I've got a 69 351W-4V. that is spitting wet black soot out of the tail pipes, particularily when first starting. I think this is the carb running too rich. Anyway I've decided to go ahead and change the manifold and card to a new set up. The car is basically stock with a mild cam in it. What is a good set up for general street use with a bit more power without altering the hood etc? I do have headman headers and dual exhaust.
Best Intake and Carb
- Thread starter blfowlkes
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If you want to upgrade the intake, the Stealth, Edelbrock RPM and the old Ford C9OX (if you can find one) are what you want to go to. Not sure about the hood clearance on these though. The Performer is simply an aluminum copy of the intake you have now, not really an upgrade, unless you just want to loose the extra weight. Carb? Holley 570 or 670 Street Avenger or a list 80783 650 cfm Holley.
69gmachine
Member
Hey D,
Do you have any personal experience with the C9OX intake?? I've never read any articles about their performance over stock, but I like using one off Ford stuff if it works well. How about anyone else? They always turn up at Carlisle, but I've never been willing to risk the $300 price tag for an experiment.
Didn't mean to hijack your thread blfowlkes, but you may also be interested in the C9OX.
I have two buddies who are into the circle track scene, using Windsors for power. The rules let the Fords run factory aluminum intakes where the Chevy guys can't. The guys who made up these rules were unaware that Ford made these intakes
My two friends now have a "leg up" on the Chevy guys.
The looks they got were priceless when they were discovered to be running them. 
The C9OX is roughly the equivalent of using a Stealth or Performer RPM. If you like running factory stuff like I am, the C9OX is the only choice you have for a 351W, although, I think maybe Shelby had a similar intake (if they weren't using the C9) for the 69-70 Shelby GT350 MustangsI think the Shelby intake was a C9OX with Shelby markings
As for the roundy round chevy guys, I have one thing to say them:
69gmachine
Member
I have two buddies who are into the circle track scene, using Windsors for power. The rules let the Fords run factory aluminum intakes where the Chevy guys can't. The guys who made up these rules were unaware that Ford made these intakes
Great story D!!
ratio411
Founding Member
The neat thing about the 69-70 GT 350 intake, I believe that is the C9OX you refer to, is that it is more radical than it appears.
At first glance it looks like a Performer or stock iron intake, but with some study you find a very large plenum and large/short runners.
For a dual plane intake, it should rock pretty good!
The runners come in from the plenum like big funnels.
They don't get down to port size until right at the ends.
I have owned them, but never run one.
I have always wanted to try one out.
I bet they work awesome.
At first glance it looks like a Performer or stock iron intake, but with some study you find a very large plenum and large/short runners.
For a dual plane intake, it should rock pretty good!
The runners come in from the plenum like big funnels.
They don't get down to port size until right at the ends.
I have owned them, but never run one.
I have always wanted to try one out.
I bet they work awesome.
ratio411
Founding Member
Here is an example:
The blue shows how the plenum doesn't just sit under the carb and split into runners like a regular intake. The plenum extends far past and under the carb pad.
The red shows how the plenum gradually funnels down and eventually becomes what we would consider port runners.
Edit:
Just for giggles, I did the same to a 'regular' 4v intake.
The plenum is central and small.
The runners are straight off the plenum with a single size.
I don't know how true it is, but I have read that ports that funnel, rather than just shoot off the plenum, have an advantage.
A sort of pulse supercharging type thing.
I know the principle, but trying to explain physics is not my strong point.
The blue shows how the plenum doesn't just sit under the carb and split into runners like a regular intake. The plenum extends far past and under the carb pad.
The red shows how the plenum gradually funnels down and eventually becomes what we would consider port runners.
Edit:
Just for giggles, I did the same to a 'regular' 4v intake.
The plenum is central and small.
The runners are straight off the plenum with a single size.
I don't know how true it is, but I have read that ports that funnel, rather than just shoot off the plenum, have an advantage.
A sort of pulse supercharging type thing.
I know the principle, but trying to explain physics is not my strong point.
