97 Mustang Gt Vert Body Roll

97Stangk5h

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
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New york
Hello all. Happy New Year. I have a 97 gt convertible with 93k miles on it. I have always had excessive what feels like body roll with this car. I have full length subframe connectors, new koni strt orange shocks and struts, STOCK Springs,stock front strut tower brace the triangle brace, stock k member brace, rear shock tower brace tack welded in, new bfg G force comp 2 tires, fresh alignment, 17x9 cobra rims and 245 tires around, new upper and lower control arms, stock replacement uppers and poly mm lowers, poly front sway bar end links and stock size front and rear sway bars. New steering shaft and rag joint, tie rods have no play, new ball joints. My problem is it seems like no matter what I do this car always seems like it has excessive amounts of body roll. Over bumps especially! Hitting a bump while turning sometimes feels very sketchy. The only things I have not replaced are the springs and front control arms. I really do not want to lower the car because it already feels stiff with the stock springs and koni shocks. Plus the Pypes h pipe will come very close to scraping everything is I lower it. To me Lowering it will just intensify the feeling that the car is going to self destruct. I had a lowered 03 and hated it. That car also felt like it was going to self destruct over bumps with frp b springs and orange koni shocks. Anyway is there anything else to check that will make the car have crazy body roll? Are there body bushings that the shell sits on? It just feels like no matter what I do this thing always feels like a boat on the ocean. Tramlines also. So add the traimlining and loose feeling over bumps and you know how that feels. I know it’s a convertible and you don’t not have the top structure for support but everyone I ask that has a stang very says theirs feels fine. I do not get and I don’t want to sell the car just yet. Please any help for me? Thank you!
 

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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Do you have a caliper to measure the sizes of bars on your car? They have charts of the sizes that were factory available at the link.
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
59
19
18
Virginia
Hello all. Happy New Year. I have a 97 gt convertible with 93k miles on it. I have always had excessive what feels like body roll with this car. I have full length subframe connectors, new koni strt orange shocks and struts, STOCK Springs,stock front strut tower brace the triangle brace, stock k member brace, rear shock tower brace tack welded in, new bfg G force comp 2 tires, fresh alignment, 17x9 cobra rims and 245 tires around, new upper and lower control arms, stock replacement uppers and poly mm lowers, poly front sway bar end links and stock size front and rear sway bars. New steering shaft and rag joint, tie rods have no play, new ball joints. My problem is it seems like no matter what I do this car always seems like it has excessive amounts of body roll. Over bumps especially! Hitting a bump while turning sometimes feels very sketchy. The only things I have not replaced are the springs and front control arms. I really do not want to lower the car because it already feels stiff with the stock springs and koni shocks. Plus the Pypes h pipe will come very close to scraping everything is I lower it. To me Lowering it will just intensify the feeling that the car is going to self destruct. I had a lowered 03 and hated it. That car also felt like it was going to self destruct over bumps with frp b springs and orange koni shocks. Anyway is there anything else to check that will make the car have crazy body roll? Are there body bushings that the shell sits on? It just feels like no matter what I do this thing always feels like a boat on the ocean. Tramlines also. So add the traimlining and loose feeling over bumps and you know how that feels. I know it’s a convertible and you don’t not have the top structure for support but everyone I ask that has a stang very says theirs feels fine. I do not get and I don’t want to sell the car just yet. Please any help for me? Thank you!
I have the Ford M-5300-C springs, and I get the issues of lowered as far as clearance goes. Of course lowering, in and of itself, does not make the car stiffer. For the "C" springs, the part I feel is the 650# front spring rate. I think I needed the stiffness in the back, and, except for the occasional speed bump, I don't mind the lowering. The car does handle better. You might consider the "B" springs. I believe the rears are a little stiffer than GT springs (same as the "C"), but the fronts are the stock GT rate. I'm thinking of swapping to them to get my wife back in my car. :).
That said, since you seem mostly concerned about body roll, why not change your sway bars? They attack body roll directly with much less impact on ride. They can make hitting a bump with one wheel a bit stiffer, but actually might make one wheel dropping into a pot hole less harsh, and have no effect on spring rate when both wheels move. You can even use adjustable end-links to tune initial action to help the ride.
I love the big Steeda front bar, and recently purchased an Addco add-on rear bar (#677, 7/8") with the Steeda end-link springs (555-1083) to make the end-links adjustable (not installed yet) FYI, you will need longer 6" x 3/8" Grade 5 or 8 bolts for the end-links if you use the Steeda end-link springs. Steeda used to sell a 5/8" version of this bar (006-1STA, made for them by Addco). Again, it is an Add-on bar (so, two in the rear). The only thing I am expecting is to maybe reduce the size of the factory rear bar if I oversteer too much (too much rear roll stiffness) with the larger Addco version.
Here are some specs for 1979 - 2004 Mustang spring rates for the factory springs. I hope some of this helps. I do think your answer will be sway bars.
.
1649678612854.png
 

