Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by 351CJ, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. "I could care less what type of post you like to see. The Mustang outsold the F bodies, will far outsell the Holden Heap and will probably be around when the replacement F-bodies again fade from the theater due to low sales volumes yet again."

    And the GTO and Camaro will perform better than the Mustang. And the GTO isn't even a performance vehicle.

    Keep on bragging about your huge sales. Sales and styling must be what you care about. If your top criteria was performance, you would obviously prefer a GTO, even though it is the 2 door version of an Australian family car.

    Feel the might of GM. They can release a family car from an car company out in the middle of nowhere to the American people, and beat the Mustang in performance. That is because they are one of the premiere engine companies in the world (along with companies such as Honda, Mazda, BMW, and Daimler-Benz) whereas Ford is a B quality engine company (unless you include their Mazda division.)

    See GM and now Chrysler went back to what they know--huge displacement, highly compact and efficient, pushrod engines. Mazda has their rotaries. Honda has their high revving capabilities. BMW has their inlines... The point is, all these companies come out with original engine designs... Ford tries to COPY Japanse ideology whereas GM and now Chrysler (who recently went back to the drawing board) figured out how to make more technologically efficient, American-style pushrod engines. Ford OTOH will always be a B-quality engine company until they stop copying other designs and innovations and come up with their own. (Even their "new" three-valve set up is a rip-off of Mercedes...) They need something original about their engines so that they will develop a passion. Until then, your Muscle cars will have the least unique and worst performing engines out of the Americans...

    Wait a second... I take that back.. I just noticed that Ford is the only company to make super-charged, high displacement engines... I am willing to bet that the Mustang SVT will be a Hell of a vehicle. But you Mustang GT guys will still be getting beat by the 2 door GM family car known is Australia as the Holden Monaro.

    I don't care.. I realized after posting here that the Mustang is a really immature car that will be filling up high school parking lots in no time... Hell, the car will be selling for $16-17K new (V6 version) in a few years. It will have a stigma associated with it that I don't want. You guys don't mind the stigma. Enjoy your Mustang.

  2. And that's why people like you and don't classify you into the "I'm a GTO owner and an a-hole" category. :nice:
  3. pinski, you stated this I believe.

    A better contender against the GTO would be the Mustang Cobra. They're both "exclusive" (one due to production numbers, one due to sales figures, you can figure that out) and both have similar horsepower ratings, instead of one having 33% more than the other They're also both priced over $30k.

    Read the July/ 04 Road and Track and see which car won the comparo test.
    Better bring a crying towel.

    What does it all mean when magazines test cars, absolutely nothing.

  4. I know this, and you make a valid point. He was just being such an arse and I wanted to prove him wrong and shut him up :rolleyes:

  5. LMAO, are you 10 years old? You have never even driven before have you? The article CLEARLY states the winner, so why in the HELL would thousands of mustang lovers in a MUSTANG FORUM admit the the mustang got beat by the GTO? Seriously, isn't it nap time for you? Go away, take a nap, and finish coloring in your scoobie doo coloring book! :owned:

  6. :nice:
    I'm a car guy through and through no matter what I drive. Of course, if it burns a lot of rubber then I like it more!!! :D
  7. Cool. This thread has gotten a little out of hand for sure!
  8. You really need to quit posting because you have diarrhea of the mouth. You don't know anything about cars, but keep coming back. Let me ask you this, what is so special about GM's LS1 or LS2 engine? The old addage of "there is no replacement for displacement" holds true. The design of the SB chevy goes back to the 1950's. From a tecnnology standpoint, the new 4.6L 3V has the LS1/LS2 beat. High horsepower engines don't always add of to high technology.

  9. Actually I said 2007 Cobra vs. 2007 GTO. Neither cars of which exist yet. Like you said, magazines don't mean anything, and I could honestly care less which one they pick...if a magazine impacts someone's decision, there's something wrong.

