- Mar 19, 2009
- 236
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MAJOR UPDATE 12/27/11: The car is fixed. I pulled both cylinder heads off, machined them, and reinstalled. I changed the spark plugs from copper core Autolites to platinum core Motorcraft. I am still having an electrical issue with the ECT and a P0118 code but I think this is a wiring problem.
Lessons learned:
1.) Don't bother with troubleshooting EFI stuff without a scan tool.
2.) If one bank of the engine has a problem, do the same treatment on the other bank of the engine, ex: replace sensors, machine heads, etc. It sucks buying gaskets twice.
3.) Using YouTube can get you a long way in explaining your problem, especially if you aren't a "car guy."
4.) Call several machine shops/dealers and start a price bidding war for services. A Ford dealer wanted $300 to reprogram my PCM. I laughed in his face and left. I got my PCM reprogrammed for $95 by hustling the dealers and bidding them down against each other. Little business is better than no business.
5.) SYNTHETIC OIL IS WORTH EVERY PENNY. I ran Mobil 1 5w20 or 5w30 religiously since day one in the car and when I pulled the heads apart the cam lobes were so clean you could eat off of them.. Absolutely no visible wear at all, just mirror smooth surfaces..... at 154,000 miles and lots of city stop and go miles.
6.) When the CEL flashes at you, you have a serious, serious problem. $100 for a tow to a reputable shop will save your ass. Don't push your engine when the PCM is sounding a three bell alarm. Immediately stop your vehicle and shut it off. In the case of losing oil pressure, you have a matter of seconds before your engine is toast.
7.) When pulling heads off the engine, drain the heads and block by removing the drain plugs on each. Even though I thought my engine was fully drained of coolant, it was not. When the heads came off the coolant got into the oil pan and I used about 4 gallons of oil flushing the thing out to remove all the water. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
8.) Get a proper Ford DVD service manual.
9.) WMBurns, 1987Stangman, trinity_gt, Rick91GT, and HotCobra03, are the man!
CASH REWARD - CEL flashing, severe misfire, P0302 P0316, compression test results
I will leave this unedited for posterity... my frustration was unfairly directed toward those that were trying to give me advice at the expense of their own time. Having StangNet as a resource makes a project like this actually possible! Thanks guys and my apologies.
Edit: 10/17/11 - THE CAR IS STILL RUNNING LIKE CHIT. THRU THE NEXT 8 PAGES YOU WILL READ OF HOW INTERNET ADVICE DOESNT END UP DOING A DAMNED THING. Through pulling a cylinder head off and doing a valve job to trying endless hours of pinout tests with a Ford repair manual I am STILL unable to fix this god damned thing. I give up. I will update this thread when the car is actually fixed, but as of now consider this entire thread a complete waste of my time. I tried to create a record of this so that someone else could use it as a resource in the future. Turns out it was all a big circle jerk.
EDIT: 9/13/11 - After valve job on passenger side head throwing original P0302 / P0316 code and verifying bad valve, put good head back on. Computer is throwing P0305 / P0316 now.
Cliff Notes for the next 4 pages: bad misfire, tried all the usual stuff to remedy, ended up being a bad #2 cylinder exhaust valve.... to be confirmed as soon as I get the head pulled off tomorrow (Saturday)
CASH REWARD OFFERED!!!!!!!
Gentlemen of StangNet: I have a problem that I request your help with. I have contributed to this forum by making a YouTube video on swapping an ABS module w/o removing the brake lines.
I cruised the forums and searched trying to cure my ills before making this post and I will update the community throughout the ordeal and will actually update the final resolution... something I wish more people would do!
My 2002 GT has 153,000 miles on it and I was driving down the road at freeway cruising speed when the car lost power, started shuddering and shaking when given throttle, and a few moments later the CEL light illuminated and later started flashing.
I pulled the codes and got P0302 and P0316 which are Cylinder #2 misfire and Misfire detected first 1000 revolutions on start up.
I should also mention that for two days before this point the vehicle was making a slight ticking noise that followed RPMs and sounded like an exhaust leak. It turned out to be the #2 cylinder spark plug was loose but there is no thread damage. PLEASE NOTE THIS POINT: The spark plug was grey with carbon as was the spark plug well from the compression blow by. All other cylinders' spark plugs were normal and tight.
The car runs like a scalded dog, particularly under load and the idle is rough, the exhaust note is notably different. Sounds like an old dump truck, glarg glarg glarg.
