Calling Turbo Guys!

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
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Apr 26, 2010
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So, all these builds have caused me to be bitten by the turbo bug. I am really considering it and have been reading up a little, but you know how internet info can get. Here is my hypothetical plan:

Currently have a 10.8:1 stock block 331 with afr heads and custom cam.

Go from a .039 head gasket to a .060 head gasket and soften the chambers, which should put me at 10:1, maybe a little under. Re-gap the rings and add a stock cam. This should keep the power band low and keep revs to under 6k with the added displacement. This will also allow me to go from a 4.10 gear to a 3.27.

Use my existing AFM big tube shorties t0 build off of.
Tial BOV runs about $235.
Tial wastegate runs about $365.
MasterPower T70 (chinese) runs about $675.
Chinese intercooler, or no cooler and meth?
Larger injectors, will 42lbers be enough?
Stock lines and rails, existing 255 pump.
Another couple hundred $$$ in piping, connectors and v bands.
$1k for tuning software.
All in for less than $3k and can bbn probably recoupe $600-$700 out of my old parts. Goal would be 500rwhp under 6k rpms.
I rarely get to drive my car, so jackstands are no big deal. This is as much about challenging myself to a build as anything.

So, what am I missing? Recommendations on parts, directions, can I get a cheaper, reliable BOV and WG then the tial pieces?

Joe
 
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90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
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Honestly, I think it would be cheaper and easier to buy the on3 kit ( like I did ).

Making custom piping is nice but it takes time....and on3 sells turbo blankets and down pipe sleeves made for their piping. The turbo can be upgraded to a ball bearing turbo. They also use BOV and WG almost identical to TIAL. ( might be knock off...not sure ) For the amount of stuff in the kit it seems worth it.

I use 42lb injectors in my car. I'd suggest going with 60lbs. I haven't had problems yet....but I dont like knowing I may in the future.

MSPNP2 powers my car.....if I would've done a little more research I would've sprung for MS3 or Stinger Pimp. The MS2 is capable...but the MS3 is even more capable.

On my 331 6 - 7 lbs should put me at about 500hp ( car hasn't been dynoed yet ).

I'm turbo now but contemplate going NA often. Just a bunch of time and money invested.

Plus, I've got to at least tag the thing before I RIP the turbo off. Lol
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Georgia
I have looked at on3 and a few others. It seems that most complaints come from the BOV and wastegate, or poor fitment, although that seems to be getting better. Also, there are a lot of upgrades that drive the cost up. I feel as though I can get better quality parts for the same price. Plus I want to build it. Granted, I have not ruled out buying a kit. I would like to see your duty cycle on your injectors if you have that info, and I agree that the turbo blanket is a good idea.

Joe
 

Black1987

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Jan 9, 2011
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I have looked at on3 and a few others. It seems that most complaints come from the BOV and wastegate, or poor fitment, although that seems to be getting better. Also, there are a lot of upgrades that drive the cost up. I feel as though I can get better quality parts for the same price. Plus I want to build it. Granted, I have not ruled out buying a kit. I would like to see your duty cycle on your injectors if you have that info, and I agree that the turbo blanket is a good idea.

Joe
Have you looked at CXRacing stuff to piece together? They are offbrand kits, but they also carry the name brand porducts as well.

I mean Hot Rod magizine always gives them a nod, but I haven’t had any personal experience.

Looking forward to this build.
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,666
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Georgia
Have you looked at CXRacing stuff to piece together? They are offbrand kits, but they also carry the name brand porducts as well.

I mean Hot Rod magizine always gives them a nod, but I haven’t had any personal experience.

Looking forward to this build.
I have, I actually like their's a little better, except for the drivers side header. Looks like a nightmare on plug wires. And I do think the PIMP XS is what I would go with.

WHAT!!
subbed

:pop:
Don't get too excited. I am in the talking phase only right now.

Joe
 

FastDriver

My dad had a bra
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Your head's in the right place, in terms of components. If you want turbo because you want turbo, that's enough reason. That said, if you want 500 rwhp with your current high SCR combo, then nitrous makes more sense. This, of course, is coming from a very pro-turbo guy. I have heard that thickening the HG is not the best way to drop SCR from a detonation perspective, but haven't researched much more than that. Regapping the rings? Why not consider swapping those pistons since you're in there? Lower compression in exchange for more boost means more power. The n/a cam is very likely higher overlap... opposite of what you want with a turbo (reversion).

42s will get you to 500, but will push it near max duty cycle. Your call... If I already had them, I'd go for it. Guys have made 500 rwhp with blower combos. Turbos are more fuel efficient (lower BSFC).

You'll need more than the 255. Consider a boost-a-pump or upgrading to a 340LPH. Keep in mind that adding boost adds and equal amount of fuel pressure, which makes it that much harder on the pump.

