Buy new 2011+ mustang vs supercharged fox / newedge ?

Trickflo

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I have recently driven a 2011 5.0 Mustang GT. I loved how it drove and love the power that are provided. however I have been thinking about buying one of these new coyote Powered mustangs. I’ve been thinking that I could just buy a fox body Mustang and super charge it and it end up running just as good as one of the newer coyote Mustangs. I know I won’t get the gas mileage as one of the newer mustangs however I am looking at it from a point of view where all the newer vehicles since after the year 2000 seem to have low reliability and always break. These older 5.0 motors Have no computers and are relatively easy to work on & diagnosing problems is less a hassle. Looking at it for spending the same amount of money to buy A newer 5.0 mustang I could just build up a fox body to do the same exact thing with more reliability for cheaper.
I even thought about the new edge 1999-2004 mustang to do this with cause you can fit larger tires on them and they handle better than the fox body. But I think again to computers how much do the computers control on the new edge being newer compared to the fox body mustangs?
What do you guys think about this idea? I am looking for opinions on this matter. Would you go the fox 1987-1993 or the new edge 1999-2004 route? How much more complex are the 4.6 2 valve engines compared to the Older 5.0 In electronics?
my end goal I would like 400-450 horsepower to the ground. I know In both of these the T-5 needs to be changed out as it’s a weak link.

Ps: I looked into the newer 2005-2009 model mustangs but they use a :poo:ty oil controlled timing system where the phasers can fail and ruin the whole engine By starving the cans of oil and ruining the head & cams & it making the timing chain jump.
(my 2006 Ford F-250 with triton 5.4 v8 just had this problem A month ago they want $7000 for a new engine & it’s the same :poo:ty engineered design as the 4.6 in the 2005-2009 mustangs so the s197 is out of the question the engines are junk though they have One of the nicest interior and body designs & on these I’m pretty sure I could use the stock manual tranny as it’s not aT-5 anymore and it’s beefier)
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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You are incorrect in assuming that an older 5.0 fox isn’t a computer controlled car, and is less likely to break. It’s almost the complete opposite. Firstly, anything after 87 has an ecu, as it is fuel injected. The age of the car guarantees that you’ll be fixing stuff...all the time. Lastly, The Coyote engine N/A power level stock starts where you’d “hope“ to even be able to get to on an early model 5.0.
 
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Mustang5L5

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Line said, a 5.0 is ECU-controlled. It's primitive, but there's an ECU to manage. The downside is they are old, and starting to fail. The wiring is 30 years old, starting to dry out, crack etc. Building a 400HP 5.0 and then calling it reliable is something that's going to take some skill as a builder and require some hands-on knowledge on your behalf.

The only way I would call a 450HP Fox "just as good" as a coyote is in terms of raw HP. Everything else, the newer Mustang is going to take the edge. Better brakes, better suspension, IRS car if you get a 2015+, better refinement, etc. All the fox will be is an older car with a lot of HP. You're going to spend a lot of money to build one up to standards comparable to a new vehicle. By that I mean functioning AC, a decent stereo, a comfortable interior in decent shape. You can certainly forgo all that and just put a big motor in a crappy car and just be happy going fast.

A new edge would probably be a better starting point. Stiffer car, longer wheel base, available ABS and traction control, but just more expensive to modify. However, a turbo kit on the stock engine will probably get you to the power levels you want to be. Reliability....somewhat.

Honesrtly, buy a 2015+ and never look back. Get a laptop with ForScan on it and you'll be able to hook up to the ECU and diagnose many things the dealers can. I'm not sure why you consider any vehicle since 2000 as unreliable.
 
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74stang2togo

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I have recently driven a 2011 5.0 Mustang GT. I loved how it drove and love the power that are provided. however I have been thinking about buying one of these new coyote Powered mustangs. I’ve been thinking that I could just buy a fox body Mustang and super charge it and it end up running just as good as one of the newer coyote Mustangs. I know I won’t get the gas mileage as one of the newer mustangs however I am looking at it from a point of view where all the newer vehicles since after the year 2000 seem to have low reliability and always break. These older 5.0 motors Have no computers and are relatively easy to work on & diagnosing problems is less a hassle. Looking at it for spending the same amount of money to buy A newer 5.0 mustang I could just build up a fox body to do the same exact thing with more reliability for cheaper.
I even thought about the new edge 1999-2004 mustang to do this with cause you can fit larger tires on them and they handle better than the fox body. But I think again to computers how much do the computers control on the new edge being newer compared to the fox body mustangs?
What do you guys think about this idea? I am looking for opinions on this matter. Would you go the fox 1987-1993 or the new edge 1999-2004 route? How much more complex are the 4.6 2 valve engines compared to the Older 5.0 In electronics?
my end goal I would like 400-450 horsepower to the ground. I know In both of these the T-5 needs to be changed out as it’s a weak link.