manicmechanic007

Mustang Master
Sep 26, 2017
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Stiffer sway bars?
Used to see the rear ones break on the cars that were road real hard
They were hollow. wtf
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
59
19
18
Virginia
Stiffer sway bars?
Used to see the rear ones break on the cars that were road real hard
They were hollow. wtf
I have heard that, but have never seen it. They are junkyard items if it happens. But the Addco bar is anything but hollow. It looks to be a very nice piece. The setup I am using is almost identical to the setup "Warhorse Racing" uses. I have never heard him mention breaking a factory bar, and he does seem to give his rides a workout. Check him on YouTube.
 
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manicmechanic007

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Sep 26, 2017
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I have an Addco on mine too
Can you jack with the end links to make it tighter?
Does yours sit in the factory position?
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
59
19
18
Virginia
I have an Addco on mine too
Can you jack with the end links to make it tighter?
Does yours sit in the factory position?
Not sure what you are asking...
I can crank on the end-links until the springs are solid. That maximizes the bar.
As far as position goes. It is an Add-on bar. The factory bar is still in its original location.
This picture is a bit misleading (we don't have leaf springs), but it locates the bar appropriately.
So, under the axle, not between the control arms like the factory bar.
This thread on "Autocrossing my 95 GT convertible"...
covers all I had to say about the Addco bar and setting up the end-links with longer bolts and the Steeda end-link springs.
1649687681164.png
 

manicmechanic007

Mustang Master
Sep 26, 2017
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Yes, No springs would be a start
Looking to get it to have some big tension just sitting there like a factory sway bar
Where you have to twist the bar to get the second link in
Or the factory rear ones where you have to pry them up into position
So for your rear bar you could go solid sleeve and 3 inch or so on one side and 5 inch or so on the other
That would build in some twist right? And have some tension just sitting there level (is what I would be trying to achieve)
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
59
19
18
Virginia
Yes, No springs would be a start
Looking to get it to have some big tension just sitting there like a factory sway bar
Where you have to twist the bar to get the second link in
Or the factory rear ones where you have to pry them up into position
So for your rear bar you could go solid sleeve and 3 inch or so on one side and 5 inch or so on the other
That would build in some twist right? And have some tension just sitting there level (is what I would be trying to achieve)
I'm not sure how your plan goes with the original problem. 97Stangk5h said their problem was excessive body roll, for which I suggest sway bars. Another comment was, "this car always seems like it has excessive amounts of body roll. Over bumps especially! Hitting a bump while turning sometimes feels very sketchy.", which has me wondering about his Orange Konis, or the general health of his front end (tie rods, ball joints and bushings) but that is another issue.
In either case, what you are suggesting has (as I see it) no value for 97Stangk5h.
If you are bringing it up as an aside (not for 97Stangk5h), I have never tried anything like that. It seems to me the result would be to build in some twist (as you said) basically preloading the bar for cornering in one direction and handicapping it in the other. It sounds a lot like a NASCAR thing to me, not street, autocross, or road course. You might even be able to use it as a drag race thing to try to plant the right rear tire. What are you looking to accomplish?
 