I'd go PimpXS if I were starting from scratch again. Good choice! Plus, Steve will become your best friend. Aim for 11.5:1 AFR. You have some significant compression, and could use the extra protection from detonation.

The turbo and system components you are looking at are great. Also, consider finding a great used kit (HP Performance, B&G, Hellion, etc...). You'll end up getting everything at a significant discount and will save you a lot of hassle. Your call about intercooler vs. meth. I like the simplicity of an intercooler, and don't want any more systems or fuel additives than I need.
 

mikestang63

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Aug 27, 2012
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get in touch with Paul (NeoMustangs) on FB or Youtube. He has been doing some pretty amazing things with On3 kits and stock blocks. I think he is in the 9's with a stock 351 block.
 
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RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
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Apr 26, 2010
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Your head's in the right place, in terms of components. If you want turbo because you want turbo, that's enough reason. That said, if you want 500 rwhp with your current high SCR combo, then nitrous makes more sense. This, of course, is coming from a very pro-turbo guy. I have heard that thickening the HG is not the best way to drop SCR from a detonation perspective, but haven't researched much more than that. Regapping the rings? Why not consider swapping those pistons since you're in there? Lower compression in exchange for more boost means more power. The n/a cam is very likely higher overlap... opposite of what you want with a turbo (reversion).

42s will get you to 500, but will push it near max duty cycle. Your call... If I already had them, I'd go for it. Guys have made 500 rwhp with blower combos. Turbos are more fuel efficient (lower BSFC).

You'll need more than the 255. Consider a boost-a-pump or upgrading to a 340LPH. Keep in mind that adding boost adds and equal amount of fuel pressure, which makes it that much harder on the pump.

I'd go PimpXS if I were starting from scratch again. Good choice! Plus, Steve will become your best friend. Aim for 11.5:1 AFR. You have some significant compression, and could use the extra protection from detonation.

The turbo and system components you are looking at are great. Also, consider finding a great used kit (HP Performance, B&G, Hellion, etc...). You'll end up getting everything at a significant discount and will save you a lot of hassle. Your call about intercooler vs. meth. I like the simplicity of an intercooler, and don't want any more systems or fuel additives than I need.
A lot of good points.

I already have a NX kit on the car, I want the power all the time and want to experience the turbo pull everyone raves about. I also want room to grow if I ever upgrade to a Dart block, simply more boost and possibly a bigger turbo (fuel too of course).
I have been researching compression and quench. Some say quench is not as important with boost, others say it is. Max safe quench seems to be around .060". My pistons are .005 out of the hole for a quench height of .055 if I went with the thicker gasket. I could find another 2cc's or so of chamber volume through the softening process. The old idea of 8.something compression with boost seems to be gone. Lots of guys running 10 to 1 these days. I have decent pistons in there now, Probe SRS flat tops. Pistons are expensive, and with the possibility of a rebalance needed, I would rather not deal with changing them.
Put it in the original post, but custom cam will go in favor of a stock cam, most likely. I am making an estimated 460-470 rwhp on a 100 shot, but spin it to 6500. This is with 4.10 gears, lumpy cam and 6k launches for best ET. I would love a milder, lower spin stock block that would probably end up being faster.

Love the ideas and comments though.

Joe
 

FastDriver

My dad had a bra
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Yep, I remember reading up on quench v. compression. Disagree on boost v. compression. There's no way a lower compression motor has the same detonation resistance as a high compression one, all other things equal. That said, we're talking about a stock block and all you have to do is get it to 500, so who cares? You're probably going to be there by ~6 psi with a 10:1 331 AFR combo, and I doubt you'll run into any trouble by then. I wasn't thinking specifically enough.

Gotcha on the stock cam. I made 420 on it with a GT40X/GT40 intake 302 @ 10-12psi. So, it'll be enough. If you like a little lope, the F-cam was always popular on the turbo forums.
 
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a91what

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A note on quench.

My speed shop suggested running tight head gasket and zero deck to get the quench right. The way he explained it was that he would rather send a(n) engine out with less than optimal cr (higher cr in my case) than a less than optimal quench area. (I plan to run as much as 12psi to reach my goals)

I ended up with slightly above 10:1 but my quench is optimal, from his experience this will help stave off detonation .
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Georgia
A note on quench.

My speed shop suggested running tight head gasket and zero deck to get the quench right. The way he explained it was that he would rather send a(n) engine out with less than optimal cr (higher cr in my case) than a less than optimal quench area. (I plan to run as much as 12psi to reach my goals)

I ended up with slightly above 10:1 but my quench is optimal, from his experience this will help stave off detonation .
What is your head gaskwt thickness?

Joe