5.0 vs LS1
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More money than brains would be my opinion?
exactly whats the point of taking out an 03/04 cobra engine. Maybe I can sell him some ocean beach front property in Utah
I honestly don't see the point of buying an 03'/04' Cobra for a serious performance car anyway. If you are just going to do some light mods, and drive it as is, that's cool. But at the end of the day, if you want to go serious, it costs just as much to put a serious blower (not that roots crap) or turbo on the 03/04 as if you just started with like a Mach One, and put some better pistons in it.
Kurt
Kurt
pirotec354
Member
Personally i think it is really, REALLY stupid. But people are going to do what they want regardless. To each his own I suppose.
-Justin
-Justin
Originally Posted by nmcgrawj View Post
And lookie what i found here on my local forum:
Livernois 383 LS1 in 2004 Cobra - Video - Motown Muscle
Built LS1 in a 03/04 cobra race car.
This is just plain stupid. Taking a perfectly good cobra drivetrain capable of 1000HP and replacing it with chevy bc you are in love with LSx. This thread just keeps getting better. Apples and orange comparisons to ridiculous wasting of money.
And lookie what i found here on my local forum:
Livernois 383 LS1 in 2004 Cobra - Video - Motown Muscle
Built LS1 in a 03/04 cobra race car.
This is just plain stupid. Taking a perfectly good cobra drivetrain capable of 1000HP and replacing it with chevy bc you are in love with LSx. This thread just keeps getting better. Apples and orange comparisons to ridiculous wasting of money.
That "Roots Crap" is capable of power levels exceeding 500rwhp and 10-second ET's. I'd consider it serious enough for all but the most power hungry owners.
Black Stampede
Founding Member
That "Roots Crap" is capable of power levels exceeding 500rwhp and 10-second ET's. I'd consider it serious enough for all but the most power hungry owners.
I think he's referring to the really serious folks that are pumpin out rwhp in the neighborhood of 700.
Black Stampede
Founding Member
I really have no extreme stance on this issue, but I will say that there is a guy on turbomustangs who built an insane twin turbo viper v10 SN95 and I thinks it's fricken awesome. I can't say I am a big fan of the ls1 SN swap, but this viper swap is straight up awesome.
Project "Sniper" Sn95 + Viper
Project "Sniper" Sn95 + Viper
I really have no extreme stance on this issue, but I will say that there is a guy on turbomustangs who built an insane twin turbo viper v10 SN95 and I thinks it's fricken awesome. I can't say I am a big fan of the ls1 SN swap, but this viper swap is straight up awesome.
Project "Sniper" Sn95 + Viper
All kidding aside THAT is impressive. Similar would be putting a Cobra terminator in a miata.
That "Roots Crap" is capable of power levels exceeding 500rwhp and 10-second ET's. I'd consider it serious enough for all but the most power hungry owners.
So, like a little more than 100hp over stock. No thanks. Roots blowers generate a ton of heat, and take a lot of power to turn. The only reason that car comes with a roots blower is that it is easy to warranty.
Kurt
Alright, I can wrap my head around that. Unless he wants to go custom set up with a TVS series blower, his only option for a Positive Displacement set up is pretty much one of the Kenne Bell or Whipple kits, but if that's the case, he probably should have specified that in his answer. It might have saved me a whole lot of the typing I did below....
100hp over stock? How do you figure? The N/A version of the '03 Cobra engine is basically a cookie cutter design of the Mach 1 mill (save for the Mach's higher compression ratio) and they're putting down about 270rwhp. Last time I checked, 500hp minus 270hp was 230....not 100. And making anywhere from an additional200-230rwhp for about $2,000-2,500 in modifications certainly seems worth it as far as I'm concerned.
....as far as Roots blower generating a ton of heat. You do realize the most efficient and pound for pound, most powerful positive displacement design built to date (The Eaton TVS) utilizes a hybrid-Roots design, right?
You wanna see heat, try running a Twin Screw without an intercooler. You'd be surprised to learn that it’s pumping out even higher discharge temperatures than the Eaton down low and is only slightly more efficient than a 4th Gen on the top end. This Cobra’s MP112 isn’t the same 2nd or 3rd Gen design found in the old Supercoupe Thunderbird and certainly not the same old strait cut, top fed set up seen with the old 6-71 or 8-71 Roots design. The 4th Gen MP112 is capable of hanging with a comparable twin screw nearly all the way to red line and even boasts better adiabatic efficiency in the lower ranges. The only reason you'll notice the Twin Screw blowers coming out on top all the time during these so called "unbiased comparisons" (always performed by Kenne Bell if you'll notice) is because of the sheer displacement differences between the two blowers. What's the Cobra's replacement for the MP112....a 2.6L or 2.8L? So the massive Twin Screw out powers the all of 1.84L that the M112 is and it’s got to be based solely on the inefficient design of the Eaton, right? Think again man. 2.6L is nearly a 160ci blower and the 2.8L is just over 170ci.
So is any surprise that either of the larger Twin Screws is capable of moving a larger volume of air, while turning slower speeds (therefore resulting in a cooler ACT) than the stock Eaton?
