91blckgt's "about *&$# Time" Progress Thread

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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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All those nice shiny polished parts..... Its lookin' good man. [emoji106]
 

91BlckGT

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Finally wired up a 4ga wire instead of the crappy stock wire so the alternate can feed more juice:
hhHwWjNldhIz-7Y-d0UO0U5ZR1mbFrS8rZoxEfYrOjo2tniqD998s7T-H3yJ3agZnwrZpueuevhjtL57zY=w1689-h950-no.jpg
 

91BlckGT

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Well, it's finished! Got the radiator re-installed, and topped off the oil and coolant, still need to refill the power steering fluid though. After all the months of work to polish and put it back together, now I'm too nervous to start it. Will wait a day or two before powering it (got some late night work stuff to do). Hopefully it will be driven this weekend:
9MXVs-zrqdXusAoCrubUYjlK9F9JH0oQ8kPfur1FeeJ8Pln97aCB7aDeWKqYnt_oOgEBRJ5vTmOYutDVG_=w1689-h950-no.jpg

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Jersey Joe

I remember blowing that Monkey's ass
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Felt the same way when I finished putting mine together, I was scared to death to start it for the first time. Looks good.
 

mikestang63

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looks good.... Before you go to start it do a final visual of all wires, hoses, etc. make a checklist and go down the ist.. fluid levels.et... then I would disconnect the coil wire and turn the key and let it crank a few times to ensure it has oil pressure and you didnt leave anything unplugged, unhooked,... better to hear it then... I would buy a Lisle funnel to burp the air out of the system... when you fire it up... once you start it let it warm up and set the timing and base idle. check your gauges,, if no oil pressure shut it down .... after you start and run it for 15-20 minutes check your gauges again.... then I'd turn it off, check for leaks and then when it cools go back and retorque the intake bolts and check the exhaust and other bolts. Check the fluids. and for leaks... drain the oil after 500 miles and replace the filter, then hammer it and enjoy
 
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91BlckGT

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Great Advice Mike.

1. I lost TDC. I'm fairly certain (but didn't take a picture) that TDC was at the 0 mark on the balancer when I installed it. I've rotated it a little out of whack as I tightened the crankshaft bolt, but I think I can spin the engine backwards to where it goes. Every two rotations is TDC, right? I seem to recall that by staring at the keyslot on the engine.

2. Burp the radiator? Hmm, didn't know that was a thing. Guess I need to fill it all the way up, right? There is usually an air gap in the radiator, right? I found this funnel, but it doesn't discuss "burping": Amazon product
View: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24680-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B00A6AS6LY


3. Using the key to prime the pump using the starter is a great idea but... won't that inject fuel? That's going to result in a lot of excess fuel unless there is some way the computer knows that combustion hasn't occurred.
 

mikestang63

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Great Advice Mike.

1. I lost TDC. I'm fairly certain (but didn't take a picture) that TDC was at the 0 mark on the balancer when I installed it. I've rotated it a little out of whack as I tightened the crankshaft bolt, but I think I can spin the engine backwards to where it goes. Every two rotations is TDC, right? I seem to recall that by staring at the keyslot on the engine.

2. Burp the radiator? Hmm, didn't know that was a thing. Guess I need to fill it all the way up, right? There is usually an air gap in the radiator, right? I found this funnel, but it doesn't discuss "burping": Amazon product
View: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24680-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B00A6AS6LY


3. Using the key to prime the pump using the starter is a great idea but... won't that inject fuel? That's going to result in a lot of excess fuel unless there is some way the computer knows that combustion hasn't occurred.


1 Easy to find TDC. Disconnect the coil wire. Remove teh spark plug from #1. Put a small piece of tissue in the hole. Turn the crank clockwise slowly until you see the balancer mark line up with the pointer. You should see the tissue pop out. If you take a long flat head screw driver and carefully inser itt in #1 it should go down a bit and then contact the piston, If it is not TDC then it will go all the way in and then turn the crank until you see the tissue pop out again. Reinsert the screwdriver and it will be at TDC.

2. Yes burp the cooling system.. You will have air in sthe system. Buy a Lisle funnel. install it on the radiator affter filling up the system. Fill the funnel and then start the motor. the coolant will drop and air bubbles willl come up. Keep the funnel filled. Make sure the heater is on hot and the fan on high, When the stat opens and the heat is hot and you see no more bubbles, the system is burped. You can turn off the car, revmove the funnel and put the cap on. Make sure the overflow is at the correc level. Done

3. Thats why I said crank it for a few times so you dont wash down the cylinders. You dont want to let it crank for minutes. You also should prime the oild pump with a drill on reverse and a long 1/4 inch socket until you see the oil pressure rise. Cranking the motor with the cil off is simply to ensure you have pressure- NOT to build it..Like I said, better to find out before you run the motor.
 

91BlckGT

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Well, it won't start.

Primed the fuel system prior to starting, looked OK. I don't have a fuel pressure guage so I need to go buy one. I primed the oil as noted, checked the oil pressure in-cabin. Looks good.Tried turning it over, it burbled for a few seconds and died.

Can't find my ()*$&# timing light. Tore the house apart, but it wouldn't matter because the engine doesn't stay at speed long enough for me to take a timing. After advancing and retarding the degrees by hand a few times...

it still won't start...
and now it won't run at all, not even a few seconds.

So tomorrow i'll go buy a proper Fuel pressure gauge (was hoping it would at idle choppy tonight), and yet another timing light unless I find my first one.

Then to check spark, fuel, timing one by one.
 

