Build Thread '83 T-top Coupe - Welding Holes in My Rear

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Mustang5L5

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I've got the same impact gun. 99% of what I've used it for, it's been able to get off. That 1% I just drag out the pneumatic gun. Fortunately it's not often.

I need more of those 20V batteries. Ive got a few Dewalts now. No issues at all, and I definitely treat those tools hard. I've probably had my drill smoking several times now (I was really beating on it) and it still works fine. I'll buy more
 

Davedacarpainter

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I don’t mean to disappear for a few days, but....

My youngest son has the chinese virus. He’s doing well. He and his four roommates at college are isolating for a couple weeks.

His biggest problem so far is fatigue.

The university obviously won’t allow them to go to classes, but they do have a virtual option. Andy’s good with that.

My youngest boy has never been the one to complain about being sick, so I’m not real sure on how he feels. I’ll just have to trust him on what he tells me.

I got my new spot weld cutters and am ready to go after Booger with a vengeance, I just want to be sure my boy is good.

He’s such a good son.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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I don’t mean to disappear for a few days, but....

My youngest son has the chinese virus. He’s doing well. He and his four roommates at college are isolating for a couple weeks.

His biggest problem so far is fatigue.

The university obviously won’t allow them to go to classes, but they do have a virtual option. Andy’s good with that.

My youngest boy has never been the one to complain about being sick, so I’m not real sure on how he feels. I’ll just have to trust him on what he tells me.

I got my new spot weld cutters and am ready to go after Booger with a vengeance, I just want to be sure my boy is good.

He’s such a good son.
And you sir are a good dad. I have no way of knowing this other than our brief time together..but I know it.
 
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droopie85gt

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Dave, don't apologize about choosing family first. My son's 6.5 hrs away in Knoxville. Unlike his dad, he goes to class (or online) does his work, and doesn't party. So he is pretty safe so far. But it worries me if something comes up with him so far away.

Take care of your boy, Dave! The car will be there.
 
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Davedacarpainter

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So Andy’s been running a low grade fever (100-101ish). Aches and pains and fatigue still.

He‘s real upbeat about it though:nonono:. He said he was feeling better yesterday afternoon. He won’t let me visit him, I guess I understand, he doesn’t want the old man to catch it........

He doesn’t seem to understand that I was invincible at his age, he’s not me, so he can’t be too.......

I‘m going to work on Booger later today since I can’t do much for my boy. I’ll get the uca support cut out today.
 

Davedacarpainter

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So out to the garage I go.......I have a mental problem I’ve decided.....I’ll cover that one towards the end of this post..... :nonono:

Anyways, What the goal for the day was to remove the right rear uca mount. Sounds like that would be easy, right? Let’s GET OUT THERE AND DO IIIIIIIIIIIT! Yep, let’s get right out there and do it........:nonono:

First, here’s a picture of the clearance between the irs frame and the uca mount, I’m not sure if there’s an eight of an inch free space there or not. There is clearance though, so why remove it? Because it’s ugly and unwanted, just like I was as a child:cry::cry::cry:.
EB1D5EB2-C5FC-470A-B227-5B9284166485.jpeg

Now to drift back towards the car...Here’s that brace looking all innocent and heck, “just pull me out of here real quick like Dave....”
574F77A5-9746-4CD6-A8F9-759134A51278.jpeg

So first off, I slap some old speaker magnets around the area to help avoid the metal shavings battle.
EFDB09CF-E708-42DD-BF3A-FB13EA380685.jpeg

Back to the beginning of the post, my problem. I start off with wanting to remove these brackets whole, Idk why, It started with Doby and continues here. After using the old spot weld cutter for the first four welds (there are 21 on this side) I realized that maybe I wouldn’t be removing this bracket in one piece. This is some seriously thick metal the brackets are made out of. Yet I persisted in my delusion and went after the tougher to get to spot welds on the inner part of it. So ten spot welds cut and it took me an hour and a half and my hands hurt.
8CB754D1-5D3F-4914-B1B5-8FCC22DEAA36.jpeg

Now that I rid myself of removing these pieces whole, tomorrow I will pick up some cut off wheels and grinding wheels for my die grinder. This rat bastard bracket WILL be off there tomorrow night and it can be in tiny little pieces for all I care!

Why not tonight you might ask? It started raining and half my body was sticking out of the garage as I worked on this.
 