    I don't have that particular issue of R&T with me, could you refresh my memory as to which car won every performance category, since they're both in the same price range?
  10. It's post like this that's giving GTO owner a bad rep on this forum. You need to learn from Doc GTO. He pokes fun at the Mustang but also shows respect as well. For that reason, he gets respect from the forum members. You, OTOH, act like an obnoxious troll and get treated like one. You get all torqued up because forum members prefer the Mustang over the GTO and you just can't comprehend why that can be. So, like a petulant little child, you rant and rave and throw temper tantrums because you aren't getting your way. Seriously, it's time to move on before you have a cerebral hemorrhage over this.
  11. He is a GTO fanboy, but without the actual GTO. He said before he doesn't own a GTO nor a Mustang in a previous post. The guys lack of automotive knowledge is appauling, but he comes back. He reads way too many car mags and they are corrupting his mind. Car mags do not equal the automotive bible.
  12. AGREED! I think this thread should be stopped and deleted (yet I keep posting; I am drawn to it and can't stop) :shrug:
  13. pinski, if you want to read it, its on their web site. Cobra killed it performance wise as expected, in fact I don't remember if any 1/4 mile numbers being posted for the GTO. They had the Cobra around 13.4 I think, I believe they are much quicker than that.
    They picked the GTO because of better interior and I think they said the Cobra was a little rough around the edges or something like that.
    Its the same situation you have here with the C & D issue picking the mustang, the GTO was faster and it should have been with 100 extra HP, but the mustang was picked as the winner.
    As far as your comparision of the 07s, I think this will be have to be a turning point for the GTO. If sales don't increase dramatically without rebates, I would have to think the program will get squashed. Thats just my opinion though.
    As far as myself I will probably get a GTO, in another 3 to 6 months you will probably see two or three stangs just walking down to get the mail. Nothing wrong with that I just like being different thats all. The 05 stang is without doubt the most sports car you can buy for $25,000. Good luck
  14. I agree - I think they'll try something new and reintroduce the car in 2006 as a 2007 model...the rumor mill is also churning that they may bring production stateside as well.

    I personally like the GTO - not my cup of tea in the styling department, but with the power and fantastic interior, it should be selling a lot stronger in the sport-luxo-coupe segment. I drove one at the GM Auto Show In Motion, and it was a lot of fun, and sounded great as well. With what the 2004 models are selling for now, they're awesome deals. I think someone on got one for under $25k with tt&l included.

    If they would just fix the styling and keep just about everything else the same...and maybe slide the LS7 in there ;) I would consider one in 2007.
  15. Wow, vocal topic

    Lot of people, lot of typing, probably only 3 opinions:
    1) Mustang's Rule (49%)
    2) GTO's Rule (49%)
    3) Open minded honest people (2%)

    I think its kinda funny. If I went back 4 years, swapped the development plans between the two companies, some of these joker's would be making the exact opposite arguments to protect "their" treasured brands.

    C/D writes an article compairing the two cars. Conclusion: slightest of edge to mustang. And yes, mustang did win based on a large edge in some hypothetical "got to have it" catagory. Is this legal? Probably. Hey, C/D wrote the eval, they make the rules. Dont like it? Run your own shoot off.
    That said, you gotta admit that the mustang won on a beauty pagent score, rather than muscle and performance. So what. They said its a prettier car (in thier opinion), and the GTO is a more powerful car (in most facts). It all depends on what your measuring / want.

    The only thing funnier than reading some of the "current" generation posts, are the ones that are racing the hypothetical 2007 Stangs and GTOs. WHO KNOWS for sure??? Put those comments right up there with the Batman Vs Spiderman wrestling match debates.

    And then we have the good old sales arguements. Some validity here ... but Mustang sell mostly V6's, not exactly performance cars. Anyone who uses the logic of sales volumes to bolster their own vehicle must be bowing down to a fair number of Accords and Camry's at every traffic light (yuck).