FoxMustangLvr

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You may have the distributor put in wrong and wrong timing. The way I do it is I pull the #1 plug and put my finger over it. When I feel air over my finger I put in a screw driver and gently set it against the piston. I then turn the crank slowly as i watch the screw driver reach it's peak and as it stops rising I look at the crank pulley, it should read TDC. You now know you are at top dead center for #1. now you pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is facing, ah :poo:, what cylinder is it guys? Too much to drink and I forgot. Dang wisky
 
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91BlckGT

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You may have the distributor put in wrong and wrong timing. The way I do it is I pull the #1 plug and put my finger over it. When I feel air over my finger I put in a screw driver and gently set it against the piston. I then turn the crank slowly as i watch the screw driver reach it's peak and as it stops rising I look at the crank pulley, it should read TDC. You now know you are at top dead center for #1. now you pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is facing, ah ****, what cylinder is it guys? Too much to drink and I forgot. Dang wisky

It's quite possible. I set TDC and parked the distributor at that with the lines aligned, and set it to the 0 mark after pinning the distributor. Here's my plan for tomorrow:
  • Buy fuel pressure guage, and check for ~43 PSI at the regulator. I have an adjustable one, maybe the fuel isn't flowing.
  • Check to make sure I'm getting spark at each wire.
  • Make sure my spark plugs are fully seated.
  • Check the TDC as instructed above. Maybe I have it 180 out of turn.
  • Check for Vaccuum leaks.

Right now I'm nervous that I messed up the car. I tried cranking it about 15 times before giving up.

I did notice that it is REALLY hard to turn the engine by hand. Might be due to the valve spring pressure.

The good news? No leaks that I can find, assuming nothing is bent or busted. I'll update again tomorrow.
 
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jrichker

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Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected 5.0 Mustangs model years 1986-1995

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.


Revised 15-Sep-2014 to add temporarily bypassing the MSD box if it is present.

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch to the Run position. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD, Crane, or other ignition box if present - Bypass it and return to stock configuration if possible. Do this as a temporary measure to eliminate it as a possible problem source.
B.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed. See paragraph 5A – Using a noid light will tell if the PIP is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
C.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
D.) Coil
E.) No EEC or computer power - EEC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: EEC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
Both 86-93 and 94-95 models: No 12 volts with the ignition switch in the run position on the fuel injector red wires. The relay has failed or there is no power coming from the ignition switch. Make sure that there is 12 volts on the red/green wire on the coil before replacing the relay.
F.) No EEC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid. Look for a 20 gauge blue fuse link connected to 2 black/orange 14 gauge wires.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition switch with it in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position at the ignition switch but not at the coil, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp [fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer. Don’t replace the computer just because you don’t understand how it works. Computers seldom fail, it usually is a sensor or wiring problem that causes the problems.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red/blue wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


AutoZone wiring diagrams: You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via Repair Info | AutoZone.com and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 2-4 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.

attachment.php?attachmentid=68357&stc=1&d=1322348015.gif


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) The PIP sensor in the distributor tells the computer when to fire the injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed.
A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector circuit to see if the injectors are firing. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and try to start the engine: it will flash if the injector is firing.

I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
B.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
C.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
?temp_hash=3ef2497fff29a7a9daee955cf93e5805.jpg

The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.


D.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the EEC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
E.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.1.0 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently. If you removed the distributor, there is a good probability that you installed it 180 degrees out of time.
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it, if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
 

91BlckGT

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Excellent checklist. I started with Fuel Pressure, because I did not follow the Kirban instructions to the letter. I finally managed to locate my shraeder valve adapter, and plugged my Fuel pressure gauge in. It read 10psi (doh!) so I kept priming the fuel pump and ran it up to 44 PSI. Now I'm getting fuel. I'm leaving it connected while I keep testing. I picked up a spark / timing light / gap tester. I didn't gap my spark plugs when I put the new ones in, it's possible some are mis-gapped, but I doubt that's the problem.

NEuQURbpqYqtly01OBYZqxMv78bruWoBahGCgy4hXxerGOGSeRyvTgqpqJbWD7_7B06uWNYwszyRf6kg7c=w1280-h720-no.jpg


I'm going to go do the TDC test now that my baby's asleep. The car currently runs for about ~5 seconds, ultra choppy, and then dies. I have a vacuum guage too I'll test once I can get the engine running for more than a few seconds.
 

91BlckGT

Founding Member
May 24, 1999
2,386
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digitallights.com
Found that the distributor was in 180 degrees out of synch.
oj2V4NWJ_oQbU5BsjaF-JTp0q5qGdQSJbFdJ2wOUq4ONN7vAKrES17aManPHbg9caZJ5Cv8NzV9FkSYRWZ=w1689-h950-no.jpg


Yeesh. So I found TDC using the tricks above, reinstalled the distributor, turned the key and...


NADA.

Now the starter isn't turning over at all. I didn't notice an odd squeaking noise as I rotated the engine by hand. It takes a lot of torque to move the engine by hand, not a breaker bar, but a good 10" socket wrench and some elbow grease. I know the valve springs are heavier, but I hope nothing seized up in there.

now to contemplate what to do about the starter. My son woke up from his nap so I have to take a huge break until the wife gets home...
 

91BlckGT

Founding Member
May 24, 1999
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This is what mine looked like, rotor at #1 plug wire.

Hmm, i do remember that I had the distributor cable fairly well stretched before, but the way the it's sitting now I've verified, having sat and watched the piston at the top. Here's the interesting thing though, it stopped moving at 10 degrees advance on the balancer, not at 0. Does that imply something is wrong?

Anyway, I pulled it again, and lined it up like you have it (also read a lengthy post elsewhere about it). Felt that I had it right, put it all back together...

Turns over, doesn't run. Going to restart the checklist above at spark, and see if something isn't connected properly.