Clutch Chatter solution ?

[trinity_gt]

I can just imagine the heat-checks on the flywheel and pressure plate and the glaze on the clutch disc now. Think about that hardware glowing red from the heat...

This "solution" gets a from me.

 

[trombonedemon]

I can just imagine the heat-checks on the flywheel and pressure plate and the glaze on the clutch disc now. Think about that hardware glowing red from the heat...

This "solution" gets a from me.

He might have purchased too harsh of a clutch disk, I read too rough of a clutch disk can and will ruined a drive-train among other components. From his upgrades and situation I think his clutch disk is working too well.

 

[trinity_gt]

He might have purchased too harsh of a clutch disk, I read too rough of a clutch disk can and will ruined a drive-train among other components. From his upgrades and situation I think his clutch disk is working too well.

If the clutch is as was pictured above, it doesn't fall into the category of "too-rough." This is the type of clutch disc that will break stuff:

Unsprung hub, puck-style... These are brutal for street use. Unsprung hubs can actually lead to input shaft failures because of the shock they feed into the shaft.

But a disc with a full facing, torsional springs on the hub and and Marcel springs between the facings should not be provoking chatter:

I suspect with all that abuse and slipping the new clutch is likely irreparably damaged. It may not be slipping now but it's more than likely glazed and the friction surfaces heat-damaged (checks, warp etc...)


One thing that occurs to me that may cause a chatter-like feeling is if the engine or trans mount are questionable, especially if that feeling is more noticeable in "reverse" than in a forward gear.

Of course the clutch sees the engine turning the same way so it doesn't really care if the car is in reverse. However, the whole driveline reacts in the opposite direction when the output shaft of the trans is torqued when in reverse. If the mounts are bad, it may show up in this instance.

 

[trombonedemon]

What type of break in period does a clutch need, I've only heard of that type of material on brake pads needing a break in period.

 

[Dark04GT]

I typically got a little burning clutch smell, but pretty minimal. I wouldn't change the clutch out yet, especially given that when you adjusted your cable things were a little better. My clutch took up to 3k miles before it behaved more like the stock clutch (less noise, better driving dynamics). That being said, it still does make more noise than the stock. The break-in period is critical for the clutch. The exact number of miles you need for break-in varies, from experience, my number was 3k. Don't drive too hard on it- it will grip just fine but it will be better in the long run if you don't drive hard. It may temporarily solve the problem but you need more miles on it.

I agree with trinity_gt that the problems in reverse are weird and may represent mounts or some other issue.

 

[midnightdriver]

I can just imagine the heat-checks on the flywheel and pressure plate and the glaze on the clutch disc now. Think about that hardware glowing red from the heat...

This "solution" gets a from me.

Well if I have to replace, who cares right ?

 

[midnightdriver]

I typically got a little burning clutch smell, but pretty minimal. I wouldn't change the clutch out yet, especially given that when you adjusted your cable things were a little better. My clutch took up to 3k miles before it behaved more like the stock clutch (less noise, better driving dynamics). That being said, it still does make more noise than the stock. The break-in period is critical for the clutch. The exact number of miles you need for break-in varies, from experience, my number was 3k. Don't drive too hard on it- it will grip just fine but it will be better in the long run if you don't drive hard. It may temporarily solve the problem but you need more miles on it.

I agree with trinity_gt that the problems in reverse are weird and may represent mounts or some other issue.

Well fine, I will lighten up but its very frustrating. When they he installed the trans, the mounts were in great shape for their age and the I also check the motor mounts and there was no damage, excessive wear either. With the engine loaded and a friend watching, I have no engine rise or rocking.

 

[midnightdriver]

I have one question though, how do you know if you have glazed it over ? I know this may seem odd but could I have been driving the clutch too easy per its design causing it too not build up enough material on the flywheel which is why it is chattering so much ? I was a little harsh on it last night but I in reality I drove it similar to my stock clutch. Where before last night, I drove the car with a very cautious left foot and basically did not slip the clutch at all, just let it out and treated it like a on off clutch.


Oh and I figured out why reverse was shaking the car so badly. I had my rear brakes done yesterday and the right rear was metal on metal and was not releasing causing it to drag. The left rear was similar. So both were greased and now reverse is fine, even before I beat on the clutch a little. Could that have been the burnt smell I always smelled ?

 

[Dark04GT]

I have one question though, how do you know if you have glazed it over ? I know this may seem odd but could I have been driving the clutch too easy per its design causing it too not build up enough material on the flywheel which is why it is chattering so much ? I was a little harsh on it last night but I in reality I drove it similar to my stock clutch. Where before last night, I drove the car with a very cautious left foot and basically did not slip the clutch at all, just let it out and treated it like a on off clutch.


Oh and I figured out why reverse was shaking the car so badly. I had my rear brakes done yesterday and the right rear was metal on metal and was not releasing causing it to drag. The left rear was similar. So both were greased and now reverse is fine, even before I beat on the clutch a little. Could that have been the burnt smell I always smelled ?

The brakes could definitely be the burning smell you were smelling. I'm glad that fixed the problem. Considering you have had 1.5k on the setup thus far I doubt your stuff is glazed and your clutch sounded like it held it fine. Just keep at it. Give us an update another 1k from now.

