Progress Thread ace305 - Engine Build

[ace305]

Didn't find it in the manuals but let me ask what might be a stupid question. Did the 2001 Romeo 2V heads have a girdle?

Edit: Are you going to be able to use studs for your heads in your car?

Yes sir it has a girdle.

I am going with new Ford head bolts

 

[wmburns]

can someone confirm the PI 2001 Romeo cam girdle bolt torque?

My Ford Service manual says the cam bearing bolts torque is 10 Nm (89 lb-in). Not very much. Not torque to yield.

Regarding keeping everything clean. I feel your pain. I'm currently over hauling a GM 3.5 OHV (VIN N LZ4). I have done several motor swaps but this is my first refresh over haul with new bearings, rings, gaskets, head job. It's amazing just how much "stuff" just falls out of the air each time I take off the engine stand cover. Not to mention keeping any dirt/grime on the outside from getting inside.

Regarding the initial prime. In my case the machine shop lent me their DIY solution. It's an old Ford oil pump with a PCV pick up tube in a bucket. A power drill to drive. It worked well enough to find a low oil flow problem with no oil passing through the #1 push rod. I'm still trouble shooting the issue.

The GM 3.5 LZ4 OHV uses an old style gear pump that needs to be primed to work best. However turning the oil pump with a drill won't prime the top end on this style motor.

The 4.6 uses a gerotor pump crank driven pump. The advantage of a gerotor pump is it's self priming. What I have done:

• filled the oil filter to reduce time needed to build pressure.
• disabled the fuel system so the motor won't start.
• If possible crank without the spark plugs out.
• crank the motor (in reasonable burst) until oil is seen in the valve covers through the oil filler neck.

For a new build the assembly lube should protect the parts during the initial prime cranking.

In my experience that even when the oil pump itself has been replaced the oil is seen in the top in surprisingly quick.

Obviously if you have easy access to a pressure pre-lube tool then that's the best. But there are other "options".

Keep up the good work!

EDIT: June 30th 2018. After 5 months got the 3.5 motor back into my 2007 Pontiac G6 hard top convertible. Disabled the fuel system and cranked until oil pressure light went out. Enabled fuel system cycling the key on/pause/off several times to build fuel pressure. Motor fired up on the 2nd crank! Sounded good. No valve noise.

As of the time of writing the 500 mile break in oil is still in place but the car is driveable and the motor is running well. Gas mileage is down but this may be old gas and the PCM needing to "re-learn". Will have to put many more miles on the car to really tell if I have done a quality rebuild.

 

[ace305]

My Ford Service manual says the cam bearing bolts torque is 10 Nm (89 lb-in). Not very much.

Regarding keeping everything clean. I feel your pain. I'm currently over hauling a GM 3.5 OHV (VIN N LZ4). I have done several motor swaps but this is my first refresh over haul with new bearings, rings, gaskets, head job. It's amazing just how much "stuff" just falls out of the air each time I take off the engine stand cover. Not to mention keeping any dirt/grime on the outside from getting inside.

Regarding the initial prime. In my case the machine shop lent me their DIY solution. It's an old Ford oil pump with a PCV pick up tube in a bucket. A power drill to drive. It worked well enough to find a low oil flow problem with no oil passing through the #1 push rod. I'm still trouble shooting the issue.

The GM 3.5 OHV uses an old style gear pump that needs to be primed to work best. However turning the oil pump with a drill won't prime the top end.

The 4.6 uses a gerotor pump crank driven pump. The advantage of a gerotor pump is it's self priming. What I have done:

• filled the oil filter to reduce time needed to build pressure.
• disabled the fuel system so the motor won't start.
• If possible crank without the spark plugs out.
• crank the motor (in reasonable burst) until oil is seen in the valve covers through the oil filler neck.

For a new build the assembly lube should protect the parts during the initial prime cranking.

In my experience that even when the oil pump itself has been replaced the oil is seen in the top in surprisingly quick.

Obviously if you have easy access to a pressure pre-lube tool then that's the best. But there are other "options".

Keep up the good work!

Awesome thank you. Do you know if the Cam girdle bolts are TTY? With such little torque required.

 

[I only know what I know]

Sorry ace, my mistake. The ladder caps are not what I know as a girdle. 71-106 in-lbs in my manuals and nothing about backing off and retightening or plus an x amount of degrees.

Just a thought to consider, being this a first for you get some head bolts that can be used more than once like ARP. Studs are the best option but in a lot of cars today you have to remove the engine to get the heads off when studs are used.

 

[ace305]

Sorry ace, my mistake. The ladder caps are not what I know as a girdle. 71-106 in-lbs in my manuals and nothing about backing off and retightening or plus an x amount of degrees.

Just a thought to consider, being this a first for you get some head bolts that can be used more than once like ARP. Studs are the best option but in a lot of cars today you have to remove the engine to get the heads off when studs are used.

did it say they are TTY?

thanks again for the help

 

[I only know what I know]

No, it said tighten to 71 - 106 in lbs. Yield is used in a lot of different ways but yield strength is how much force can be applied until plastic deformation begins. This is why a torque wrench is necessary and both inch and foot ponds is needed.

If you would, how have you been tightening your bolts?

 

[ace305]

No, it said tighten to 71 - 106 in lbs. Yield is used in a lot of different ways but yield strength is how much force can be applied until plastic deformation begins. This is why a torque wrench is necessary and both inch and foot ponds is needed.

If you would, how have you been tightening your bolts?

Awesome thanks.

 

[ace305]

I got my block back finally. Did some painting

 

[I only know what I know]

Sorry if I missed it but what all did you have done?

 

[ace305]

The block was is awesome shape. The cylinders were straightened with a CNC Rottler. Really bad ass machine. Had the rings file fit and the new crank oil holes chamfered.

Diamond Racing in Louisiana is top notch. One man shop.

 

[I only know what I know]

Impressive. I'll say it again, you're doing this right.

 

[ace305]

Impressive. I'll say it again, you're doing this right.

thanks. I have no clue what I am doing. I hope it runs!

 

[ace305]

Well I set the crank and the counterweights are hitting the block. I was hoping I would not run into this problem. Its hard to tell where its hitting. I was aware the some blocks have this issue with the stroker crank.

 

[ace305]

found the issue. All good now

 

[ace305]

Can anyone help with installing Clevite Thrust main bearing on a Romeo?

 

[ace305]

So I am using MMR main bolts and side bolts. Not TTY. they are not studs. I am looking for the torque specs on the bolts. I am sure its different from studs and stock TTY. any help?

 

[ace305]

Progress

Main clearance is perfect

 

[ace305]

Amazing feeling after torquing main caps down, crank turned like butter. I was more than nervous.

 

[ace305]

update.

Pistons are in.
Almost mad a catastrophic mistake. I did not know I had to upgrade to the 3v/4v Oil pump pick up tube. I had it all bolted in and something made me question the O ring gasket. Come to find out the 2V pick up will bolt up but would have destroyed the engine. I got lucky. At this point being a first time engine builder, I won't be surprised if it blows up with in 5 min of running.

Main cap and rod bearing tolerances are in spec.

 

[ace305]

finished