5.0Guy needs help! Looking at a 2.3L with issues!

[JSSuper455]

I've found a '92LX Hatch 2.3 Auto that I'm thinking of getting, but it has some issues.

This car is fairly clean, its got newer paint on it and the like so it looks pretty good. The tranny has recently been gone through and the fluid looks good. The car has 151,xxx mi on it.

The problems:
At first start it ran great, it pulled into traffic just fine. 3-4 minutes later, it began to hesitate and run doggy, progressing to hardly running at all. I nearly had to floor it to run 25 mph. After parking the car, it immediately quit. I also noticed that the cat underneath the car was glowing bright orange. I popped the hood, but didn't notice the first cat but the manifold didn't appear to be glowing.

Now, I did some searching and found two possibilities:
1. Clogged cat- this would co-incide with the fact that the exhaust system doesn't seem to be flowing right IMO. Though there is a decent amount of exhaust coming out the tailpipe. It just sounds like too much back-pressure up into the EGR as its making a fluffy clicking noise. Also I noticed that Cat #1 has a white-ish sticky looking stuff coming through, so it could be cracked. It also is very slow to rev-up even in P.

#2: running rich.. its possible because the Check engine light is on and it could be the O2 sensor. Though I had my O2 sensor's fail in my 5.0 thus it ran terribly rich, but I had no such issues with the cats in that....

Other problems that concern me:
1. Tach doesn't work. It bounces when you first turn on the ignition then it sits at 0.
2. Check engine light: This is probably because of the bad cat. I don't have a code scanner at this time or I would diagnose this
3. A/C compressor doesn't engage, and the HVAC system blows through DEFROST only. This is no matter what the setting. The fan starts blowing through defrost, even if I selected A/C, vent or floor.

The good news is, that the car doesn't appear to be leaking severely and doesn't appear to be burning oil. The transmission also shifted firm and quick when it was running properly during the first 3 minutes of the drive.
Overal the car doesn't appear to be in too bad of shape. It was smoked in, and the seat covers are in poor condition, but no cracks in dash etc. There are a few dents and the like, but overall its fairly decent.

Are the problems with this car very major. I know that replacing a cat (IF it is the cat) can be a few hundred, but what about the tach and HVAC issues? In your opinion is this car worth the few hundred asking price? I don't want to be dumping money into it since I probably wouldn't be keeping it long anyway. So if the issues are going to be spendy on this one, I'll pass.

Thanks!

 

[bhuff30]

For the bogging and glowing, I would completly agree the cat being clogged is a very likely possibility. They can run ok cold, but then hot they will nearly kill the engine. You should be able to get a universal cat welded in for cheap, or if your state doesn't check emissions you can remove it competly.
As for the AC, this is a 2 part problem. The compressor may not be coming on for several reasons.
1. if the freeon is too low, the pressure switch won't allow the compressor to come on. Solution: add freeon
2. If the pressure switch is bad, the compressor won't come on. Solution: replace pressure switch
3. If the compressor clutch is toasted, the compressoring won't spin. Solution: replace compressor clutch
4. Wiring/computer issue. The wiring or computer is bad, and power isn't being send to the compressor clutch. This would have to be traced down, but is much much less likely the 1-3.
As for only the defrost working, there is probably a vacume line that came disconnected behind the dash. To control where the air goes, there are vacume motors. When no vacume is supplied, these motors will default to the defrost. Just a matter of checking vacume lines and the vacume motor.
For the Tach, It is hard to say. It is possible the tach within the instrument cluster needs to be replaced, or there is a wiring issue somewhere. More likely to be the tach though.

 

[JSSuper455]

Thats all good to know. I've been checking into converters. Looks like I could actually order a whole midsection of pipe for a direct replacement, with a hi-flow cat (Magnaflow brand) for 183.00 from Summit. That is of course, worse comes to worse... with how the exhaust shops around here are, it may be the cheapest solution. I've also done a little testing, and I think its probably low on freon then, because the guy promises it was working during the summer months. The car is black so A/C would be a must during Utah summers.

He is asking $500 wich seems reasonable at first, but then I read about guys in here that payed $175 and it makes me think of offering less!

 

[bhuff30]

I dunno, you are looking at at least 3-400 in fixes on the car which already has 150k miles. I would be vary wary. If you were planning on welding in a streight pipe in place of the cat, and not bothering with the AC, it would probably be a good car for you, but you are trying to make something worn out something dependable again.

 

[JSSuper455]

Its good to know, I figured I'd post the issues it has on Stangnet cause I'd get a strait answer.

 

[RustBucket]

The ignition module could be causing your tach issues. I've seen the modules cause the tach to bounce and read incorrectly although I've never seen the tach not work at all because of this. The check engine light could be caused by a bad module. If you find codes 223 and/or 224, it's most often a bad module and not the coils as the codes would suggest.

Even at 500 bucks it sounds like a decent deal. I looked at a '91 a couple of weeks back that was formerly an Ohio car. Rust was having its way with all of the sheetmetal, the motor didn't run (but another motor was mentioned in the deal), but the interior was nice. The guy wanted $600.00 and didn't really act like he'd come down. Needless to say, the car still sits there.