What I have done up to this point following common sense and an order of repair....
1.) Replaced all plugs and plug boots.
2.) Replaced #2 cylinder with a new coil on plug (COP)
3.) Removed all fuel injectors, cleaned them, and replaced them. I swapped #2 injector with the #6 injector on the opposite side of the engine to see if an injector code would follow it. It did not. I'll get to that in a second...
4.) Cleaned MAF
5.) Replaced fuel filter.
6.) Replaced serpentine belt.
7.) Tested for DC voltage on fuel injector harnesses, all test at about 13-14 volts
8.) Tested impedance (ohms) of all fuel injectors. All tested at 15.6 ohm.
9.) Tested for voltage on plug wire pigtail connectors. All pulsed around on the multimeter and had power.
10.) Replaced crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
11.) Tested the alternator for AC voltage between the red post and housing with a .6 volt result.
12.) Tested the alternator for DC output with a 13.3-13.6 volt result. Please note I have a new battery and that the car has had Steeda UDPs for 40,000 miles with zero issues.
13.) Performed a compression test with the following results:
Initial Test on Cylinders:
1 - 105 5 - 115
2 - 100 6 - 110
3 - 105 7 - 105
4 - 100 8 - 110
Second test with a capful of oil in the cylinders:
1 - 140 5 - 160
2 - 135 6 - 150
3 - 140 7 - 135
4 - 135 8 - 160
*** I used a small amount of oil on this test but did not exactly measure how much I was using. I deduce from this second test that the valves are NOT an issue which is a relief considering that a burned exhaust valve or bad seal was a big concern to me as being the cause of this problem. EDIT 8/28/11: IT WAS A BAD VALVE AFTER ALL, HAD TO DO A LEAK DOWN TEST TO CONFIRM
The #2 cylinder spark plug was replaced with a new Autolite 764 which was also the previous model. The last plugs were in the car for about 50,000 miles. Torquing the plugs in did not remedy the problem. The plugs were checked after a drive and were still tight. No thread damage is apparent.
After all of the above actions the car still runs pretty badly at idle, in traffic at low rpms and under load BUT after about 2,000 rpm the misfire and shaking subsides and the engine will roar to life with power though will still have a bit of a hiccup under load at higher RPMs. There is a distinct difference between idle/low rpm and high rpms here in terms of drivability and performance. The CEL light came back with the same codes, P0302 and P0316 even after a new coil, plug, boot, and swapping the injector.
HELP! I'm at my wits end here. The compression test results are a bit encouraging that I don't think I'll have to tear into my heads to repair a valve. The car's motor oil is clean and fresh. The car does not smoke at all. Oil consumption is about a quart over 3-5,000 miles... not bad for a 150k motor.
Lessons learned:
1.) Don't bother with troubleshooting EFI stuff without a scan tool.
2.) If one bank of the engine has a problem, do the same treatment on the other bank of the engine, ex: replace sensors, machine heads, etc. It sucks buying gaskets twice.
3.) Using YouTube can get you a long way in explaining your problem, especially if you aren't a "car guy."
4.) Call several machine shops/dealers and start a price bidding war for services. A Ford dealer wanted $300 to reprogram my PCM. I laughed in his face and left. I got my PCM reprogrammed for $95 by hustling the dealers and bidding them down against each other. Little business is better than no business.
5.) SYNTHETIC OIL IS WORTH EVERY PENNY. I ran Mobil 1 5w20 or 5w30 religiously since day one in the car and when I pulled the heads apart the cam lobes were so clean you could eat off of them.. Absolutely no visible wear at all, just mirror smooth surfaces..... at 154,000 miles and lots of city stop and go miles.
6.) When the CEL flashes at you, you have a serious, serious problem. $100 for a tow to a reputable shop will save your ass. Don't push your engine when the PCM is sounding a three bell alarm. Immediately stop your vehicle and shut it off. In the case of losing oil pressure, you have a matter of seconds before your engine is toast.
7.) When pulling heads off the engine, drain the heads and block by removing the drain plugs on each. Even though I thought my engine was fully drained of coolant, it was not. When the heads came off the coolant got into the oil pan and I used about 4 gallons of oil flushing the thing out to remove all the water. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
8.) Get a proper Ford DVD service manual.
9.) WMBurns, 1987Stangman, trinity_gt, Rick91GT, and HotCobra03, are the man!
