mustang a lot of those V6s were to rental and other fleet customers. With the 05 Stang, Ford intentionally reduced the rental & fleet sales but did not adjust the V6-V8 build mix to better match what retail sales actually are. Although in the spring of 05 the GT build % was upped to 38%, the damage had already been done, creating a lingering shortage of GTs that is holding down Mustang sales.

2. Dealer mark ups. Dealers are taking advantage of the situation with greedy markups. This has turned a lot of people off which has resulted in delayed purchases, if not permanently lost Mustang customers.

3. Ford has screwed up the Vert - Coupe build mix by building too many Verts. I live in the cold northeast which is not good Vert county. Like LasVegas the dealers have more verts than they can possibly sell. Was building too many verts just a Ford marketing blunder, or a more sinister plan to increase Mustang profits since the verts are more profitable?

4. Only the die hard Mustang crazies are going to order and wait months for a GT. Most customers end up buying on impulse. If the Mustang they want is not sitting on a dealer's lot, they won't buy. Result, permanently lost Mustang sales.

5. Dealers who are not accepting A-Z plan purchases, or even worse have told customers they will take a plan sale but then back out of it. Again, more lost sales.

6. No matter what they do, the US auto manufacturers are history. Many consumers may think a Mustang is cool, but they have permanently switched to buying imports (rightly or wrongly) and will never again buy a domestic brand (Ford, GM or Chrysler).

7. As cool as the 05/06 Mustang looks, the new Mustang is not in step with today's consumers. Sure there are Mustang crazies who will keep buying Mustangs as long as they are made, but the # of Mustang crazies is shrinking. The Mustang (as most Ford brand cars) is sorely lacking the comforts and amenities that consumers are demanding on cars today such as overall vehicle comfort and ride, heated seats, stability control, climate control, power passenger's seat, more adjustable power driver's seat, NAV system, HID headlamps, good quality leather, etc.

8. Ford blew it with the V6. I don't care how much torque the 4.0L has, most customers barely understand HP let alone torque. With most Asian manufactures selling 260 - 300 HP V6s, the 220 HP Mustang V6 seems like an under acheiver. In addition, with the reduction in fleet sales, the V6 needs more creature comforts (see item 7) to compete with its Asian and European competition.

9. The auto market has become so segmented and consumers want so badly to drive something "different" that no matter how great a Mustang Ford builds, it's sales #s will continue to shrink because today's staus symbol is to drive something different. Consumers just don't want to be seen in the same vehicle that their neighbors are driving. The days of being cool driving the same car as your friend drives have long passed.

10. The 2 door coupe & vert market is dead. While the Mustang dominates this market segment, the Mustang is an anomoly, a vestage of yesterday that will continue to decline in sales no matter how good a Mustang Ford makes. After all, look at all the other 2 door cars that have fallen by the wayside.

11. Sticker shock. The core customer base for the Mustang has always been the working stiff. But with real wages after inflation constant if not declining for the average worker, the price creep on the Mustang has priced out a significant portion of its customer base.

12. No rebates. The consumer has been trained to wait for a great deal if they are buying an American vehicle. Since there are no rebates on the Mustang and it is unlikely that there will be any incentives on Mustangs as long as dealers still demand MSRP or MSRP + dealer markup, customers are waiting for a "deal".

13. Retro is over. As cool as most of us Mustang people think the S197 Mustang is, we are an anmoly that is out of touch with mainstream taste in America. The market for Retro is small and is limiting Mustang sales.

14. I'll just wait for the next Special Edition. We all know that there are SEs in the works. Why get a Mustang just like everyone else's (see item 9). I don't need a new car right now, I'll just sit tight and wait to see what SEs come out over the next couple years.

15. Ford has really screwed up with its allocation method. Too many Mustangs are going to the big high pressure, high markup dealers. My local small Ford dealer can't even order me the Mustang I want.

So what do you guys think? I'm not saying any of those above items are true or correct. I'm just throwing them out as possible reasons why sales have slowed.

 

[LIZARDKING]

In some sense what you say is true.

The verts are way overpriced. 35K for a 06 GT vert at my local Ford dealer. Look at what 35k will buy you in an import.

When I was in my teens-20s I dreamed of owning a Mustang because it was a symbol of the American muscle car. Today people in that age group (for the most part) want a tuner car, made in Japan.

I think the V6 was a good call, there has always been a base model Mustang, and they have always sold well.

True the V6-V8 mix seems way off, but with the price gorging I dont know that they could have sold many more GTs.

There are many more car manufacturers
and many more models to choose from than there were in the 60s-70s-80s.

The Mustang is a nich car, no doubt about it. I had a 03 Focus, if they had put the 2.5 tec out of the Cougar in it, I would still have it. 200hp, room for 4 people.