 

[midnightdriver]

Well, I was getting on the freeway last night and as I did a pull in 2nd gear. After that every engagement was very shaky, and felt as though there was something lose in the clutch assembly. All I can say is wow, I didn't know that a basically stock gt could kill a 520ft/lb rated clutch. Now what to do with the car is the question.

 

[trinity_gt]

Well if I have to replace, who cares right ?

 

[midnightdriver]

You are correct in quoting me, I am just am upset that the center hub assembly would come apart in just 1800 miles. I mean, glazing over the surface, would definitely be my fault if that were the case. However, I don't beat my cars nor do I wish too. Just wonder why there was such poor craftsmanship on the clutch assembly. I just don't get it.

 

[AdRock]

It could be the springs in the disc hub that are bad. Or it could possibly have something to do with the rivets in the friction material.

I bought a 2.1 Fidanza clutch and intalled it along with a Fidanza aluminum flywheel I had. Mine chattered a little, but nothing major. After being in the car about 6 months.........


The results are in the attached pics.


I was at the track, made a run, then came back into the pits and parked. Everything was fine. Decided to move the car over by a buddy's. Goosed it a little in 1st gear and BOOM..... all hell broke loose. Looed like the rivets for the friction material decided to stop doing their job.

 

[midnightdriver]

It could be the springs in the disc hub that are bad. Or it could possibly have something to do with the rivets in the friction material.

I bought a 2.1 Fidanza clutch and intalled it along with a Fidanza aluminum flywheel I had. Mine chattered a little, but nothing major. After being in the car about 6 months.........


The results are in the attached pics.


I was at the track, made a run, then came back into the pits and parked. Everything was fine. Decided to move the car over by a buddy's. Goosed it a little in 1st gear and BOOM..... all hell broke loose. Looed like the rivets for the friction material decided to stop doing their job.

Thats crazy, I am having it taken out of the car tomorrow and will take pictures and post them up of the damage. But that is unbelievable, hope it didn't damage your car at all.

 

[Dark04GT]

Thats crazy, I am having it taken out of the car tomorrow and will take pictures and post them up of the damage. But that is unbelievable, hope it didn't damage your car at all.

Sucks that your clutch is not doing the best. Hope your clutch doesn't look like Adrocks'. (sorry adrock, that sucks). I was on the side to wait it out but I've never seen the car or experienced what you are experiencing. Looks like it is time for you to go clutch shopping.

 

[midnightdriver]

Update

So the pressure plate was only working on one half meaning the clutch was only getting pressed into the flywheel on half of the clutch face. It torched the flywheel and the shop did not recommended me reusing the flywheel.

So..

I am getting a stock replacement 03/04 cobra clutch kit from ford. Which includes a new flywheel for the 11" clutch along with a new clutch, pressure plate, ford racing pilot bearing and throwout bearing, which is going to cost me 525 for all the parts, including flywheel. Not too bad and at least i will have a good clutch in the car that I know is DD capable and also hold lots of power when I go FI later.

 

[midnightdriver]

Update

So the pressure plate was only working on one half meaning the clutch was only getting pressed into the flywheel on half of the clutch face. It torched the flywheel and the shop did not recommended me reusing the flywheel.

So..

I am getting a stock replacement 03/04 cobra clutch kit from ford. Which includes a new flywheel for the 11" clutch along with a new clutch, pressure plate, ford racing pilot bearing and throwout bearing, which is going to cost me 525 for all the parts, including flywheel. Not too bad and at least i will have a good clutch in the car that I know is DD capable and also hold lots of power when I go FI later.

Well scratch that idea, the 03/04 clutch kit flywheel for my car is on back order or something and won't be able to get it for several weeks.

The shop suggested I take a look at Luk Pro Gold and luckily we can save the poor flywheel, which will save me some cash.



Well, I am installing the Luk Pro Gold clutch kit in my car. The rep said it has about 65% more clamping force then stock and it is better balanced as well. Plus it has a 12,000 mile warranty . Plus I talked to the shop that rebuilt my trans and they said Luk is a great company and the progold should handle a supercharger no problem on a stock engine, ie no more them 8psi of boost.

 

[midnightdriver]

So more bad news, The flywheel is too damaged from the clutch and needs to be replaced. But ford no longer makes my 8 bolt flywheel, so after 3 hours of phone calls the shop located one in the midwest and is being next day aired to get the car fixed.

Why is 2000 so hard to find parts for? I think I am going to sell the car when it is fixed, it's so hard to find replacement parts for the Windsor powered cars, or at least out in Cal. I don't know what I will get because I love that car, just don't want to deal with a hard to find parts car.

 

[joshjwc9]

Um, if you look on varying websites, there are aftermarket 8 bolt flywheels. All Cobra engines had 8 bolt flywheels as did our 99/2000 GT's. What are you having trouble finding??

 

[ChillPhatCat]

That's just silly, there's a ton of parts availability. Just because a shop couldn't find a part they would put in there from their distributors doesn't mean parts are hard to come by. There is a giant aftermarket.