87 notch/weird accel coil problem

87benjaminbrnr

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
16
0
1
38
Springfield,MO
Hey guys, Glad to finally join up since I do a lot of reading off these forums. I'm having a strange issue running a particular ignition coil. For a little background as it pertains, I'm running a MSD billet dizzy with motorcraft tfi module, msd blaster coil, 8mm ford racing wires, and it is all under the control of the ProM efi control system. In an attempt to freshen spark I tried to replace a my 15 year old MSD coil with an Accel E-core Super coil. I thought the first one out of the box had issues as after replacing the car would suffer severe detonation above 3000 rpm, and even the tachometer would go haywire. Under 3 k all was well. I returned for another and I am having the same issue. At approximately 3000-3500 rpm It spits sputters and det knocks. Base time is set at 10* with total advance at 36*. No evidence of cross fire under cap, and I even tried another cap and rotor. Everything I'm running currently is very low mile. Wires are all good, no bright lights in the dark. Spark plugs are new gapped at .030. Does anyone know if the Accel coils are known for being electrically noisy? It's as though my pip signal goes nuts. I have the MSD coil back on the car and all is well, but I can't be happy without knowing why this is happening. Does MSD have an issue playing nice with other brands? Or is there something else I'm missing? Accel coil ohms to its rated values at .04 primary and 8.8 k secondary.
 
  • Sponsors(?)


Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
28,742
10,768
224
Box behind Walmart
www.stangnet.com
It does look good. So your saying in terms of electrical noise? I know it took me 3 to get one that worked, but once I finally did get one that worked it produced a perfect signal. Elaborate please.

I could do that but it would still be only speculation on my part. Instead, I will direct you to JR's checklist. It will lead you to the failed component(s):

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-checklist-for-fuel-injected-mustangs.787471/

Granted, some of those procedures won't apply to you due to your aftermarket ECU but for that, perhaps @a91what can lend some assistance.


In my own jaded opinion, MSD products were designed to be shot off the top of fence posts. That aside, there is no better distributor made for a small block 302 than the one made by Ford.
 
Last edited:

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
Does the erratic tach signal show up on a datalog or datafeed from the prom unit? If so you have a false idm input signal from the tfi, suspect the tfi and pip inside the distributor.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
Also depending on the tfi you are running you could have issues, the black ones are ccd (computer controlled dwell) they will not play well with low resistance coils if the ECU does not properly saturate the coil. IE. The pro m is not controlling the dwell. This causes weak spark
 

87benjaminbrnr

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
16
0
1
38
Springfield,MO
Also depending on the tfi you are running you could have issues, the black ones are ccd (computer controlled dwell) they will not play well with low resistance coils if the ECU does not properly saturate the coil. IE. The pro m is not controlling the dwell. This causes weak spark
TFI module is the OE Grey Motorcraft.
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
5,316
4,357
203
42
I rebuilt an MSD billet distributor with a motorcraft pick up. With the cap off you should be able to look down below the metal part the rotor sits on.

That piece the rotor sits on is read by the pick up. The pick up itsslf should not look powdery or soft. Its not super hard to replace but dies involve removing the distributor and pressing the gear off. The pick up in the MSD is the same as the pick up for a stock 5.0.

My MSD distibutor has been working for about 15 years.... no problems. I'm sure I've put at least 60k + on it.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
I rebuilt an MSD billet distributor with a motorcraft pick up. With the cap off you should be able to look down below the metal part the rotor sits on.

That piece the rotor sits on is read by the pick up. The pick up itsslf should not look powdery or soft. Its not super hard to replace but dies involve removing the distributor and pressing the gear off. The pick up in the MSD is the same as the pick up for a stock 5.0.

My MSD distibutor has been working for about 15 years.... no problems. I'm sure I've put at least 60k + on it.
If by same you mean cheapest possible chinne knockoff
 

87benjaminbrnr

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
16
0
1
38
Springfield,MO
Sorry for delay, I haven't had much time. All I've had time for is to compare the msd coil resistance against the accel. MSD primary higher at .9-1. Secondary in at 4k. That seams comparable to what they currently offer.
Likely a bad pip in the distributor.
I think that is starting to make sense. If I understand the PROM ecu operation correctly , "big if", The tfi is out as it now only serves to pass signal to the ecu and has no effect on fire. The PIP signal is pristine and everything checks at Idle but I'm not sure what it looks like at high rpm under load. Perhaps a tired old coil has masked a problem that was revealed with fresh spark. If weather permits I'll data log it this weekend with both coils. Thanks for the direction.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
The Tfi still produces the idm signal and controls the dwell remember only the later 94+ tfi modules are ccd. Dwell is mucho important
 

87benjaminbrnr

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
16
0
1
38
Springfield,MO
????? Another crap accel coil ??????????
Ran a log on pip count and whatever else I thought would reveal the pip signal. No difference between coils. But on a counter point..... I switched back to my 28 year old stock distributor and of course it runs better than with the MSD.
MSD is like an abusive lover..... you think to yourself time and time again..... maybe they changed.....maybe it'll be different this time:rolleyes:
As far as the coil I'm at a loss ready to say it's 2 bad coils out of the box. Spark on the accel looks the same or worse than the msd to me. Jumps 3/8" no problem but looks orange even on a plug jumping .030.
Not sure what else I can check... the coil is the only variable left.
With the pip signal showing good with no discernible gaps in count, then wouldn't that rule out electrical noise?
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
If it runs better with the stock distributor that points to the distributor. Do you still have ignition breakup?
Try posting the log file I bet megalogviewer will support it.
 