CASH REWARD - CEL flashing, severe misfire, P0302 P0316, compression test results
I will leave this unedited for posterity... my frustration was unfairly directed toward those that were trying to give me advice at the expense of their own time. Having StangNet as a resource makes a project like this actually possible! Thanks guys and my apologies.
EDIT: 9/13/11 - After valve job on passenger side head throwing original P0302 / P0316 code and verifying bad valve, put good head back on. Computer is throwing P0305 / P0316 now.
Cliff Notes for the next 4 pages: bad misfire, tried all the usual stuff to remedy, ended up being a bad #2 cylinder exhaust valve.... to be confirmed as soon as I get the head pulled off tomorrow (Saturday)
CASH REWARD OFFERED!!!!!!!
Gentlemen of StangNet: I have a problem that I request your help with. I have contributed to this forum by making a YouTube video on swapping an ABS module w/o removing the brake lines.
I cruised the forums and searched trying to cure my ills before making this post and I will update the community throughout the ordeal and will actually update the final resolution... something I wish more people would do!
My 2002 GT has 153,000 miles on it and I was driving down the road at freeway cruising speed when the car lost power, started shuddering and shaking when given throttle, and a few moments later the CEL light illuminated and later started flashing.
I pulled the codes and got P0302 and P0316 which are Cylinder #2 misfire and Misfire detected first 1000 revolutions on start up.
I should also mention that for two days before this point the vehicle was making a slight ticking noise that followed RPMs and sounded like an exhaust leak. It turned out to be the #2 cylinder spark plug was loose but there is no thread damage. PLEASE NOTE THIS POINT: The spark plug was grey with carbon as was the spark plug well from the compression blow by. All other cylinders' spark plugs were normal and tight.
The car runs like a scalded dog, particularly under load and the idle is rough, the exhaust note is notably different. Sounds like an old dump truck, glarg glarg glarg.
What I have done up to this point following common sense and an order of repair....
1.) Replaced all plugs and plug boots.
2.) Replaced #2 cylinder with a new coil on plug (COP)
3.) Removed all fuel injectors, cleaned them, and replaced them. I swapped #2 injector with the #6 injector on the opposite side of the engine to see if an injector code would follow it. It did not. I'll get to that in a second...
4.) Cleaned MAF
5.) Replaced fuel filter.
6.) Replaced serpentine belt.
7.) Tested for DC voltage on fuel injector harnesses, all test at about 13-14 volts
8.) Tested impedance (ohms) of all fuel injectors. All tested at 15.6 ohm.
9.) Tested for voltage on plug wire pigtail connectors. All pulsed around on the multimeter and had power.
10.) Replaced crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
11.) Tested the alternator for AC voltage between the red post and housing with a .6 volt result.
12.) Tested the alternator for DC output with a 13.3-13.6 volt result. Please note I have a new battery and that the car has had Steeda UDPs for 40,000 miles with zero issues.
13.) Performed a compression test with the following results:
Initial Test on Cylinders:
1 - 105 5 - 115
2 - 100 6 - 110
3 - 105 7 - 105
4 - 100 8 - 110
Second test with a capful of oil in the cylinders:
1 - 140 5 - 160
2 - 135 6 - 150
3 - 140 7 - 135
4 - 135 8 - 160
*** I used a small amount of oil on this test but did not exactly measure how much I was using. I deduce from this second test that the valves are NOT an issue which is a relief considering that a burned exhaust valve or bad seal was a big concern to me as being the cause of this problem. EDIT 8/28/11: IT WAS A BAD VALVE AFTER ALL, HAD TO DO A LEAK DOWN TEST TO CONFIRM
The #2 cylinder spark plug was replaced with a new Autolite 764 which was also the previous model. The last plugs were in the car for about 50,000 miles. Torquing the plugs in did not remedy the problem. The plugs were checked after a drive and were still tight. No thread damage is apparent.
After all of the above actions the car still runs pretty badly at idle, in traffic at low rpms and under load BUT after about 2,000 rpm the misfire and shaking subsides and the engine will roar to life with power though will still have a bit of a hiccup under load at higher RPMs. There is a distinct difference between idle/low rpm and high rpms here in terms of drivability and performance. The CEL light came back with the same codes, P0302 and P0316 even after a new coil, plug, boot, and swapping the injector.
HELP! I'm at my wits end here. The compression test results are a bit encouraging that I don't think I'll have to tear into my heads to repair a valve. The car's motor oil is clean and fresh. The car does not smoke at all. Oil consumption is about a quart over 3-5,000 miles... not bad for a 150k motor.