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Bill95

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Apr 9, 2005
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Virginia
I'm not sure how your plan goes with the original problem. 97Stangk5h said their problem was excessive body roll, for which I suggest sway bars. Another comment was, "this car always seems like it has excessive amounts of body roll. Over bumps especially! Hitting a bump while turning sometimes feels very sketchy.", which has me wondering about his Orange Konis, or the general health of his front end (tie rods, ball joints and bushings) but that is another issue.
In either case, what you are suggesting has (as I see it) no value for 97Stangk5h.
If you are bringing it up as an aside (not for 97Stangk5h), I have never tried anything like that. It seems to me the result would be to build in some twist (as you said) basically preloading the bar for cornering in one direction and handicapping it in the other. It sounds a lot like a NASCAR thing to me, not street, autocross, or road course. You might even be able to use it as a drag race thing to try to plant the right rear tire. What are you looking to accomplish?
And, reading your entry again, let me add that I expect no tension in a factory bar installed on a car sitting on a level surface.
 

manicmechanic007

Mustang Master
Sep 26, 2017
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Preload to corner one way better than the other what?
A sway bar has no effect on cornering
Body roll is it
Adding preload to the bar will stiffen it in both directions
The guy was talking about excess body roll on his vert
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
59
19
18
Virginia
Oka
Preload to corner one way better than the other what?
A sway bar has no effect on cornering
Body roll is it
Adding preload to the bar will stiffen it in both directions
The guy was talking about excess body roll on his vert
Okay, you just said, "A sway bar has no effect on cornering". I don't even know what to say there.
And "Body roll", the problem, is a result of cornering.
When you enter a corner, the outside wheel moves up (relative to the body) and the inside wheel moves down (relative to the body) this suspension movement is what twists the sway bar, and the twist is what resists the body roll. (Yes, I know both wheels actually stayed on the ground. It is relative motion.) The sway bar is a torsion style spring. You can make it stiffer by increasing the diameter, or by shortening the effective length of the "arms" of the bar. End-links serve more to determine how soon the effect of the bar comes in.
Preloading it, as you suggest would create a situation where one turn had the bar trying to twist more (I guess you can call that stiffer) but the other direction would have it unwinding, literally helping the car roll in that direction.
To put a 5" link on one side (with a 3" link on the other), you would have to disconnect and jack that side of the bar up 2". In doing this, the bar would be trying to lift the other side 2". But that side is still connected and would be fighting the spring and gravity letting the wheel go up. If you got the link in and hooked up, the bar would be trying to unwind and shove the 5" wheel down (and lift the 3" wheel up). It makes me dizzy thinking about it, but again, I think only NASCAR would do that. In any case, it does not make the bar stiffer, it just preloads it in one direction.
 

97Stangk5h

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
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New york
Just clarifying: I have installed the sr performance sway bars from Americn muscle. I’ve also added aluminum rack bushings and the car now rides amazing. I’m very happy with the outcome. I forgot I even posted this. The car has been riding great lately.
 
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97Stangk5h

New Member
Oct 26, 2021
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1
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37
New york
Just clarifying: I have installed the sr performance sway bars from Americn muscle. I’ve also added aluminum rack bushings and the car now rides amazing. I’m very happy with the outcome. I forgot I even posted this. The car has been riding great lately. I think it’s 35mm front bar and solid 28mm rear bar. I have not lowered it still on stock springs and actually loving it. I don’t care about the 4x4 stance.
 

manicmechanic007

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Sep 26, 2017
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The bar does not turn it for you is what I meant when I said the bar does nothing for cornering
Just trying to help
Glad it is cornering good for you
 

Bill95

Member
Apr 9, 2005
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19
18
Virginia
The bar does not turn it for you is what I meant when I said the bar does nothing for cornering
Just trying to help
Glad it is cornering good for you
We're all just trying to help. I know I appreciate input from EVERYONE. Some of it really makes me think (Thanks, manicmechanic07). Anyway, I'm glad sway bars were the solution. I thought they would get you where you wanted to be.