99 Auto Swapped Into 03 Manual... Help!!

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by 03GTRNGS, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Hello everyone,

    I am new here and am looking to solve an issue that I have come across. A little back story to start. I have a 1999 4.6 2v motor and trans that I pulled from the car and have transplanted into the shell of a 2003 GT car that was originally a standard.

    The swap went well, quite straightforward. I have hooked everything up electrically, grounds etc. I have swapped the cluster, ignition switch, lock cylinder, pats module, and PCM as well. When I hook up the battery, I have power to everything it seems, the cooling fan turns on, I can hear everything under the hood getting power, but when I turn the key I get NO CRANK NO START.

    When I get under the car and jump the terminals on the starter, the starter kicks, but the motor still doesn't crank.

    I am at a loss here, anything that can get me going in the right direction would be awesome!
     
  2. Normally when the cooling fans runs at initial key on for no reason that means no PCM power or bad PCM.

    Have you VERIFIED power to the PCM? Are you able to talk to the PCM with an ODB2 scanner?

    Does the anti-theft system (PATS) prove out?

    Here's some more information that may help.

    1996+ Crank with no start check list
    http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/4-6l-tech/336452-1997-mustang-wont-ignite.html#2984838

    OBTW, there are electrical differences between the 1999 and 2003 model year. There are differences in:
    • the AC clutch control
    • the CCRM itself
    • several wiring harness changes.
    • wiring to the Cluster.
    • There are also differences between the manual and automatic.
    • There are also differences between the V6 and V8 versions.
    The problem is that many of the differences are very small but matter when mixing/matching parts from different model years. This is where having a full set of Ford wiring diagrams can be a huge help. If interested in getting a set for yourself I maybe able to help. PM if interested.
     
    #2 wmburns, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  3. I have hooked up a scanner to the OBD port and it gave me a key in ignition code. So I assume that means there is power to the PCM. If not the case, how do I test that there is power there?

    The vehicle is not in PATS. Theft light is not flashing and the odometer is showing mileage, not dashes.

    The PCM was working perfectly fine in the 99 before I started the swap.

    I have deleted the AC, so I am not sure that will be an issue any more.

    Where is the CCRM located and should I swap that with the one from the 99?

    For the manual to automatic, I got under the dash and bypassed the neutral safety switch at the clucth pedal.
     
  4. IF the PCM communicates with an ODB2 scanner such that the ODB2 scanner can read the DTC codes likely the PCM is getting power.

    I know there are differences between the 1999-2000 and 2001+ CCRM. But some of the differences have corresponding changes in the wiring harness. But it seems like it would be worth the effort to swap in the 1999 CCRM. The CCRM is located inside the front right fender well.

    Possible there are other reasons for the crank with no start. Suggest working through the "crank with no start check list".

    Do you have access to an ODB2 scanner that is capable of reading operational data? If so, monitor RPM's during cranking. Does it change?

    Also handy to know what the PCM "thinks" the values are for:
    • MAF flow during cranking.
    • fuel pressure
    • Confirm that the RPM's change during cranking.
    Also test for and confirm key on +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Use a known good ground.
     
  5. Did you use the automatic wiring harness from the auto car when you did the swap so the neutral safety switch is plugged into the PCM? Is the neutral safety switch set correctly?
     
  6. I initially read this incorrectly. Just to be sure we are on the same game page. Confirm if the starter motor is able to crank the motor over when the stater solenoid is jumped.

    If the symptom is "no crank", then confirm that you are able to bar the motor over by hand. Obviously if unable to bar the motor over by hand then the starter won't be able to either.

    Next confirm there is +12 volts in/out fuse F2.6 with the key in the "crank" position. Use a KNOWN good ground.

    If there's no power in fuse F2.6 then suspect a bad ignition switch.

    Double check that all of the motor grounds have been firmly re-attached. This include the motor to battery negative as well as the frame grounding strap on the left hand motor mount.

    1999-2004 BJB CJB fuse panel layout:
    http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...r-swap-wont-fire-please-help.html#post2669271
     
  7. sorry for not staying in touch so quickly.

    I got the car to start today, but had to go about it to circumvent a problem.

    I swapped the CCRM from the 99 to the 03. Put a test light on the starter and am getting power to the bigger terminal, but nothing to the small one when the key is turned. I performed a test by putting the positive side of a jumper cable on the small terminal of the starter, had my brother turn the key to start and I touched the other end of the positive jumper cable to the battery and it started.

    I am leaning toward this being a bad starter relay? Thoughts on that?
     
  8. Have you confirmed there is power in/out of fuse F2.6 with the key in the start position?

    Did the starter relay work before all the work was done? IF so it's not reasonable to jump first to the conclusion of a bad starter relay. IMO it more reasonable to conclude there's:
    • A wring fault in the neutral safety circuit (NSS). Perhaps a missing jumper from the swap.
    • A blown fuse.
    • bad ignition switch.
    However it possible to test the starter relay by jumping directly or swapping with another relay.

    Or confirm there is +12 volts with the key in the "start" position coming into the starter relay pin #85. Again use a known good ground.

    Confirm there is a good ground on starter relay pin #86.

    Inject +12 volts into starter relay pin #87. This should cause the starter to engage. Be sure in neutral or park.
     
  9. *** UPDATE ***

    The car now starts and runs!!

    However, It will only run if the MAF is disconnected. Should I jump into replacing the MAF or are there other things I should check first?

    Ryan
     
  10. A vacuum leak after the MAF can mimic a bad MAF, when you disconnect the MAF the car will run in limp mode. I have also heard of O2 Sensors causing a problem. Still learning myself but other more knowledgeable people will chime in, this a great forum to learn on.
     
  11. It might help others if you mentioned what the problem turned out to be and how you solved it. And if the forum information helped or not.
     
  12. my bad! I was unable to get the car to start with just the key like normal, I installed a momentary starter button. I also swapped out the CCRM.

    The information here absolutely helped me, I would have never known what or where to find the CCRM and that it was even related to the starting issue.

    My latest issue if the car only runs with the MAF disconnected. While idling, if I plug it in, the car stalls out within seconds.