A typical family isnt going to spend 20k+ for a car that holds 2 people. Our kids are grown, so it wasnt an issue for us. I bought the Mustang because Ive always owned Mustangs, but I considered a 350Z, Mazda8, and a used 3000GT VR4.

The best selling cars in the US typically are the Accord and Camry. They each sell around 400,000 a year. I dont think Mustang sales will ever top 200,000 a year, 125-175,000 sales a year is a pretty solid performer in the competitive sales enviroment the US auto makers are in.

Im keeping my 05 for the long haul. I will add something else down the road, but I like it and see no reason to shop for a replacement.

 

[jfischer]

I went to a 4th dealer tonight, and they had one GT manual at $5K over MSRP. I was able to get them down to MSRP, but it was still a $30,000 car.

I also looked at a 2005 GTO for $30,000. For $30K, the GTO is a better value IMHO. I guess it felt to me that for the same price, the GTO was a lot more car than the Mustang. But that's just my opinion.

For what the GT is, I'd be willing to pay in the $25K range, but not $30K+. $1,200 for a subwoofer in the trunk is also a bit exhorbitant. Had the GT not had that $1,200 option I still might have bought it tonight at MSRP

I agree with you that I think Ford built way too many V6 models and not enough GTs. Most lots here in Denver have tons of V6 models, but little or no GTs. You can't sell what you don't have...

 

[Alec]

#6
#10
#11
And you know I'm right....
Are you in marketing? If not give 'em a call you lazy bastard
I guess I should :ZipIt: HuH???

 

[351CJ]

I also looked at a 2005 GTO for $30,000. For $30K, the GTO is a better value IMHO. I guess it felt to me that for the same price, the GTO was a lot more car than the Mustang. But that's just my opinion.

For what the GT is, I'd be willing to pay in the $25K range, but not $30K+.

Good thoughts.
I had a similar thought and was going to include this item:

15. The Mustang GT does not have competitive performance. For about the same amount of $$, you can buy a new GTO which will smoke a Mustang GT. Or for 1/2 the $$ you can buy a used LS1 Camaro / Firebird which are faster.

I did not include #5 because I can make these arguments against #15:

a. Mustang GT production is still almost sold out. There are very few in stock on dealer lots. For the most part if you want a Mustang GT, you have to order and wait.

b. GTO sales are very small compared to even the Mustang GT - 13,000 GT0s / year vs 55,000 Mustang GTs, so the GTO can't be stealing many Mustang GT sales.

c. Not that many people are going to cross shop a 3+ year old used car (Camaro / Firebird ) with a new car.

But I'd imagine that the Mustang has lost some sales to both the GTO and used F body LS1s.

 

[Shaggydog2000]

I went along with my friend to help her look at cars. She would be driving a brand new v6 mustang right now if it had a better interior. Compared to the other cars we drove, she found it fun to drive, maybe a bit big for her, but the interior was way behind those of other cars we drove in it's price range (Mistubishi Eclipse, Acura RSX, Hyundai Tiburon). Even the Pontiac G6 had a better interior, and that's one of the worst cars I've ever driven. Now I liked a lot of stuff about the new mustangs, we both did, and I hated to agree with her, but it was true. It's a lot better than the interior on my 2000 Stang, but it has light years to catch up with the foreign makers, or even most of the domestic ones. I don' even think it's a matter of money, just selection of some different materials, better placement of everything, just effort really. She ended up with the RSX, which has it's flaws as well, and I would never have bought because at 6'2" I barely fit in it, but has a fantastic, if minimalist, interior.

So that's one sale they lost, and I bet there are a lot more people who made a similar decision. The "either you like mustangs or you don't, so just shut up" argument is not going to help Mustangs get any better or Ford stay in business. All the american car companies have been losing sales because they are putting out inferior product, but the turn-around at Dodge and Chrysler has been dramatic. A lot of the cars that they have designed and built since the Daimler takeover/merger have been great, well built cars, and sell much better than the enormously crappy,poorly designed cars that preceded them. I mean, you had to remove the front wheel on my Mom's Sebring to get at the battery? That's just stupid.

The GM and Ford products I've seen over the last few years have been inferior for the most part to their competitors. Dodge and Chrysler were as well, but the minute Daimler came in and put an emphasis on solid design all around, and imported some design team work, the products got better without jumping drastically in price. I think Ford and GM can do this too, it just takes effort and and an emphasis on making great priducts, not good enough ones. I think the Mustang only needs a few minor changes (unlike that G6, which just needs about everything changed), and it will be a killer product.

 

[D.Hearne]

Here's my take on Mustang sales, Ford COULD have sold at least one more unit, months ago, IF they had bothered to build it. STILL WAITING on the GT I ordered 6 months ago. GREAT customer service, Ford. I guess they still live by ol' Henry's motto, You can have any car you want, as long as you take what THEY choose to build for you.