Attachments
GMachine, there is also the Ford Racing Parts stuff if you like factory-badged parts, if you are not worried about any class rules like Deane began discussing. I'm running the following intake:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=1253
Attachments
69gmachine
Member
gsxrkn, I have a Vic Jr, and the only reason I'm not using it is because I don't want to give up my shaker. I'm guessing it's costing me 20 to 25 HP using the Torker II. I like the idea of using factory parts for the stealth aspect: nobody would suspect such a stock looking motor to run so hard.
ratio411
Founding Member
I'd be willing to lay money that the Torker makes better power than any dual plane intake, including the GT350.
You are most likely in the best situation you will get.
Swapping to DP will choke it up, while going to a more aggressive SP will lose your sleeper look and possibly the shaker.
The Torker is stock carb height.
Do you have the intake painted?
I am contemplating putting a T289 on my 302 and painting it blue to keep a stealthy look. I have a dual plane right now and it looks just like a 2v engine under the factory air cleaner.
The blue paint and stock air cleaner, I am hoping, will keep things looking kosher.
69gmachine
Member
Yep, both the intake and the heads are Ford blue. Although there's no way to hide headers, it takes an eagle eye to spot the wider than stock bolt spacing.
If I tried the C9OX, I'd mill the middle down to effectively make it a single plane. You're probably right about the T2 though... it makes unbelievable power.
I found the test I mentioned earlier. It's a comparison between a Shelby 4V aluminum and the stock iron 4V manifold on a 351W with a mild performance cam and a 600 Holley:
RPM 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
Shelby 154 198 236 265 287 299 292 281
Stock 4V 161 205 246 272 290 296 290 268
RPM 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000
Shelby 154 198 236 265 287 299 292 281
Stock 4V 161 205 246 272 290 296 290 268
ratio411
Founding Member
Well, that confirms my suspicions...
After 5k rpms that big plenum and funnel ports take over...
Having owned one and appreciating the size of the plenum, I bet that intake would spin up to 7000 or better.
I knew it was definately a higher rpm intake.
The problem is that there are modern dual planes that work in higher rpms too, most notably the Stealth, and they just might do better than that old intake all around. Just don't know.
I would still lay money the Torker will out power it all over.
I also would say the Torker doesn't leave more than 15 hp on the table compared to a Vic Jr. And all that would be up high rpms.
Now, a Super Vic may put a world of hurt on a Torker... probably not on the street though.
Torker is a to much overlooked intake for the street.
I find even aggressive dual planes to be lazy compared to a T289 or T351.
Edit:
Remember to always block the heat riser port!
That will help any intake in my experience.
After 5k rpms that big plenum and funnel ports take over...
Having owned one and appreciating the size of the plenum, I bet that intake would spin up to 7000 or better.
I knew it was definately a higher rpm intake.
The problem is that there are modern dual planes that work in higher rpms too, most notably the Stealth, and they just might do better than that old intake all around. Just don't know.
I would still lay money the Torker will out power it all over.
I also would say the Torker doesn't leave more than 15 hp on the table compared to a Vic Jr. And all that would be up high rpms.
Now, a Super Vic may put a world of hurt on a Torker... probably not on the street though.
Torker is a to much overlooked intake for the street.
I find even aggressive dual planes to be lazy compared to a T289 or T351.
Edit:
Remember to always block the heat riser port!
That will help any intake in my experience.
69gmachine
Member
I know I don't have any complaints with my T2... just like to keep an eye out for what else might work. The Stealth and RPM are both too tall to work with the shaker. I also noticed that the stock 351 4V was rated at 290, which means it had the stock exhaust manifolds on. That would keep the Shelby intake from realizing it's potential. Now my curiosity is really piqued. I planned on dynoing my engine this winter anyway. I might just pick up one of the C9OX intakes at Carlisle next year.
Notice the spread taking place just as they let off at 6000
It would have been nice if they had spun it up to 7000-7500. This confirms what I've seen all along, the high rise dual planes work everybit as well at the lower rpms as the stock intakes, but give it breathing room on top.
ratio411
Founding Member
Notice the spread taking place just as they let off at 6000
The funny thing about that particular intake is that it is not a high rise intake.
Nor is it anything like what we consider higher rpm dual plane intakes nowadays.
It is stock height, it has a huge plenum, and very short runners.
None of the 'RPM' intakes today have such things. They are just tall with larger cross section port runners.
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