'66FBGT 289 Engine Rebuild Estimate

[hivewax]

okay, crap motors.

i was doing a search... absorbing info. i found this write up -
http://mustangandfords.com/techarticles/15839_buy_crate_engine/index.html

anybody have other links to write ups. i found some helpful tips like thermal coating on pistons and cylinders. i mentioned it to the machine shop and they don't do that.

 

[Hack]

i wish for deep pockets! i just saved up. and, after my radiator popped, the mustang itch came back to me... i wanted an alum radiator, AC, better gas mileage, etc.

a stroked orig 289ci w/ easily ~350hp and all those tasty racing parts sounds good to me on the street. if i go 351ci or more, gas becomes an issue. and, parts will be a little more. if the 289 is bad, then i'll opt for a Boss 302 or World/Dart 302 block.

i don't know... a prepped racing 289ci goes for a hefty price.

I disagree with your line of thinking. Power usage = gas consumption. Just having a larger engine won't make a big difference in gas consumption. If you drive like grandma you can get good gas mileage and if you drive like me you will probably get about 10 mpg no matter what your displacement. I get just slightly over 10 mpg with my 302. However, a larger engine WILL last longer and be more fun on the street.

I would encourage you to at least consider a 351W rather than a 289. You will get more reliability. Also, you will have more room to grow and increase power if you ever want to in the future.

 

[hivewax]

ok, i'm keeping the 351W in mind since most are pushing me that way.

what are the major issues from a 289 to 351W swap? quick links?

 

[hivewax]

289/302 vs. 351W

ok, i read here that the 351W is taller + has tight issues w/headers in a '65-66. i also seen some going for the 302 block... less of a hassle.

is there other major issues?

 

[danny clemens]

ok, i read here that the 351W is taller + has tight issues w/headers in a '65-66. i also seen some going for the 302 block... less of a hassle.

is there other major issues?

Hood clearance if you want to use a tall intake and no hood scoop.

 

[D.Hearne]

i wish for deep pockets! i just saved up. and, after my radiator popped, the mustang itch came back to me... i wanted an alum radiator, AC, better gas mileage, etc.

a stroked orig 289ci w/ easily ~350hp and all those tasty racing parts sounds good to me on the street. if i go 351ci or more, gas becomes an issue. and, parts will be a little more. if the 289 is bad, then i'll opt for a Boss 302 or World/Dart 302 block.

i don't know... a prepped racing 289ci goes for a hefty price.

You don't have to stroke the 289 to get 350 hp. And like Hack posted, bigger engine's don't equate to less MPG. You can build the 289 to get 350 hp, but the mileage could suffer, ditto for a 351, it all depends on the parts you choose and how your right foot reacts to the increased power. Build the 289 with something like AFR165 heads (1.94/1.60 valves and port volume to match) mill them to 54 ccs (to keep the compression the same) Go conservative on cam selection, something like an RV style grind (.500 lift with no more than a 214* duration @.050 and a wide LSA like an EFI cam) Use a dual plane high rise intake, top it with no more than a 600 cfm carb. Piston selection: 1.610" pin height flat tops, test fit them and get as close to a zero deck as possible. A 289 built like this will be efficient and get you the power you want and be totally streetable. The fuel mileage then will depend on your right foot.

 

[hivewax]

Hearne, thanx for the info. i'll pass it along to the machine shop.

 

[Fast63]

You can buy a assembled stroker shortblock for about $1950 with forged pistons/rods from most places then get your own heads. Sounds a little high to me.You also keep your old block and sell it to recoup a little.

I agree 100%. Plus, if you order your own stuff separately, you will gain some experience with the assembly.

I dislike "roller tip" rockers. Full rollers are the way to go.

 

[hivewax]

Update

i will definitely want a detailed parts + cost list from the machine shop. i told them already. i want every piece of info. also, they mentioned that buying these outsource crate/stroked motors, you have problems with their warranty. if trouble happens... installer will blame builder or vice versa. if i rebuild my engine at a local builder, if anything happens, they fix it. no questions asked, no charge. i will ask about their warranty. so we're planning:

orig 289 block stroked to 347ci, forged JE pistons, JE Pro Seal piston rings, Comp XTREME Energy Cam, their ported alum heads that will match the AFR 185's specs + price, EDELBROCK Air Gap intake, roller rockers, Comp Cams beehive valve springs, 1-piece push-rods.

another estimate is being made. i should get it hopefully before Friday. and, i was thinking turbo, but i don't have the dough.

should i go with the Blue Thunder Cobra intake?
what type/brand of roller rockers?
anything else i should look at?

 

[SoCalCruising]

347 and RPM intake will limit power up top. Not a bad choice, mind you, but match it with a cam that isn't too big. If it's a roller cam, an XE274HR would be about right. If you go with a Victor Jr., you could go a little bigger on the cam. My 331 has a cam with 230/236 duration an .050" and it has good power all over. I used this cam initially with a ported Stealth intake and it held together to 6000RPM nicely. It's tough to port an RPM 'cause several ports are not tapered near the outlet. I wouldn't touch the ports on the RPM very much at all. The runners on the Stealth are well tapered and lend themselves to porting.

Harlan Sharp rockers are good. So are MEI rockers (www.mid-lift.com), but are pricier.

You need, at least, 1 5/8" primary header tubes.

 

[hivewax]

thanx for the MEI rockers tip. never heard of them before. and they live pretty close to me in Pompano Beach, FL.

shop recommended hydraulic cam. roller cam requires more tuning than hydraulic.

and, i'm assuming the Blue Thunder Cobra intake manifold is old technology since no one is talking about it.

