98 3.8L replaced leaking therm gasket, can't seem to burp system now

[dchall89]

Hi, I replaced a leaking thermostat gasket, and threw in a new thermostat because I was in there. I have read the procedure where you take off the bleed valve on top of housing and fill radiator and then top off bleeder valve. A few issues I'm having:

1.) When I am filling up bleeder valve it makes radiator overflow. From what I'm reading, the bleeder should fill with fluid and then I tighten down but this doesn't happen. It simply starts coming out of the radiator.
2.) When I turn the car on, with the rad cap off, the fluid starts to pour out of the radiator cap. What is this about? I'm worried it's water pump related.

Thanks!

 

[wmburns]

Are you using the correct T-stat for the application? IE, bleeder valve (as factory)?

Are you over thinking this? IE, does it work if you just close the system up and let it warm up? One of the keys of the V6 procedure is to not re-open the bleeder valve:

• With the motor running
• Unless the motor is stone cold.

 

[dchall89]

Are you using the correct T-stat for the application? IE, bleeder valve (as factory)?

Are you over thinking this? IE, does it work if you just close the system up and let it warm up? One of the keys of the V6 procedure is to not re-open the bleeder valve:

• With the motor running
• Unless the motor is stone cold.

Thanks for helping, yes tsat is same temp I pulled out (oem fit) from big box store. So let me give some more information about what happened. I have to number it because my brain works that way. haha
1.) reconnected everything and troqued
2.) opened bleeder valve
3.) fill rad with fluid till it got to top
4.) poured a little fluid into bleeder valve hole (this is where it started coming out of the radiator hole)
5.) replaced bleeder valve (but let rad cap off)
6.) started car with heat on max
7.) less than 5 minutes in coolant starts rising out of the radiator and pouring out onto the ground.

So I thought that I might be overthinking it and put the cap back on, but no go there's LOTS of air in the system still and I was steaming from radiator cap 20 minutes later.
I have let the engine cool for a few hours and I'm going to try another burping cycle. I'll take a video too.

I just wouldn't think air in the system would cause the fluid to come out when it's still cold and the tstat hasn't opened yet. I'm worreid I'll be buying a radiator soon.

 

[wmburns]

I just wouldn't think air in the system would cause the fluid to come out when it's still cold and the tstat hasn't opened yet. I'm worreid I'll be buying a radiator soon.

IMO you should be more concerned about a head gasket leak or a cracked block.

 

[dchall89]

IMO you should be more concerned about a head gasket leak or a cracked block.

Yeah Ford dealership near me said they saw fluid in the combustion chamber, couldn't confirm if it was head gasket or block or what. I don't have oil in fluid and I don't have fluid in oil. So I don't know. I brought it in for a vibration at 2k rpms because they had done flywheel work and it didn't have a vibration before that....but they told me it fluid in one of the chambers so I thought they were pulling my leg. They never did compression test either. So frustrating. Why would a headgasket or cracked block cause fluid to bubble out of radiator when everything is cold? I just took a video of my filling up bleeder and rad cold and it only took under 3 minutes for it to start coming out of radiator. I'll have it posted here once it uploads.

 

[wmburns]

Why guess? Test!

Compression test and/or a cylinder leak down test.

They also make a special kit to test for combustion byproducts in the coolant.

Or perform a cooling system pressure test.

Fluid in the combustion chamber could also be from a leaking intake gasket.

I don't have a clue why there's air in the cooling system. But if this were my car I would be concerned. I wouldn't put any money into repairs until I knew for certain about the health of the motor itself. Then at the very least you can move forward with your eyes wide open.

 

[dchall89]

Alright here's the video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPpFjHEDHlw


I also ran Blue Devil through it this morning to see if that would help the maybe issue of a headgasket or cracked block.

I'm going to see if one of the car stores rents a compression test or leak down test. If they don't I'll buy the combustion byproducts test.

Thank you again for your time. If head gasket is blown, I'll be selling the car (obviously telling the buyer there's an issue) too much time and effort for me. Hoping it's not, and hoping blue devil worked lol

 

[wmburns]

I also ran Blue Devil through it this morning to see if that would help the maybe issue of a headgasket or cracked block.

I hate to hear this. That product has out lived it's usefulness on most modern cars. With the type of gaskets used the size of the leaks are sooooooo large that no product could hope to seal it. Often there's much more collateral damage caused by clogged radiators and sediment mixed with the product than what problems it "might" solve.

Your post made it sound like tons of air bubbles come up as soon as the motor is started. From the video that doesn't look so bad to me. What happens if the motor is allowed to reach full operating temperature and cool down a couple of times?

