awing's 347 ms3 v3

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
Hi everyone, this is my first car build. I'm using an MS3 V3 (diy) wired into the factory harness. I changed to GM sensors, IAT is in intake tube way ahead of TB. I have my e-fan wired into a solid state relay receiving a PWM signal from MS.

347 dart 8.2
4.125" bore x 3.25" stroke
~9:1 compression
AFR 185 heads
Trick Flow R intake
75mm TB
Custom cam: .600" / .600"
Duration @ .050: 230* / 237*
Lobe sep: 112*
1 5/8" longtubes, 2.5" dual exhaust, X pipe, single chamber mufflers
180F t-stat
Autolite 3924 gapped at 0.040
Stock TFI ignition
42 lb delphi injectors, used data from http://www.efidynotuning.com/injdata.htm
40 psi fuel pressure, manifold referenced

I started auto-tuning while highway cruising, works well. Car wants to break up past 3k RPM. Thought it may be fouled plugs because I was way rich but did the same on new plugs and better AFR. Will free rev passed 3k okay.

Had a charging problem with the car, finally worked that out. Something got into my heater core and the car, lets say, isn't nice to drive right now. Always something.
 

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a91what

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Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
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break up under load is likely caused by the climbing AFR readings, your AFR table is incredibly rich all over the place.... your never going to be able to keep a set of plugs in the car at that rate... I assume gasoline yes?
what wideband are you using?
 

a91what

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Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
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I basically want you to start over with this tune file, all i did was take your file and load in a new AFR and IGN table along with a few settings for ego control.
change the plugs they are for sure fouled out. then autotune on this file for a bit. once your done autotuning, take a clean datalog - DO NOT RUN AUTOTUNE during the datalog... this way i can see what other changes i can suggest to you.
 

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awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
break up under load is likely caused by the climbing AFR readings, your AFR table is incredibly rich all over the place.... your never going to be able to keep a set of plugs in the car at that rate... I assume gasoline yes?
what wideband are you using?
Thank you for the help!

AEM 30-5130 wideband, 93 octane
I'll be picking up plugs after work and maybe I can get some testing done.
 

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
I basically want you to start over with this tune file, all i did was take your file and load in a new AFR and IGN table along with a few settings for ego control.
change the plugs they are for sure fouled out. then autotune on this file for a bit. once your done autotuning, take a clean datalog - DO NOT RUN AUTOTUNE during the datalog... this way i can see what other changes i can suggest to you.
How are you manipulating the AFR and spark tables without going "online" in tuner studio? Even "Work Offline" doesn't do anything for me. Sometimes I'd like to go over the tune without having to be plugged into the car. Maybe you have an MS3 on the bench?
 

a91what

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Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
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Hillsborough county
nope, you can simply load the tune file or open the project offline and do anything you need while not connected to the car.
 

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
I basically want you to start over with this tune file, all i did was take your file and load in a new AFR and IGN table along with a few settings for ego control.
change the plugs they are for sure fouled out. then autotune on this file for a bit. once your done autotuning, take a clean datalog - DO NOT RUN AUTOTUNE during the datalog... this way i can see what other changes i can suggest to you.
No datalog with this tune, it does seem to idle a lot better now that it's not getting so much fuel. Changed plugs, the passenger side plugs were more fouled than the driver side. No change it how it handles load though, seems lazy, then breaks up passing 3000 and won't really get to 4000, I don't stay in the throttle. Getting some backfiring in the exhaust.

Fuel pump is a new walbro 255 and I'm using an aeromotive adjustable reg, manifold referenced, stock sn95 fuel rails. Fuel pressure looks good, I haven't tied my autometer into ms3 yet to log fuel pressure though. I verified my balancer at TDC, it looks correct. Trigger wizard adds advance to my base timing like it's supposed to. I used two timing lights just to check.

Stock distributor with new pickup, MSD cap, MSD coil, new FR plug wires, stock TFI mounted passenger side. Unknown age of coil and distributor as those came with the car. But all these were in my 302/gt40/e303 and ran strong. I'm not seeing sync loss on Tunerstudio, and I believe if the TFI loses the advance signal it drops back to base timing which puts me at 14 degrees. As said early I'm running AFR suggested autolite 3924 plugs, and I have the gap down to 0.040".

I should have recorded a log yesterday, I'll have to get on it tomorrow.
 

a91what

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Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,125
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204
31
Hillsborough county
No datalog with this tune, it does seem to idle a lot better now that it's not getting so much fuel. Changed plugs, the passenger side plugs were more fouled than the driver side. No change it how it handles load though, seems lazy, then breaks up passing 3000 and won't really get to 4000, I don't stay in the throttle. Getting some backfiring in the exhaust.

Fuel pump is a new walbro 255 and I'm using an aeromotive adjustable reg, manifold referenced, stock sn95 fuel rails. Fuel pressure looks good, I haven't tied my autometer into ms3 yet to log fuel pressure though. I verified my balancer at TDC, it looks correct. Trigger wizard adds advance to my base timing like it's supposed to. I used two timing lights just to check.

Stock distributor with new pickup, MSD cap, MSD coil, new FR plug wires, stock TFI mounted passenger side. Unknown age of coil and distributor as those came with the car. But all these were in my 302/gt40/e303 and ran strong. I'm not seeing sync loss on Tunerstudio, and I believe if the TFI loses the advance signal it drops back to base timing which puts me at 14 degrees. As said early I'm running AFR suggested autolite 3924 plugs, and I have the gap down to 0.040".