02 281 GT

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So out to the garage I go.......I have a mental problem I’ve decided.....I’ll cover that one towards the end of this post..... :nonono:

Anyways, What the goal for the day was to remove the right rear uca mount. Sounds like that would be easy, right? Let’s GET OUT THERE AND DO IIIIIIIIIIIT! Yep, let’s get right out there and do it........:nonono:

First, here’s a picture of the clearance between the irs frame and the uca mount, I’m not sure if there’s an eight of an inch free space there or not. There is clearance though, so why remove it? Because it’s ugly and unwanted, just like I was as a child:cry::cry::cry:.
EB1D5EB2-C5FC-470A-B227-5B9284166485.jpeg

Now to drift back towards the car...Here’s that brace looking all innocent and heck, “just pull me out of here real quick like Dave....”
574F77A5-9746-4CD6-A8F9-759134A51278.jpeg

So first off, I slap some old speaker magnets around the area to help avoid the metal shavings battle.
EFDB09CF-E708-42DD-BF3A-FB13EA380685.jpeg

Back to the beginning of the post, my problem. I start off with wanting to remove these brackets whole, Idk why, It started with Doby and continues here. After using the old spot weld cutter for the first four welds (there are 21 on this side) I realized that maybe I wouldn’t be removing this bracket in one piece. This is some seriously thick metal the brackets are made out of. Yet I persisted in my delusion and went after the tougher to get to spot welds on the inner part of it. So ten spot welds cut and it took me an hour and a half and my hands hurt.
8CB754D1-5D3F-4914-B1B5-8FCC22DEAA36.jpeg

Now that I rid myself of removing these pieces whole, tomorrow I will pick up some cut off wheels and grinding wheels for my die grinder. This rat bastard bracket WILL be off there tomorrow night and it can be in tiny little pieces for all I care!

Why not tonight you might ask? It started raining and half my body was sticking out of the garage as I worked on this.
The latest cold front is rolling in! It'll be here in AR sometime in the wee hours.

I've been really happy with the Blair spot weld cutter kit in terms of its toughness with thicker metal. Might be something to look into in lieu of the HF cutters. Those always kept breaking on me after only a few spot welds, negating any supposed cost savings.
 
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Davedacarpainter

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The latest cold front is rolling in! It'll be here in AR sometime in the wee hours.

I've been really happy with the Blair spot weld cutter kit in terms of its toughness with thicker metal. Might be something to look into in lieu of the HF cutters. Those always kept breaking on me after only a few spot welds, negating any supposed cost savings.
Thanks Jon, I ordered a set.
 

CarMichael Angelo

clearly, I’ve got something going on in that hole
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Thanks Dave.

Thanks for pictures of an old car, that sat in a salvage yard, for xyz years, That sat in your garage for xyz months. That isn’t a Dirt crusted, grease laden, crud platform in the pics, because you know what a pressure washer is, and what can be accomplished with a wire wheel on a drill/grinder.
 
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Davedacarpainter

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Say hello to my little friends
image.jpg

Those brackets are coming off tonight!

It’s good working in a bodyshop...... :D
 

Davedacarpainter

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I'm confused. What remove those mounts? Seem like a good bracket to triangulate that area of sheetmetal.
On the face of it Mike, I agree with you.

First, obviously, the reason they are there, and why they’re so stout is taken away. No sra, no direct forces to that area of the subframe.

Second, the force against that area from the rear suspension are considerably different due to the rearward mounting of the irs. The twisting (torsional?) forces received from a sra are dynamically different than what will be imparted to the frame from the irs.

Consider the upper right mount when you hit the gas. When torque is applied through the sra, the top of it twists backwards slightly until the uca’s stop the rearward twist. Plus there’s more force against the upper right than the upper left, so, in a way the sra is trying to twist the subframe rails with the main focal point being that upper area of the subframes that turn up behind the rear seat.

But the right lower torque box is receiving more of a straight line force through the lower control arm. The upper, in direct comparison to the lower, is receiving less force due to the twisting of the sra itself. “Less” forward force would also be a dynamic of twisting just the right subframe rail.

So you have the upper right being pulled to the rear compared to the lower right and also being pushed forward compared to the upper left. Obviously why you see just one front wheel getting air when you hit it hard.

Then, along with the opposing forces you get if you haven’t supported the rest of the body’s structure (subframe connectors, etc...), the twisting all this weight from the rest of the body flexing under torque just amplifies the force applied to that short area of the rear subframe. In addition to that, you have movement of the suspension during all this force being applied. Bend a piece of metal in one direction and it reshapes, bend it back and forth time and time again, what happens eventually? Snap!