Ps: I looked into the newer 2005-2009 model mustangs but they use a :poo:ty oil controlled timing system where the phasers can fail and ruin the whole engine By starving the cans of oil and ruining the head & cams & it making the timing chain jump.
(my 2006 Ford F-250 with triton 5.4 v8 just had this problem A month ago they want $7000 for a new engine & it’s the same :poo:ty engineered design as the 4.6 in the 2005-2009 mustangs so the s197 is out of the question the engines are junk though they have One of the nicest interior and body designs & on these I’m pretty sure I could use the stock manual tranny as it’s not aT-5 anymore and it’s beefier)
There's a lot to unpack here...

The old EEC-IV controlled SEFI 5.0 Mustangs (1986-1995) aren't actually any easier to diagnose than a newer one. Sure, a lot less is computer controlled, but the engine isn't just computer controlled, you've got mechanical parts with computer controls slapped onto/into them (like the distributor). The only upside is not having to deal with CAN-BUS, body control modules or ABS brakes, but to be honest, Ford's actually REALLY good at building those systems. They can't build HVAC actuators worth a damn, but that's it.

"I am looking at it from a point of view where all the newer vehicles since after the year 2000 seem to have low reliability and always break." Not really. They're more complicated, but they're actually far more reliable. Seeing cars from the 80s and 90s that aren't Japanese with 200,000+ miles is pretty rare. Seeing Ford trucks and SUVs with 200,000+ from the 90s is a little more common, and seeing them from the 2000s is common as hell.

As far as computer controls in the New Edge cars, they're pretty good. You've got a PCM, a BCM, a CCRM, ABS, and an airbag module, so it's not as complicated as an S197 or S550, but it's still very modern. The 4.6 is a beast from a reliability standpoint, sharing most of the engine with the police cars and taxis that regularly see 300,000 miles or more before they're scrapped.

The 3v 4.6 in the 2005-2009 Mustang can suffer from cam phaser issues, but it's actually not super common. The 3v 4.6 in the F150 (essentially the same engine), is also far less prone to it than the 5.4. I don't know why it's so damned common on the 5.4 and relatively rare on the 4.6, but that's the truth of it. I've owned two of the 4.6L 3V engines, both were beasts, neither had cam phaser issues. One of those was a weekend race car that saw the rev-limiter regularly in addition to being daily driven. If you like the early S197, buy one. Even if the 3v does crap out, a coyote-swap is a near bolt-in, and sometimes you can pick these much nicer cars up for less than a clean fox.

As far as the Coyote itself, the first gen Coyotes (2011-2014) had some teething problems that included burning up #8 pistons when tuned, and are actually somewhat prone to VVT issues of their own, as well as oil pressure issues. This is again nowhere near as common as the absolute plague of oiling issues suffered by the 3v 5.4, but it's worth noting.
 
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DudeStang

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As someone who owns one of each, I feel obligated to chime in. :D

My 2014 GT has some suspension upgrades (shocks/struts/springs, caster camber plates, panhard rod, lower control arms, relocation brackets) but the engine is pretty much stock aside from an AirRaid intake tube (got it for super cheap, it looks kind of cool) and an air filter. I have had it for six years and I still love it as much as the day I bought it. It's a vastly superior car than the Fox Body by every objective metric. I only have two regrets with my Coyote - I wish I would have included the sport Recaro seats and the big brake kit. Finding the seats for a reasonable price after the fact is an exercise in futility. With a 2011-2014 though, honestly all you need is a better set of axle backs (mufflers) and the car is plenty fun and reliable out of the box.

The MT-82 transmission is a common complaint from Coyote owners. I think a lot of that stems from more hardcore driving/racing. I added a shifter bracket and a weighted shift knob and it's enough of an improvement for my driving. That being said, I enjoy the process of shifting the T5 in the Fox Body more. It just feels like you're more connected to the shifter, if that makes sense. Fox body mustangs are awesome but I think you can get more performance value and reliability out of a newer Mustang, particularly if you're going to drive it daily.

I'm with Mustang5L5 on this though. Get a 2015+ Mustang GT. I drove a 2015 GT with the track/performance pack brakes about a year after I got my 2014. I still prefer the looks on the 11-14 but the 2015+ is better across the board. More comfortable, better ergonomics, independent rear suspension, the list goes on. I think a mildly used S550 GT is probably the best bang for your buck sports/pony/muscle car (whatever you want to call it) right now.
 

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I have a 2017 and a 1990. Over the course of my life, I've had the opportunity to drive or own some very fast V8 cars. My 2017 is by far the quickest. It's a legit 12 second car from the factory, although with the new 10 speed auto in drag mode, it might be an 11 second car. It's very refined, smooth as silk and handles like it's on rails, and gets decent fuel economy. You will have to do a lot of work to reach that with a fox body and you'll never match the fuel economy if you do. The 90 is just fun. They made your neck snap from 0-45 and sounded great, but rattled like crazy and never felt stable at high speeds and had the turning radius of a school bus.

I love them both for different reasons, but I still drive the 17 daily.
 