 

[SoCalCruising]

That's okay. Vizard says that there is little difference between roller and flat tappet cams in short-medium duration grinds. The difference really comes out with longer duration, apparently.

 

[hivewax]

Link!

ton of good info on strokers at the Ford Muscle Forums -
http://fordmuscle.com/forums/stroker-engines

 

[D.Hearne]

thanx for the MEI rockers tip. never heard of them before. and they live pretty close to me in Pompano Beach, FL.

shop recommended hydraulic cam. roller cam requires more tuning than hydraulic.

and, i'm assuming the Blue Thunder Cobra intake manifold is old technology since no one is talking about it.

They're talking about a solid roller, not a hydraulic roller. Doesn't require more tuning, just more maintenence. The Cobra intake is equal to an RPM on a 289/302, but may limit a 347 (don't know for sure, never tried it on a 347), I run the Ford equivalent on the roller 302 in my 89 Ranger, it's called the A321 now, but it's the same intake as Blue Thunder's & Edelbrock's old F4B. Ford sold it over the counter at the dealerships as the C9OX, and Shelby was the originator of it back in the early 60's as the "Cobra" intake. The difference between it and an RPM, is it's an unequal length runner design, two short runners and two long ones in each plane. It may be thought of as "old tech", but it's not out dated, it still works. On my 331, I'm running a repop Ford 3x2, it's also old tech, but it's an awesome performer on the 331.

 

[hivewax]

347 Stroker Quote

Parts
3.40 Eagle ESP cast steel crankshaft (up to 500hp)
5.40 Eagle SIR I-beam forged 5140 steel connecting rods
SRP forged pistons
Sealed Power moly rings
Clevite 77 bearings
Comp Cams hydraulic camshaft + lifters
Comp Cams hardened push rods
MELLING HV oil pump
Pioneer brass freeze plugs
EDELBROCK tru-roller timing set
Professional Products balancer
Victor Reinz gasket set
custom alum heads (port/polished, 60cc chamber/185cc runners, 2.02/1.60 stainless steel valves, silicone valve guides, Comp Cams beehive valve springs, push-rod guide plates)
ARP head bolts
Comp Cams roller tip rocker arms
NGK racing spark plugs
EDELBROCK RPM Air Gap intake
Holley 600cfm w/e-choke

Machine Work
block oven cleaned + jet washed
block bored + matched hones w/deck plates
block squared decked w/BHJ fixture
block aligned honed mains w/Sunnen equipment
block cleared for stroker assembly
flywheel resurfaced
rotating assembly computer balanced + blueprinted
camshaft degreed + complete valve train adjusted
engine fully assembled/dressed to customer specs

Garage
remove + replace engine
inspect + test cooling sys
tune + adjust

$6850

quote is missing oil pan, water pump, alternator, valve covers, etc.

give me some advice.

 

[SoCalCruising]

On an old block, the roller cam requires link-bar lifters or reduced base circle roller cam in order to go roller cam. This increases your expense, and probably too much for the benefit. You're not likely to miss it. Plus, you want avoid reduced base circle cams. The RPM intake will be all done by about 6000RPM, so the cam should be spec'd to peak a little below that number, IMO. It should run hard to 5500-6000RPM with those heads.

If clearances are kept to about .002-.0025 on mains, you will be better off with a standard volume oil pump. The 1/4" drive is a little wimpy for hi-vol pumps and, on occasion, have been seen to chew up the distributor drive (where oil pump drive shaft mates to distributor). Ask them to keep the tolerances on the tight side and you'll be fine with a standard volume pump. Talk it over with the shop.

This isn't a bad motor. If the lift is kept reasonable, the beehives will work fine. I'm antsy about using them with a really high lift cam because there is nothing to keep the motor from dropping a valve if one breaks (a double spring will keep the valve out of the cylinder if one spring breaks). I wouldn't sweat it here though - your flat tappet cam will not have lift over about .520", I suspect. If the shop does a good job on assembly, you will probably like this motor a lot, and it isn't overkill for a street motor (like mine) >

My $.02.

 

[Fast63]

also, they mentioned that buying these outsource crate/stroked motors, you have problems with their warranty. if trouble happens... installer will blame builder or vice versa. if i rebuild my engine at a local builder, if anything happens, they fix it. no questions asked, no charge. i will ask about their warranty.

When he says that, he is just trying to sell you something. There are plenty of places out there that you can order stuff from, like aforementioned DSS racing, that build all their stuff in the US and are very reputable. Some will be bad places. But the same goes for local stuff. I have heard plenty of horror stories from local guys. Just because he's down the street doesn't mean anything. His "in house" heads sound like cheap china outsourced castings that maybe he works a little bit. Are they CNC machined? Somehow I doubt he could compare in price and quality or he would have his own line of heads. AFR's are also machined in US.

 

[D.Hearne]

For $6850 I'll build you TWO 347's. All total, I have $4500 in my 331 and that's including the $1100 tri-power induction.

 

[hivewax]

some great advice SoCalCruiser.

as for the heads... they are CNC machined. i'll check if they are USA made and from where.

D.Hearne, your offer is tempting... can you provide a more elaborate description of your built 347 stroker?

 

[D.Hearne]

I haven't built em, I did build the 331, I was trying to illustrate the price difference. My shortblock cost me $1800 including the cam, lifters & main girdle(Z303 roller, Crane lifters, Mustangs Unlimited girdle) Summit sells 347 stroker kits(same one used in the build you listed) for less than a grand. I paid $1250 for mine including the machine work. Block cost me $50. I have Canfield heads and have 1400 in them including the Comp 1.7 roller rockers. All that adds up to $3200. I also of course shopped around on a lot of stuff, if you're patient you can save tons of money. I just can't see paying double for something.