You can see why upper and lower control arm reinforcements are a really good idea especially if you have a modified engine with more power than stock.

The irs changes those forces greatly. First, there is zero movement of the irs structure in placement in the rear subframe structure, other than through bushings you might use mounting it. This is the reason I will hard mount the upper rear.

Obviously there’s still force applied to the subframe with an irs, that makes the car go. What are those forces and how are they different?

You have a LOT of the twist experienced with a sra absorbed by the irs frame itself. The irs frame is a structural part of the subframe much more so than with a sra.

This is already getting long winded, but basically the area the uca mounts are won’t receive anything like the force it received with a sra. At most it will receive slight twisting from the way force and where force is applied through the irs. Hence the tube I intend to weld into that area. Though I believe that will probably be overkill for my driving situation. Plus the whole minimal clearance between the mount and the irs frame really bugs me.

So, the answer to removing those uca mounts for me? They’re ugly and stupid, lol.

I‘m not an engineer, so, if any of you engineers out there see fault in what I just said. Let me know, I want to learn. I also know there’s much more to it than just what I said.
 

02 281 GT

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On the face of it Mike, I agree with you.

First, obviously, the reason they are there, and why they’re so stout is taken away. No sra, no direct forces to that area of the subframe.

Second, the force against that area from the rear suspension are considerably different due to the rearward mounting of the irs. The twisting (torsional?) forces received from a sra are dynamically different than what will be imparted to the frame from the irs.

Consider the upper right mount when you hit the gas. When torque is applied through the sra, the top of it twists backwards slightly until the uca’s stop the rearward twist. Plus there’s more force against the upper right than the upper left, so, in a way the sra is trying to twist the subframe rails with the main focal point being that upper area of the subframes that turn up behind the rear seat.

But the right lower torque box is receiving more of a straight line force through the lower control arm. The upper, in direct comparison to the lower, is receiving less force due to the twisting of the sra itself. “Less” forward force would also be a dynamic of twisting just the right subframe rail.

So you have the upper right being pulled to the rear compared to the lower right and also being pushed forward compared to the upper left. Obviously why you see just one front wheel getting air when you hit it hard.

Then, along with the opposing forces you get if you haven’t supported the rest of the body’s structure (subframe connectors, etc...), the twisting all this weight from the rest of the body flexing under torque just amplifies the force applied to that short area of the rear subframe. In addition to that, you have movement of the suspension during all this force being applied. Bend a piece of metal in one direction and it reshapes, bend it back and forth time and time again, what happens eventually? Snap!

You can see why upper and lower control arm reinforcements are a really good idea especially if you have a modified engine with more power than stock.

The irs changes those forces greatly. First, there is zero movement of the irs structure in placement in the rear subframe structure, other than through bushings you might use mounting it. This is the reason I will hard mount the upper rear.

Obviously there’s still force applied to the subframe with an irs, that makes the car go. What are those forces and how are they different?

You have a LOT of the twist experienced with a sra absorbed by the irs frame itself. The irs frame is a structural part of the subframe much more so than with a sra.

This is already getting long winded, but basically the area the uca mounts are won’t receive anything like the force it received with a sra. At most it will receive slight twisting from the way force and where force is applied through the irs. Hence the tube I intend to weld into that area. Though I believe that will probably be overkill for my driving situation. Plus the whole minimal clearance between the mount and the irs frame really bugs me.

So, the answer to removing those uca mounts for me? They’re ugly and stupid, lol.

I‘m not an engineer, so, if any of you engineers out there see fault in what I just said. Let me know, I want to learn. I also know there’s much more to it than just what I said.
I'm planning to remove the rear shock body mounts from my '66 for the same reason. It just won't be used with the suspension I'll (eventually) be installing.
 

Davedacarpainter

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I’m sitting here watching the news. It’s raining where the news head is.

So I decided I should drink a second Dirty Bastard prior to grinding out those spot welds at least till the rain stops wherever they are. I mean, really, it only makes good solid logical sense, right?
image.jpg
 
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Rdub6

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I’m sitting here watching the news. It’s raining where the news head is.

So I decided I should drink a second Dirty Bastard prior to grinding out those spot welds at least till the rain stops wherever they are. I mean, really, it only makes good solid logical sense, right?
image.jpg

Sounds about right!