I should have recorded a log yesterday, I'll have to get on it tomorrow.
I did not attempt to fix the issues you had, all the revision did was get you setup with a useable tune file. It idles better because I setup the Idle parameters, without a datalog i cannot help further.

FYI your base mechanical timing should be set at 10*. by setting it as 14* you are limiting the amount of advance you can run total due to rotor phasing.
 

Impetuous

Member
Sep 9, 2019
3
1
13
Illinois
Hi,
Sorry this is my first post although not really since I had a registration a long time ago and can't remember my user name. I'm an avid visitor at Corral forums under the same username.
I have interest on this thread since the OP mentioned breaking up at certain rpms. Mine (micro) is doing the same thing under load and with the multitude of changes I have done I don't know if anything made it stop. My 347 combo is similar but all induction components are slightly bigger and I think the main problem I'm running are the SD 60lb injectors being too big for an N/A engine. I haven't been able to drive it because the fumes are insane. I found a vacuum leak, but I still don't believe that can cause it since MAFs are more prone to this. Maybe I'm wrong. Once I change the oil and allow for a better crankcase evac, I'll probably start a new thread for @a91what to take a look at my tune.
I don't want to interrupt's the OP thread, but just want to say maybe he has a vacuum leak?
 

a91what

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Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,125
6,013
204
31
Hillsborough county
Hi,
Sorry this is my first post although not really since I had a registration a long time ago and can't remember my user name. I'm an avid visitor at Corral forums under the same username.
I have interest on this thread since the OP mentioned breaking up at certain rpms. Mine (micro) is doing the same thing under load and with the multitude of changes I have done I don't know if anything made it stop. My 347 combo is similar but all induction components are slightly bigger and I think the main problem I'm running are the SD 60lb injectors being too big for an N/A engine. I haven't been able to drive it because the fumes are insane. I found a vacuum leak, but I still don't believe that can cause it since MAFs are more prone to this. Maybe I'm wrong. Once I change the oil and allow for a better crankcase evac, I'll probably start a new thread for @a91what to take a look at my tune.
I don't want to interrupt's the OP thread, but just want to say maybe he has a vacuum leak?
For sure start your own thread, the injector size is not an issue and the SD60 are very repeatable if you bought good ones and not knock-offs. Are you running the setup MAF? or SD?
 

Impetuous

Member
Sep 9, 2019
3
1
13
Illinois
For sure start your own thread, the injector size is not an issue and the SD60 are very repeatable if you bought good ones and not knock-offs. Are you running the setup MAF? or SD?
I bought the injectors from LFP which is well known within the Ford community. The tune is SD. I bought the kit from EFISource. I don’t want to derail the OPs thread, but you are welcome to email me at [email protected] Thanks
Epi
 

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
I did not attempt to fix the issues you had, all the revision did was get you setup with a useable tune file. It idles better because I setup the Idle parameters, without a datalog i cannot help further.

FYI your base mechanical timing should be set at 10*. by setting it as 14* you are limiting the amount of advance you can run total due to rotor phasing.
So I went out autotuning, then did some datalogging. I did get somewhere, and now I feel pretty stupid. AFR was good, still breaking up after 3k. I pulled the SPOUT connector on a suspicion and there was NO change in drive-ability, acceleration or the higher RPM breakup. So my distributor is not advancing to what MS tells it. I've got a wiring, board, or setting issue in TunerStudio. At least I'm getting somewhere. I'm assuming the base timing at 14 is way too low at higher RPM and is effectively retarding the engine and causing combustion in the exhaust.

Thanks for your assistance so far, it's very appreciated. I'll be back after I sort this one out.

And to Impetuous, lol no I don't have a vacuum leak, it's a MAP system.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
10,125
6,013
204
31
Hillsborough county
So I went out autotuning, then did some datalogging. I did get somewhere, and now I feel pretty stupid. AFR was good, still breaking up after 3k. I pulled the SPOUT connector on a suspicion and there was NO change in drive-ability, acceleration or the higher RPM breakup. So my distributor is not advancing to what MS tells it. I've got a wiring, board, or setting issue in TunerStudio. At least I'm getting somewhere. I'm assuming the base timing at 14 is way too low at higher RPM and is effectively retarding the engine and causing combustion in the exhaust.

Thanks for your assistance so far, it's very appreciated. I'll be back after I sort this one out.

And to Impetuous, lol no I don't have a vacuum leak, it's a MAP system.
with the spout in do you not get any ign advance? what ign circuit are you using on the main board? did you build the TFI circuit?
 

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
with the spout in do you not get any ign advance? what ign circuit are you using on the main board? did you build the TFI circuit?
Yes, I used the resistor pull-up to 12v. I'm positive it used to advance but that was before a whole engine and transmission swap. I'll have time to sort it out in the coming days.
 

awing

Member
Jul 29, 2019
25
10
13
37
Westport, MA
I'm pretty sure my spark is sorted, car has never been this fast :D. My JS10 circuit had disconnected, I think I got it hung up on the case when I did my fan control output. I redid it much more "solid" this time. I had to cut my testing short today as it started to rain on me.

Check out how much fuel auto-tune is adding, I think this is a good direction:

javaw_2019-09-14_17-20-05.png
 
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