    Glad to see that there are some rational people in the world. Guess what. They are both good cars. GTO has the edge in power/accell and interior, Mustang in cost and styling. Mustang has the reports edge in "handling" as measured in the articale, but then takes a knock for the rear end kicking out (which means the GTO may handle better in the real world where broken road and potholes are a fact of life). It should, it has the IRS, and the sticker to go with it.

    Anyway, I'm done. Both good cars. Debate is healthy. Mindless (my dad can beat up your dad) recital of the same old opinions gets old.
  16. I believe sales volume to have validity because Chrysler-Plymouth/Daimler-Chrysler, General Motors all had the same opportunity to offer models in their respective pony car lines that provided enough sales volume to subsidize the higher dollar, High Performance models and the losses incurred with the sales of same. Somehow; the engineers on those teams just didn't design a car that sold well enough in its base, Low-Po form to justify keeping them around. That was bad for us gear heads but it protected the bottom lines of the motor companies.

    I like my high performance mustangs as I've previously owned a '89 LX 5.0, a 2001 BULLITT (# 00680) and a 2003 Cobra. I currently drive an '03 Lightning since I had to have something to tow my boat but was still fun to drive. I'm hoping that the new Mustang sells well for many years and that U.S. high performance iron will still be available in eight more years when I retire.
  17. "Let me ask you this, what is so special about GM's LS1 or LS2 engine? The old addage of "there is no replacement for displacement" holds true. The design of the SB chevy goes back to the 1950's. From a tecnnology standpoint, the new 4.6L 3V has the LS1/LS2 beat. High horsepower engines don't always add of to high technology."

    The LS2 is lighter, gets better gas mileage, costs less to make and makes 100 more HP. That is what makes it special.

    "It's post like this that's giving GTO owner a bad rep on this forum. You need to learn from Doc GTO. He pokes fun at the Mustang but also shows respect as well."

    I did show respect for the Mustang but then I got tired of the **** talking at this place. The bottom line is that I realize the Mustang is not for me. Maybe if I was a 17 year old highschool kid looking for cheap wheels, but not now.

  18. Then why are you here? If you stir up sh1t like you have, expect this as a result! Not that complicated.

    If I went over to and started talking about how fantastic the Mustang is, and how it put the F-bodies out of their misery, do you think I would be well-received? Hell no. If you want to stay here and learn, fine. If not, GO AWAY!

    Btw, I'm always up for a quick engine comparo:

    4.6L 2v N/A
    HP - 260
    HP/Liter - 56.5

    4.6L 3v N/A
    HP - 300
    HP/Liter - 65.2

    4.6L 4v N/A
    HP - 320
    HP/Liter - 69.6

    4.6L 4v FI
    HP - 390
    HP/Liter - 84.8

    vs. GM

    5.7L LS1
    HP - 350
    HP/Liter - 61.4
    *oopsie, the 4.6L 3v is better!

    5.7L LS6
    HP - 405
    HP/Liter - 71.1
    *oh noes, a teeny 4.6L with a blower stomps it!

    6.0L LS2
    HP - 400
    HP/Liter - 66.7
    *still not as good as the 4.6L 4v NA motor Ford stopped using after the 2001 Cobra

    7.0L LS7
    HP - 500
    HP/Liter - 71.4
    *barely better than the LS6, still way behind the current Cobra, and will be even FURTHER behind the next-gen Cobra.

    The point: Ford does more with less, if the mighty LS1 was only 4.6 liters, it would only make 282.4hp, not even as good as the 2005 Mustang GT.
  19. I have never seen any published numbers of the LS2 vs 4.6L 3V. Also, how do you know how much it costs to make either either, do you have acess to the manufacturing costs associated with either engine? As for making more power, the 4.6 doesn't have the displacement. The LS2 gets good gas mileage because on gearing. The fact of the matter is that the 4.6L 3V is more advanced technologically. The LS2 lacks multivalve heads and VVT.
  20. The LS1 and LS2s do come with forged internals and 6 bolt mains! They may not be as advanced as the new 4.6 but they are built like brick $hit houses. That's why you can spin the hell out of them with modded heads and a fat cam!