5.0 vs LS1

[Yellow2002GT]

Now you may be able to teach me something when it comes to this, but the 4.6 modulars (including the 5.0) never really responded that well to h/c/i....atleast in comparison to the LS-series and how they respond. Has this changed since the 3Valve came out? Do you really think outside of a blower/turbo that there is a lot of power to be made?


What does a cam swap on the 05+ GT's result in?

The key with these Modular engines is CR.....they respond more with CR than any other cars that I have played with mostly because of the design of the OHC and their tight tollerences.....the heads are the weak point of the 2V in stock form.....ported they respond very well and produce a broad power and TQ curve with the right cam combo......not bad for 281 CI's......compared to the old shock 5.0 the 4.6 can rev and peak higher whick makes up for the slight loss in TQ but will add alot of top end power.......the 3v is an awsome designed head from the factory and when ported flow close to the same as the 4V's ported....but with more bottem end flow numbers.....I have seen stock ported heads for a 3v with a stage II cam push 380hp......and a few companies are claiming 400 now.......I am staying 2v for now as I just Purchased the TFS 44cc heads from Fox Lake and Ron will port the runners for me........they will flow 260cfm without touching the bowls......very impressive......the modulars produce a great average HP and thats what makes them fun to drive.......

"ED"

 

[rock4451]

I just realized you had a notchback. NICE. I have always wanted one of those. I have seen many weighed under 3000# too. That's a 500-700# weight advantage on me and good for .5 -.7 10ths at the track or 40-70HP on motor. So if you are at 260 or whatever rwhp, that brings you right up to stock LS1 before mods. I wouldn't call that slow at all and a car to be proud of. Let the other peeps drive themselves crazy chasing numbers as there will always be a faster car. It comes down to what YOU like. Its way faster than most cars, slower than others. What are we supposed to do have the fastest car on the planet? Where does it end? :SNSign:

thanks for the compliment, and you're right when you say where does it end. as far as my neck of the woods (town of 3100 east of stL) there aren't many fast cars roamin around, so i hold my own around here. i think now that i've driven a notch, i could never drive a fox that wasn't a notch. right now, though, she's for sale as i'm on the prowl for a reasonable 96-98 cobra. the notch is nice but no a/c and my brother's past experience w/ cobras kinda swayed me to that neck of the woods. i will undoubtedly return to the fox world, eventually. and you're right my car may not be the fastest on the planet but it made me happy


and as far as the e-thug poster above, lol, i realized how e-thuggish i sounded after i left my post up there...

 

[Pokageek]

thanks for the compliment, and you're right when you say where does it end. as far as my neck of the woods (town of 3100 east of stL) there aren't many fast cars roamin around, so i hold my own around here. i think now that i've driven a notch, i could never drive a fox that wasn't a notch. right now, though, she's for sale as i'm on the prowl for a reasonable 96-98 cobra. the notch is nice but no a/c and my brother's past experience w/ cobras kinda swayed me to that neck of the woods. i will undoubtedly return to the fox world, eventually. and you're right my car may not be the fastest on the planet but it made me happy


and as far as the e-thug poster above, lol, i realized how e-thuggish i sounded after i left my post up there...

It spreads.. One person gets their feathers ruffled even when the originating person is not hostile. Then the games begin. :OT:

If they really are a total jerk, you can't win at arguing bc they have a lot more practice than you. Then you go back and look at your post and say...man, that doesn't sound like me.

I try not to let someone goad me into being a hole no matter how offensive or evil their intent may be. Even if they go as far as slamming/making fun of your combo. Jerks have all kinds of tools and they are well practiced. On many forums, they start offensive right out of the gate on you, that's why I like this forum. The disease is less spread around here, lol. And sometimes people actually get the message and back off!

 

[rock4451]

couldn't agree more. arguing on here is not my thing...and the ppl on here who's opinion i actually take into consideration have actually been really helpful:SNSign:

 

[Pokageek]

Interestingly the OP posted once and then never responded.. I guess he planted the seed and just watched the beautiful flower grow,

 

[Yellow2002GT]

LOL, yea...there are alot of them types on the forums.....I had a 19 y/o talking crap about me and **** to all my friends.....went to hang out one time at the hot spot and he showed up........heard I was there and left...lol.....he told everyone he would kick my ass........I am 15 years older than him and never said a word to him other than told him he was wrong about something on the forums.....it was funny......his friends e-bitched slapped him on the forums after that......I hate people who try to e-thug on-line....it is pointless and immature...

"ED"

 

[rock4451]

haha that's funny, the young ones get so defensive

 

[revhead347]

um, i'm not following your argument.

power is defined to be torque*rpm/5252. one can't measure power, one measures torque and then calculates the power based on the rpm when the torque was measured. so mathematically, the higher the torque at whatever rpm you care to look at, the higher the power. isn't it obvious that power is 100% dependent on torque? so how can you say that power is the value that is important and say torque is meaningless? when in reality, torque is the ONLY number that matters, whether you are talking about acceleration, power or et.

i guess what you are really trying to say is that YOU personally don't care about the torque below 3000 rpm, because you are rarely below that because you race at the track. and that is fine by me. we clearly want different things from our cars.

i am (and have been all along) coming from the other perspective ... i never go to the track, i always cruise around town. i always launch from idle and rarely go above 4000 rpm. a high revving bottle fed monster is not even close to what i want from my car.

and now for something completely different ...

want massive low rpm torque?

Leno?s Tank Car Gets Twin Turbos - Popular Mechanics

810hp at 2800rpm and 1560 torque at 2400rpm

and it is now twin turboed ...