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91TwighlightGT

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Reasons to buy and drive a Fox Body Mustang...

1. They aren't so common anymore, and you will be driving a "different" car than most other people.
2. You like the body style.
3. It is a fun car, even with relatively low HP compared to a modern car. Fox bodies are rough and primitive, and "feel" fast because they lurch, creak, and spin tires with ease.

New edge are a step up from a Fox body in refinement, but generally the same rules from above apply. They are slightly more common and most people will probably assume you drive a V6 mustang, but they are getting less common by the day.


There is no doubt that a car designed in the 70's should not hold a candle to a car designed and refined since the early 2000's. New cars can have problems, but they are generally okay if well maintained. As they age you will have maintenance items that come up, but you aren't going to run into the random Fox body issues (TFI modules, 30 year old wiring, etc.) with any kind of regularity. The other issue with Fox Mustangs, depending on where you live, is rust. To me it was an eye opener when Mustang5L5 is replacing his frame rails on a pretty well maintained and taken care of car. These things are just getting to the age where that stuff is going to be an issue and will have to be addressed.
 
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Trickflo

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I just see myself doing suspension , disc brake conversion. and every thing down the road. I know fox’s have computers but they barley control anything compared to new mustang and any other new car.
diagnosing my truck was a nightmare and one problem would trigger a chain reaction inn codes and failed sensor codes for sensors that were not even bad it was just cause of one thing making everything else not read right. This kind of thing makes it impossible about to work on your own car or do mods cause t he computer it attached to everything new cars even tell you the heads tempatures and everything that means there is a sensor for that I bet the new cars have like 75 sensors on them or more. I want to stay away from technology which has ruined cars in my opinion they just make them that way for more parts to break so you have to fix it for a high cost cause a mechanic can’t even fix cars now days they are called technicians cause they have to get degrees in computers now to even work on them. More things on your vehicle the more things that break and more expensive it is cause you can’t do the work yourself & the parts are expensive
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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*Sigh* :nonono:

Talk about missing the bus.

If you want to buy/work on a car because it’s more simple electronically then that’s what you do. Go out and buy an early model car that you can “work on“ that relies on nothing to tell you why it’s running like sht. Understand that buying a “pre-ecu” or early model limited control ecu car doesn’t automatically make it simple to work on. It means that you’ll simply be working on it more.

For you to decide that technology has created a car that can no longer be worked on by the average shade tree mechanic due to the propensity of sensors that do not accurately reflect the symptom, and therefore can no longer be trusted with what they are telling the techs, tells me that you need to stay off of a plane.

Because it’s full of them lying sensors...

Now I get it...I’m that guy. I manually shift a transmission that used to be electronically controlled..And its one thing to want to keep things simple to maintain old school control of certain functions on a car..But just because I do, does not automatically get me a season pass to ride the “ All them sensors and electro-gadgets are just more sht to go wrong” short bus.

If you want to buy a 79 Mustang, and revive yourself a period correct dumbed down, simple to work on street car,...more power to ya..
* On second thought .....maybe I should say...less power to ya.
 

Noobz347

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This kind of thing makes it impossible about to work on your own car or do mods cause t he computer it attached to everything new cars even tell you the heads tempatures and everything that means there is a sensor for that I bet the new cars have like 75 sensors on them or more. I want to stay away from technology which has ruined cars in my opinion they just make them that way for more parts to break so you have to fix it for a high cost cause a mechanic can’t even fix cars now days they are called technicians cause they have to get degrees in computers now to even work on them. More things on your vehicle the more things that break and more expensive it is cause you can’t do the work yourself & the parts are expensive

Please carry on. I was just checking to see if this thread was from 1986.
 
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Mustang5L5

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Serious question. What’s your level of mechanical skill. Can you build a 450hp Windsor yourself, or is this something you would have done for you?
 

TOOLOW91

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11-14 put a power adder on it , suspension , wheels and enjoy it with creature comforts
 
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Noobz347

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A loooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago, in the galaxy we are all sitting in, a term was coined; The term I refer to is "Hacker".

For most people, this term brings up a flash of images and memories that are well.... Wrong. :D


Within this forum lies the largest single collection of genuine "Hackers" that I am aware of in the purest definition.


In other words: Build what you want and enjoy the hell out of it. :nice: I still have a ridiculously high compression, solid lifter, N/A street Windsor that I want to build too. :shrug:
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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A loooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago, in the galaxy we are all sitting in, a term was coined; The term I refer to is "Hacker".

For most people, this term brings up a flash of images and memories that are well.... Wrong. :D


Within this forum lies the largest single collection of genuine "Hackers" that I am aware of in the purest definition.


In other words: Build what you want and enjoy the hell out of it. :nice: I still have a ridiculously high compression, solid lifter, N/A street Windsor that I want to build too. :shrug:
I refer you back to the thread title.
OP is asking which would be better, which calls for an opinion.
He did not say he was doing anything particular except not wanting something with ecus or sensors that cant be worked on.
 
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