87benjaminbrnr

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
16
0
1
38
Springfield,MO
The stock distributor runs better than the msd, but the car still will not run with the accel coil. At 3500 rpm it breaks up,spits, bucks ,and detonates. The fluttering I was seeing was on the dashboard tach. The readout from the ecu doesn't do the same jumping around. I'll see what I can do about posting the log file. Beware, i'm pretty new the the software.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,143
6,051
204
31
Hillsborough county
It's ok they are 2 separate signals, ECU gets the pip, tach gets the negative side of the coil. I assume you have swapped the tfi to try a new one right? The tach is seeing the coil drop...

Try this pull the spout and set the timing locked at 26* see if it still breaks up.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Saleen8786 Wheels for my notch??? Does this sound weird 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 8
T What's it Worth? 1993 calypso green notch What is it Worth?!?!? 12
F Electrical Tracking down my always full fuel gauge issue....89 Notch 2.3L (N/A & Turbo) Tech 3
F 93 LX 5.0 Notch - Finally getting started The Welcome Wagon 1
L 1988 LX notch resto The Welcome Wagon 1
P Electrical 1988 Notch firewall ground location Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 9
James V Fox Now this is... an interesting build. (2jz notch) 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 33
Cheapskate207 Progress Thread The Northwoods Notch: My `90 Coupe Project 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 101
L Wheels-Tires 86 notch sn95 wheel size help!! Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 0
Habu135 Stock 14K mile '92 Notch Dyno Video 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 22
C New Member 1990 Notch Project 66,000 Miles 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 7
F SOLD 1988 Notch Fox Body Mustangs For Sale (1979-93) 4
J Fox My 1990 Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 12
9 Front suspension help 93 notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 1
B For Sale For Sale 1993 Mustang SSP Coupe Fox Body Mustangs For Sale (1979-93) 0
BlakeusMaximus LMR's customer service is top notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 14
James V Progress Thread '93 Kenne Bell Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 296
T Hi, i have a 67 notch back mustang. The Welcome Wagon 0
Habu135 New Owner to a '93 Notch The Welcome Wagon 2
A 65 mustang shock tower notch kit 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk- 3
bahndrvr Definitely not a new member (joined in 2005), but beyond searching I'll finally be posting:) New to me 1983 4-Eye Notch in my possession now:) The Welcome Wagon 4
STROKED_LX Fuel 89 Notch, cranks no start (did check list) Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 4
Combat Medic Progress Thread '93 Notch street / strip 363 build 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 24
teebluestang Converting 4cyl notch to 8cyl Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 15
teebluestang Drivetrain 1989 4cycl notch Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 1
N SOLD Supercharged 1989 SSP Coupe $13,500 obo Fox Body Mustangs For Sale (1979-93) 13
B 93 LX Notch, 427 Sbf, N/A, PIMPxs Digital Self-tuning Forum 12
MTV593 Cobra IRS swap for 93 notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 26
Sketchy_GT Progress Thread 1984 Notch Street/Strip Build. 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 6
cbdallas 1982 3.3 Auto Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 10
MrFoxNutCase A Project Vid Of My 87 Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 6
J 93 Notch Wiring Issue? Need Help !!! Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 3
G What Oil To Use In 88 Notch Vortec Supercharged 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 16
9 SOLD 1990 Lx Notch, Des Moines Fox Body Mustangs For Sale (1979-93) 0
old_blue Craigslist Find. 1985 Notch 5.0 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 3
J Progress Thread Ole' Rusty 83 Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 23
J New 86 Notch From Columbus! The Welcome Wagon 2
87_notch_402 Fox 87 Notch Progresss 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 73
94redrocket Tires For My Notch 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 11
B Fox 85 Notch Vs 81 Camaro 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 12
M Help With Rack And Pinion, Input Shaft Without Notch?? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 3
MrFoxNutCase 87 Notch (project Divorce) Build Thread 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 28
MrFoxNutCase Ooops I Did It Again (2 Notches Better Than 1?) 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 6
N SN95 89 Notch Sn95.0 Swap?? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 4
old_blue Dusting The Notch Off... 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 15
Mr. Rustypwnz 93 Notch Build Finally! 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 38
The Chicagoan Hello, New To The Page, Just Bought My First Mustang! The Welcome Wagon 7
93Notchback93 1993 Notch Need Advice Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 7
Undeadknight26 Fox Hatch Lights Fit On A Notch? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 4
Similar threads