Yeah, I guess I didn't word that the way I wanted to. Torque is important, but from a mathematical, power is the determining factor, and the ultimate goal. If you have two equal weight cars, and they both make the same average hp in their respective power bands, they should be equally fast, regardless of torque. So, for example, if you have an engine that makes an average hp of 400 between 5K-7K and a peak torque value of 300 at 4K, and another engine that makes an average hp of 400 between 4K and 6K and a peak torque value of 500 at 3K, they should both be about the same at the track. This why there are 8 second front wheel drive 4 cylinder cars out there.

Kurt

 

[Pokageek]

Yeah, I guess I didn't word that the way I wanted to. Torque is important, but from a mathematical, power is the determining factor, and the ultimate goal. If you have two equal weight cars, and they both make the same average hp in their respective power bands, they should be equally fast, regardless of torque. So, for example, if you have an engine that makes an average hp of 400 between 5K-7K and a peak torque value of 300 at 4K, and another engine that makes an average hp of 400 between 4K and 6K and a peak torque value of 500 at 3K, they should both be about the same at the track. This why there are 8 second front wheel drive 4 cylinder cars out there.

Kurt

Well said. I prefer the one in bold and again I am not faulting anyone who doesn't match that. It's just my preference. Still I am impressed with Stopsign's combo between the High HP to c.i. ratio and the 6-speed/rear gearing. I think it was well thought out and has to be a cool car to drive. I chose to go bigger c.i. to get to that same number and a tamer combination. My low end comes from the engine and his comes from the gearing. I forget where he hits his HP number and I dont have a latest dyno myself but I'd be curious how broad his TQ curve is vs mine for kicks. The only reason I am comparing is because its two totally different mindsets in terms of setup.

 

[Pokageek]

Look. I bought a Ford because I like the total package BETTER. This is not rwhp.net, this is "stangnet" even tho many on here are consumed with rwhp more than the car as a total package. :SNSign:

THAT being said.. I don't think anyone on here mentioned the LS1 engine has a greater rwhp capacity in terms of the block - closer to the cobra motor I guess. Even greater capacity than the 351W block. So if you build up the 5.0 to the hp numbers mentioned here with LS1 or 351 strokers, you WILL blow it up and be wasting your money. The max I would go personally is 400rwhp on a 5.0 block. That's under my desired power-level or right at it so that's why I didn't go 5.0. I think the TQ on the 5.0 is pretty good but the LS1 is going to have more simply bc it is more c.i. just like my engine is showing much more low end than the LS1.

Now back to FORD. I think the 351w is the best solution in terms of cost, capability, compatibility and name-brand loyalty. The 351w simply makes up for the many holes that today's technology puts in the 5.0 IF you are going for those bigger numbers.

 

[Snketr]

I have a 99 ws6 . And get 20 mpg city and 28 mpg on the freeway doing 75 mph. 328 rwhp bone stock with 109,000 mi just replaced the clutch for the first time . and I eat rice and ponies . My friend has a 98 saleen supercharged 351 500 rwhp . 8000 original mi . Minus the 5 th clutch. He will smoke me on the freeway 75 and up .but will never catch me in the 1/4 mile or off the line ever I have even gave him a two car start . No traction in the first 3 gears . So it does not matter how much power you have if you can't hook up . Inless you are on the autobahn. Thank you

 

[d98gt]

This is from 2009.

 

[99FiveOh]

I have a 99 ws6 . And get 20 mpg city and 28 mpg on the freeway doing 75 mph. 328 rwhp bone stock with 109,000 mi just replaced the clutch for the first time . and I eat rice and poop ponies . My friend has a 98 saleen supercharged 351 500 rwhp . 8000 original mi . Minus the 5 th clutch. He will smoke me on the freeway 75 and up .but will never catch me in the 1/4 mile or off the line ever I have even gave him a two car start . No traction in the first 3 gears . So it does not matter how much power you have if you can't hook up . Inless you are on the autobahn. Thank you

You want a medal or something? So what, you're friend doesn't know how to pilot that rocket ship called an S351? In the correct hands that S351 would annihilate your little LS1 powered Fireturd. Granted Ford let us down with the 5.0 that sits between the strut towers of 94/95 GT's and Cobras, but the S351 is a different animal. And I'll go on record and say flat out that I don't believe your story and I wanna see a video or it NEVER HAPPENED! Thank you!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Reviving anear 2 1/2-year old thread, just to tell eveyone here how vastly superior your GM is??

Smells a little like troll to me?

 

[screamin5oh]

lol, f-bodys are great cars and i cannot say they are any worse or better then our mustangs. its all a matter of preference, i have owned both and always come back to mustangs because i just have more fun with them, and i dont have a mullet, but i will say that you cannot compare a ls1 to a 5.0 in stock form, but i will say you can make a 5.0 car faster for cheaper. those ls1's get way to expensive to build, sure bolt ons for bolt ons we lose, but who stays at bolt on level anymore? oh yea and another thing camaros look like poop, the trans am is pretty sexy tho when done right, how about comparing the ls1 to the new 5.0?? lol game over thats what they did to us is compare new to old,

 

[99FiveOh]

There are things that will always make me choose a Mustang over an F body: I can see over the dashboard, I can replace my headers from the top of the engine, my passenger has a nice flat place to put his or her feet, and I have TRUE dual exhaust. Do these things add up to superior horsepower? Not a chance, but they are just as important to build quality IMHO. Ford has always built cars sturdier than GM has and now Ford finally matches that quality with HP to boot!

I imagine in time we'll be seeing "Coyote 5.0 in F body" threads pop up on their forums much like the LSX engine in a Mustang threads here.

 

[FastDriver]

Threads like this really don't have a whole hell of a lot of potential to add. Digging it up from 2 years ago to say that your slower car outruns a faster one is only going to start the same S(*& over again.