 

[JSSuper455]

I'm going to throw an offer out at him and see what he says. I think he's pretty firm at $500, but one never knows until yah try. Overall the car isn't that bad. The dash and door panels are nice, but the seats are stained and have burn marks. It needs a passenger door handle and also a driver lock cyl. The car has pretty fresh paint, but the body has some dents. The car has 10 hole wheels on it too wich is a plus, but the tires are shot.

He apparently has a receipt for the transmission and brake work, and the car has a new CD player, amp and big sub box in the back. I'm debating weather its worth it, because I don't need the car really. I'ts more to help my neighbor out, then I'd clean it up and fix it as best as I could then probably drive it around with a "FOR SALE" in the window.

I'll try and get a pic of it posted, its kinda dirty since we've had some recent snow storms, but there really isn't any rust in the car and nothing seems to be leaking so thats a plus.

 

[rd]

For $500, I would get it. Sounds like an exhaust and pulling codes and correcting a few things would get a good running car.

I just did exactly this, and did have to replace the A4LD with another one, for $125. Biggest problem was getting the engine fan control to work. But the 92 has a different version of that system.

Should be a good one.

 

[tucsonpred]

I got mine for $500 and it doesn't drive right now but it looks like I'll be replacing the a4ld. See my "Noob post" for where I sit currently.

 

[stackz]

you've got a 93 5.0 and you dont have a standard ford EEC-IV code scanner yet?? dude....

lol, 30 bucks and you can scan ANY ford EEC-IV ecu was something I did in a heartbeat. It's helped me on sooo many fords I've bought and sold.

for $500 bucks I'd buy and park it while I sold off all of the stereo equipment on ebay. Then use that money to get the code scanner and run/fix the codes.

Also, what freon does it have?? 134 or still R12?? If it's 134, Go get one of those kits from walmart that comes with the gauges. That and one of those $17 vacuum pumps from ebay and as long as you have an air compressor you can basically fix any a/c problem you want.

as for the cat. If you buy the car just unhook the exhaust and get a long skinny pole or whatnot and beat out the insides of it. That's a free fix. Then if the problem goes away (without code scanner) then you know it was the cat and can THEN either decide to replace it or leave it if your area has no emissions

edit: ooo I just got founding member status

 

[RustBucket]

I don't think EEC-IV has the capability to check cat converter efficiency. There's no sensor downstream of the cat to do this. Now it may throw seemingly unrelated codes due to excessive backpresssure, possibly an EGR fault, or an air/fuel mixture condition, but I don't believe you'll see a cat-specific code.

Something to think about, usually a motor that is excessively rich will melt the catalyst in a converter and cause the casing to glow. You'll need to do some digging and find out why the cats got nuked before spending money on replacing them. Maybe do like Stackz said and gut them first, get the motor straigtened out, then hang a new cat.

I gutted the cats on my '91 and while the motor ran better, the open cat bodies basically created a pair of resonators that IMO sounded like hell. Since there's no emissions inspections here (yet), I went ahead and welded in new pipe from where the first cat started all the way to the muffler. It quieted it down and was more to my liking.


FYI when I priced a new cat from the local parts store, it showed 1 cat replacing the two factory pieces.

As far as the A/C goes, as long as it hasn't been converted by a previous owner, and being that's its a '92, its an R-12 system. Converting it is a breeze. You'll need the pump and gauges mentioned above, and a new dryer. I did mine a little over a year ago and haven't had any trouble.

 

[stackz]

I know it cant check the cat efficiency but he did say he had a check engine light on...unless I read something wrong. generally they dont come on for no reason at all...something has gone bad, enough to make the engine run like crap and trip that cel.

 

[JSSuper455]

I'm a slacker, thats why I don't have a code scanner yet.....
Seriously though, I fully intended to purchase one as soon as my 5.0 threw a C'E light. That hasn't happened yet so I've never purchased one. Though I didn't realize how cheap they were $30 isn't all that bad. I've got a nasty cold currently so I havn't been out and about, but if I get the chance I'll run around a little today and get one. I've been kinda curious to see why the C'E is on. If running rich causes cats to fail the way they did, its probably been out of tune for a while. Its possible that it has a failed O2 sensor that started it all, but with the tach not working either it could have a failed ICM from the sound of things. A code scanner will tell the tail.

The A/C system is still R-12, so it could get spendy to fix and thus conversion would be cheaper depending on the problem.

The car is still sitting in front of my house though, so its going to be easy to code scan. I'll post the codes when I get them.

 

[RustBucket]

I'm with you 100% Stackz, that's why I mentioned that it may have thrown codes as a result of, but not specifically mentioning the cats. We're on the same page. I'm just looking at the pictures while you're actually reading the words.

JS, another brother of the Church of Procrastination. I'm forever putting off stuff I think I can do later "when I'll feel more like doing it". Unfortunately, these days there's a backlog a mile long. I'll get to it tomorrow. uh..yeah.

Back to the car. the rich condition could be a number of things. fuel pressure regulator, O2 sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAF. But you won't know where to start until you pull codes.

There's a way to do it without the scanner. I don't have one either brother slacker.

http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/tech/eec/

Check out the link. Just a jumper wire is all you need to read and clear codes.