I mean, if you want to compare apples to apples, how about a little closer match up? Why not pit the stock Cobra blower to the likes of the 2.1L Twin Screw? I'll tell you why, because the 2.1L barely out powers the smaller 4th Gen MP112 (and even then only in the upper ranges) and its victory doesn’t look nearly as impressive on paper.....that’s why. I mean, why would anyone lay out $3,000 worth of cabbage to swap out their Eaton to a 2.1L when its barely able to squeak past the stock Eaton’s numbers? Why not spend $1,000 less and upgrade to a 5th Generation Magnum Powers MP112 if more power is what you’re after. It’s already proven itself capable of walking away from the 2.1L and it’s a less expensive unit to boot. And the only major change between the 4th Gen MP114 and Magnum Powers unit is improvements to the inlet and outlet design. Displacement itself remains unchanged.
Look man, I’m not saying you have to like one set up over another, but you’re dead wrong if you think it’s the design of the blower itself that’s holding the Eaton back, or propelling the Kenne Bell forward.
Get them on an even playing field and you’ll see that you’re spending an awful lot of money just for a Kenne Bell name plate on your intake manifold.
95Vert383AOD
15 Year Member
earleys94gt
Active Member
That..is not real. It is a photochop. Look closely...TB's are sucking in radiator fluid and the weird looking coil on top.
The LS1 is designed better with newer technology. A huge reason you don't see 5.0s perform that well is because people are scared to put big parts on the cars. Give the 5.0 346cid (347) like the LS1 and put some 205cc heads on it a intake that doesn't do a 180* bend and the car will make 500rwhp. Reason you don't see fast 5.0s is because most all of the people that own them have no idea how to make a car fast.
100hp over stock? How do you figure? The N/A version of the '03 Cobra engine is basically a cookie cutter design of the Mach 1 mill (save for the Mach's higher compression ratio) and they're putting down about 270rwhp. Last time I checked, 500hp minus 270hp was 230....not 100. And making anywhere from an additional200-230rwhp for about $2,000-2,500 in modifications certainly seems worth it as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, The lowest I've ever seen an 03' Cobra put out is about 360rwhp. So that's like 140hp over stock. Something like that. And if I'm going to put a blower on a car, it's not going to be some crap that sits on top of the engine. Serious means a big ProCharger that sits in front.
Kurt
Unless I misread your quote, you compared it to a Mach 1 engine, not an already blown Cobra engine.
And if you weren't, the I have to tell you your out-pright wrong with your assumption. If you think it'll cost you the same amount of money to start from scratch with a Mach 1 as it would to upgrade the existing blower on an '03/'04 Cobra then you're sorely mistaken.
The completely forged bottom end of the Cobra aside, all of the PD blower kits make use of the existing Cobra lower intake, intercooler, plumbing, heat exchanger, etc. These upgrade kits essentially only consist of a blower and inlet upgrade and that's pretty much it for the kit itself it.
Sure, you're going to have to bump up the injector size, MAF meter and fuel lines/pumps for really serious power, but you'll need to do the same thing to a Mach 1 and I'd much rather start with an upgrade to the Cobra's dual sump set up than a complete overhaul of a Mach 1's single set up. That alone will set you back $1,500. Add that to the $2,000 it would cost you to forge the bottom end and you're already $3,500 into the project without factoring in the cost of labor....and you haven't even upgraded the electronics or bought your blower/turbo(s) system yet.
...and if you're talking full race application then fine...I agree, go big centrifugal of turbo, but I didn't see "race application" specified in this thread. Besides, those crap blowers that sit on top of then engine pretty much rule the streets man. You don't see many 600-800hp streetable big displacement centrifugal or turbo cars running around out there, do you? And you certainly don't see any of them making 400 or 500lbs/ft of torque just about right off idle and knocking down mid-20's for fuel economy either?
Considering a Mach One costs about $10K less to start, that's a huge head start right there. And there are plenty of centrifugal blower stangs putting 800hp to the wheels running around on the streets. And who cares what the torque is off idle. If you are on street tires, you're going to spin them anyway. If you are running a drag radial or a slick, you're going to be launching at at least 4000 rpms. I think the 03'/04' Cobra thing is just a fad. People buy them because they think they are really cool cars. Then they get modifcation crazy. I'm saying if you want a fast modular car, you're better off starting with a Mach One, or a 99'/01' Cobra. I had a friend who had an 04' Cobra. He sold his 10 second 97' Cobra to buy it. He said he was lucky to get 16mpg in it, and he ending up selling it because the payments were so high he couldn't afford to mod it anyway. I had another friend, who at the same time paid cash for an 01' Cobra, put a ProCharger on it, and Meth Injection, and ran 10.40s in it. No comparison in my book.
Kurt
Kurt
Aside from the blower debate, I don't know why anyone would run an 800HP car on the streets. Now I am thinking totally logical of course.. 
which is not how I built my car, but being close to 500rwhp, my car driveability/street manners sucks (to me but prolly ok to many of you)..now granted I am NA but still...I am at 60 in 4 seconds...where am I going to run it?
Now I am thinking totally logical of course.. which is not how I built my car, but being close to 500rwhp, my car driveability/street manners sucks (to me but prolly ok to many of you)..now granted I am NA but still...I am at 60 in 4 seconds...where am I going to run it? - Status
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