im having some issues with my 89 fox i put long tubes on it some years ago when i did i replaced the o2 sensors. rebuilt the engine recently with cam heads and other goodies i also put a narrow band air fuel ratio gauge in the car. here recently when the car is first started the gauge reads as it should with in a minute or so it goes lean and dosent read any thing else unless you step on the gas. also at idle the car use to idle at around 750 rpm give or take a few now it idles around 650 and lopes pretty bad i love the way it sounds but could my 02 sensors going bad or have gone bad caused this behavior?
bad 02 sensor?
- Thread starter thebullschmidt
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O2 sensors have to be close to the exhaust valves in order to get sufficent heat to work properly. They typically don't work as good in long tube headers as they do in short tube headers. This affects performance, fuel economy and emmissions. Some folks have wrapped the headers in header wrap to help fix this problem.
The Air/Fuel ratio gauges that use the O2 sensor signal will jump all over the place. The reason is that the O2 sensors "switch" between .2 volt lean and .6 volt rich with a curve that looks like the drop off a high cliff. The curve is almost straight up and down, so the voltage shoots from .2 to .6 and back down . again 2 or more times a second at cruse. You won't get much useful information except when the mixture is extremely lean or extremely rich, there is no middle ground.
Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs. Note: an Analog voltmeter or Digitial voltmeter with a bar graph is needed for this test. A regular Digital voltmeter will give inaccurate results.
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.
The Air/Fuel ratio gauges that use the O2 sensor signal will jump all over the place. The reason is that the O2 sensors "switch" between .2 volt lean and .6 volt rich with a curve that looks like the drop off a high cliff. The curve is almost straight up and down, so the voltage shoots from .2 to .6 and back down . again 2 or more times a second at cruse. You won't get much useful information except when the mixture is extremely lean or extremely rich, there is no middle ground.
Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs. Note: an Analog voltmeter or Digitial voltmeter with a bar graph is needed for this test. A regular Digital voltmeter will give inaccurate results.
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.
im not so much worried about the AFR gauge jumping around at idle. thats the norm. im worried about the fact that its gone from jumping around at idle to doing nothing after a minute or so of running from a cold start. need to know weather its more likley that is just the o2 sensors going bad or something more expensive such as the MAF or something in that area?
As Jrichker said and you indicated, your O2(s)'s are cooling off at idle. When you blip the gas, it probably creates enough heat to get a valid reading out of them again. This is one reason *some* people force an open-loop idle with LT's.
FWIW, when the engine is first started, the reading until the O2's light-off is random and useless. They need to get up to about 600*F to have valid readings. Before that, the sensor will often 'stick' at about 0.40-0.60V without any real fluctuation or amplitude.
It goes without saying that pulling codes [if you haven't already] is the place to start.
Good luck.
FWIW, when the engine is first started, the reading until the O2's light-off is random and useless. They need to get up to about 600*F to have valid readings. Before that, the sensor will often 'stick' at about 0.40-0.60V without any real fluctuation or amplitude.
It goes without saying that pulling codes [if you haven't already] is the place to start.
Good luck.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 19-May-2009 to update drawing for dumping the codes on 86-88 Mustangs with no check engine light.
Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Revised 19-May-2009 to update drawing for dumping the codes on 86-88 Mustangs with no check engine light.
Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
