Rusty67
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Come on guys, the reality is that all the auto companies out there steal designs from each other by espionage or reverse engineering. I know Mike likes to ruffle our feathers some times but he has a point.
Come on guys, the reality is that all the auto companies out there steal designs from each other by espionage or reverse engineering. I know Mike likes to ruffle our feathers some times but he has a point.
Come on guys, the reality is that all the auto companies out there steal designs from each other by espionage or reverse engineering. I know Mike likes to ruffle our feathers some times but he has a point.
CHI is what I will most likely the heads I will go with. I still have to wrestle with what CI the motor will be and what CR to run along with a cam.
It's tough to say you're the best when you have to either make certain (Cleveland) stock cast iron heads illegal or add a greater weight penalty to people who use them.
Mike is such a troll; he must have had a tough Easter because almost every post on this thread was either an insult to Ford stuff, incorrect on the facts or both.
The facts? try this..1976..Pro Stock...'c' motor had to spot the BBC 38 CID at the same weight (assuming 351 cid)...did that stop Glidden...NO. Now go back to 1972...426 HEMI..10 Lb/per ci...SBC/Cleveland....9 lbs/per ci. Every time a HEMI won a race they added 100 lbs. total vehicle weight.
I hate to say it but I'm beginning to believe what a freind said about NASCAR years ago..and I quote:
"NASCAR looks at the cars in the parking lot of the races, estimates which brand accounts for most of the cars and THAT is the brand they favor. It's all about the money."
But on the street in the 60/70's when you had to spend YOUR money, the BBC was king. Because Chevy made sure the good parts were available AND affordable for the guy who worked for a living. Quite unlike the other guys.
And, Hack...YOU are old enough to KNOW that...even if you won't admit it.
But on the street in the 60/70's when you had to spend YOUR money, the BBC was king. Because Chevy made sure the good parts were available AND affordable for the guy who worked for a living. Quite unlike the other guys.
I was too young to drive in the 60/70's, but in the 80's I started. My first street racing car was BBC Chevelle. People thought like you. It was hard to get a race even though the car only ran 12's. It was ALL stock, but everyone was scared of it. I ended up building a MustangII with a 306 and no one took it serious at first even though it idled at 1200rpm's, had an 8 point bar and slicks. It ran 10.70's and looked like a race car. The exact same people that were afraid of the Chevelle wanted to spot my lowly MII. I beat plenty of BBC's. Was it because I made more power, I seriously doubt it. It is kind of hard to fit a BBC in a small light car. I bet my car was 500-800 pounds lighter than most of them. I loved the BBC is king mentality.
There was only one "fastest" car. It was a BBC, but this guy did not have a working mans budget. The working mans cars that were fast...2 nitrous Clevelands in 67-68 Mustang coupe bodies and a nitrous first gen Camaro with a BBC. Those cars ran low 10's or high 9's.
Ha ha, I may "read" older than I am, but I was born in the late 60s (old enough now, but not old enough in the 60s or 70s, that's for sure). I always thought that Chivy was more common and cheaper, but that's part of why I like Ford. I really didn't and don't follow drag racing.The facts? try this..1976..Pro Stock...'c' motor had to spot the BBC 38 CID at the same weight (assuming 351 cid)...did that stop Glidden...NO. Now go back to 1972...426 HEMI..10 Lb/per ci...SBC/Cleveland....9 lbs/per ci. Every time a HEMI won a race they added 100 lbs. total vehicle weight.
I hate to say it but I'm beginning to believe what a freind said about NASCAR years ago..and I quote:
"NASCAR looks at the cars in the parking lot of the races, estimates which brand accounts for most of the cars and THAT is the brand they favor. It's all about the money."
But on the street in the 60/70's when you had to spend YOUR money, the BBC was king. Because Chevy made sure the good parts were available AND affordable for the guy who worked for a living. Quite unlike the other guys.
And, Hack...YOU are old enough to KNOW that...even if you won't admit it.
Ha ha, I may "read" older than I am, but I was born in the late 60s (old enough now, but not old enough in the 60s or 70s, that's for sure). I always thought that Chivy was more common and cheaper, but that's part of why I like Ford. I really didn't and don't follow drag racing.