A motor with an internal cooling jacket leak will continue to get air on the inside. Where as a good motor will find a working level and stay there.

 

[dchall89]

Your post made it sound like tons of air bubbles come up as soon as the motor is started. From the video that doesn't look so bad to me. What happens if the motor is allowed to reach full operating temperature and cool down a couple of times?

I had moved my drain pan and couldn't find it or I would have let it keep going. It'll just keep going over in a slowish fashion. I've let it do that once to operating temp. But when tstat opened, temp dropped on gauge but nothing seemed to change in radiator. I'll do it again tomorrow with cap off to operating temp and see. Did everything else look okay as far as bleeder valve filling? Eventually I should be able to leave cap off while it climbs to operating temp without fluid pouring out right?

 

[wmburns]

Did everything else look okay as far as bleeder valve filling? Eventually I should be able to leave cap off while it climbs to operating temp without fluid pouring out right?

NO!!!!!!!! Why? Most everything in the world expands when it get hot. Coolant is no exception.

I believe that you are over thinking this or there's something fundamental that you don't understand about the process. It was never part of the process to be able to have the motor at full operating temperature with the radiator cap off. The cooling system is DESIGNED to run under pressure.

Put the cap on. Leave it on. Warm the motor to full operating temperature and let it cool down without opening the cap. What you really want to see is where the level is after several heat/cool cycles. With the cap on the heat and cool down cycles will pull the last bits of air out of the system.

IF there is still large amount of air in the cooling system after several heat/cool cycles (checking only on a cold motor), then look for a possible problem.

 

[dchall89]

NO!!!!!!!! Why? Most everything in the world expands when it get hot. Cooling is no exception.

I believe that you are over thinking this or there's something fundamental that you don't understand about the process. It was never part of the process to be able to have the motor at full operating temperature with the radiator cap off. The cooling system is DESIGNED to run under pressure.

Put the cap on. Leave it on. Warm the motor to full operating temperature and let it cool down without opening the cap. What you really want to see is where the level is after several heat/cool cycles. With the cap on the heat and cool down cycles will pull the last bits of air out of the system.

Got it. I am very good at overthinking. I am going to do several cycles and see how that goes. Thanks again for your input. Seriously. I'll report back probably around the first of the year.

 

[dchall89]

NO!!!!!!!! Why? Most everything in the world expands when it get hot. Coolant is no exception.

I believe that you are over thinking this or there's something fundamental that you don't understand about the process. It was never part of the process to be able to have the motor at full operating temperature with the radiator cap off. The cooling system is DESIGNED to run under pressure.

Put the cap on. Leave it on. Warm the motor to full operating temperature and let it cool down without opening the cap. What you really want to see is where the level is after several heat/cool cycles. With the cap on the heat and cool down cycles will pull the last bits of air out of the system.

IF there is still large amount of air in the cooling system after several heat/cool cycles (checking only on a cold motor), then look for a possible problem.

View: https://youtu.be/XkUDQLVr0jE


Does this just mean I still have air in the system? No leaks....externally anyways, and no visible reasons so suggest internally.

 

[wmburns]

Does this just mean I still have air in the system? No leaks....externally anyways, and no visible reasons so suggest internally.

The usual symptom is a loss of heater output. How many heat and cool cycles has the motor experienced.

Suggestion. Let the motor fully cool down. Remove the radiator cap. Is the coolant right at the neck?

Now removed the bleeder screw with the motor off and cold. Is the coolant right at the top of the bleeder tube?

 

[dchall89]

The usual symptom is a loss of heater output. How many heat and cool cycles has the motor experienced.

Suggestion. Let the motor fully cool down. Remove the radiator cap. Is the coolant right at the neck?

Now removed the bleeder screw with the motor off and cold. Is the coolant right at the top of the bleeder tube?

Thanks again for helping. After cool down Coolant is right at neck at radiator cap, but it is not at top of bleeder tube. But I have solid heat at all times whether parked or driving. Overflow tank shows lower coolant level than I put in after engine cools down too, so I know it's pulling coolant in after it cools down.

 

[wmburns]

but it is not at top of bleeder tube.

IF there is a problem it mostly will show itself as additional air in the cooling jacket right at the bleeder tube.

I would also be concerned about wild swings in the dash temperature gauge especially if driving at steady state curse.

Note, it is possible that the dash temperature gauge is affected by changes in system voltage. That's one reason why a review of the charging system should be done at the start of trouble shooting.

If the wild temperature swings continue, some thought will need to be given to where the air may be coming from.