My post above about weight penalties was referring to 351 Cleveland's NHRA super stock weight penalty versus the 350 Chivy and 340 Dodge. I remember someone posting that information and a link to the NHRA's web site a year or two ago. Also, many small circle tracks put a big penalty or outlaw the 4V Cleveland.
It does help to switch arguments - but I was comparing small blocks to each other - not to a Hemi or some such. The Hemi is a good motor, I won't take anything away from it. Since you brought it up though, remember that some people were going to use the Boss 429 for Top Fuel racing and the NHRA promptly made the motor illegal to use! I don't think they did it because the Hemi was superior and the Boss 429 could never beat it! Anyway, most race engines bear little resemblance to any factory build. IMO the factories would be foolish to actually attempt to make their standard offerings as fast as possible. That's for the aftermarket and for people like you and I. In my opinion the factory should be about making money. The great thing about the Cleveland head is the great breathing potential, it's much better than the 60s and 70s SBC heads.
Also remember that Nascar made the Ford SOHC motors illegal. Nascar always seemed to be anti Ford to me. When Ford made an engine the others couldn't beat, the rules were changed to stop them.
By the time I bought my first car it was the mid 80s and I wanted a Mustang because I always liked them and thought they were cool. Camaros and Generic Motors B-bodies were as common as dirt and didn't interest me. Out in ND farm country where I grew up Ford pickups were common and lots of people had Chivy cars.
It's cause the Shotguns are superior to Mopar Hemi's! That and everyone hates the Blue Oval for no reason.
Mike does have a good point with Cheby having lots of aftermarket support for our favorite car era. Alot of mopars and Fords use chevy rods and pistons because you could grind the cranks for the Chevy rods. Recently within the past decade or two, Ford and Mopar spec parts were cheaper to manufacture because aftermarket companies relaized that there was a big market to be had. I cant say what I just said is the complete truth, but it sure seems like that's how its been going.
But don't you find it funny now, with Chevy's latest offerings having more in common with a small block Ford? The LS series heads will bolt on a Windsor block with minor mods, their Nascar motor looks ALMOST EXACTLY like the Cleveland Ford, as does the Toyota Nascar engine. Looks like we've got the last laugh on the Cheby guys.
In case you didn't know, Ford sold Jaguar and Land Rover today. And the New Chevys have 4 head bolts per cylinder.(I guess you're not as up to date on these engines, or you'd have known that ) What part of "Chevy heads will bolt onto a Ford Windsor block" didn't YOU understand ? And what took Chevy so long to realize the benefit of using canted valve heads on a small block ? HUH? And moving the distributor to the front of the cam, where it's not affected by cam twist? How about finally learning to space the intake and exhaust runners apart (like Ford did) Or learning to change the firing order to the "Windsor" F/O? (in case you hadn't heard, the SBC/BBC F/O is the same as Ford's older F/O, just the cylinder numbering is different) And if the SBC and BBC's were so superior, why'd Chevy kill both? Your best tactics here are either "baffle em with B.S." or "change the subject" What's your problem, can't you concentrate on a single arguement, or is this due to your A.D.D.?That's assuming Ford will be around much longer...which I have my doubts. The only units they offer that make money are the Mustang (what is their follow-up) and the F truck. Hell, they were smart enough to buy Jaguar for multi BILLIONS of dollars about 15 or 16 years back without even touring the factory first. Then they found the foor leaked onto the assembly line, they poured billions into they and never made a dimes profit. Then they bought Volvo for Christs sake...same no profit result, then they were smart enough to buy Rover from BMW after BMW said pubilicly they could not turn a profit on them. They still have not gotten it.
And what part of Chevy built the canted valve head 4 years before Ford do you not get? Does the new Chevy have only 4 head bolts around each cylinder or 5?
And Hack...I remember when I first joined nthis forum you saying yo were around 59 years old and I posted a reply that sombody eles here was older than I.
And Hack...I remember when I first joined nthis forum you saying yo were around 59 years old and I posted a reply that sombody eles here was older than I.
Hell, they were smart enough to buy Jaguar for multi BILLIONS of dollars about 15 or 16 years back without even touring the factory first. Then they found the foor leaked onto the assembly line, they poured billions into they and never made a dimes profit. Then they bought Volvo for Christs sake...same no profit result, then they were smart enough to buy Rover from BMW after BMW said pubilicly they could not turn a profit on them. They still have not gotten it.