Coolant/Oil Mixing - found freeze plug in oil pan

[LONN17]

The the title says... Just finished doing a lot of work to the car (headers/heads/cam/roller rockers....) and finally got it running saturday for the cam break-in. I got good pressure and coolant stayed the right temp. Right before I shut it down I noticed steam coming out of the breather. When I checked the oil when done it was mocha-froth. Not exactly what I wanted to see. I pulled the oil pan and found a 1/2" freeze plug stuck in the pick-up. Where are the 1/2" plugs located? I am assuming this is the problem and not one of the new head gaskets or leak at the timing cover/water pump/head bolts.

Little back ground - The last I really drove the car was in 2001 after my freshman year of college because I couldnt afford insurance on a second car and didnt want to keep it in philadelphia where I went to school. Last year I took the car out of storage and put a clutch in it and got it running again. I drove it once about 5 miles and that was about it. I idled it about once per month also. I always checked the oil first so the water would have been seperated and sitting at the bottom. The car sat outside last winter so I am guessing it popped out then (although I did check my antifreeze and it was supposedly good to -10 degrees or so.)

So.... where are the 1/2" plugs located on the inside of the block?

Trevor

 

[Spoofty]

The small plugs go in the oil gallies behind the timing chain. If one had popped out then you probably wouldn't get any oil up to the rockers on one head. Pull your valve covers and to see if head looks dry.
They plug the oil passages to the lifters not water. This shouldn't have anything to do with milky oil.

 

[tos]

I think maybe under the timing cover there is a 1/2 inch plug or two. Theres not too many drain passages big enough to make their way to the pan.

 

[LONN17]

Are these the only 1/2" plugs that could get to the oil pan? I want to try and get this fixed in one shot this week since I my lease is up and I have to be out of my garage this friday.

To remedy this do I have to go in through the timing cover or can I drop the oil pan and knock it in from the inside. The latter of the two would require much less time so thats what I am hoping to hear.

*A picture of the one in question would be very helpful*

To aid in reassembly I snapped some pics during the tear down w/ the timing cover off which I hope will answer my question.

Trevor

 

[Spoofty]

You have to pull the timing cover and timing chain. I have all of this off my motor so I will try to get you some pics when I get home. But as I said before these plugs are in the oil gallies and would have nothing to do with milky oil. That's a different problem. With an oil galley plug missing the oil will just spew out of the front of the block on to the timing chain and into the pan. That would give you low oil pressure and you would not get oil up the pushrods on one head depending on which one was out. There are 3 on the front of the motor and 3 on the back.

 

[LONN17]

Ok, I'll check my pics tonight when I get home also.

If its not this plug what are the other avenues for collant getting into the oil and vice versa? Head gasket, head bolts, intake gaskets....? I guess I should start with which bolts go through water jackets and reseal them all.

I have a weiand stealth which I moved my heater hose line from the standard location by the water neck/thermostate to the rear-most port on the driverside. I think I checked to verify that this was a coolant port but if it is for oil this could be the problem. I didnt turn on the heater while the car was running.

Also, this "fluid exchanging" is going both ways. I can see some oil residue floating in my radiator.

 

[SoCalCruising]

There are no oil passages in your Stealth. There are both vacuum (on intake runner) and water ports on the rear of the intake. The vacuum ports are fairly obviously on intake runners. The rear cross-over water passage has the coolant port and is at the rear corner, driver's side, if I recall correctly. Tapping the intake runner would not be a good thing .... please check.

Not all of the oil gallery plugs are as large as 1/2". I don't recall what size goes where - I had the machine shop install mine. I friendly machine shop or counter man at your local Ford dealership should be able to tell you where the 1/2" plugs go. That might narrow down your search.

Sorry about this. I don't envy your having to get out of the garage so soon with a probelm like this one. I hope it works out.

 

[truck90278]

there are not any "soft" plugs that restrict oil from getting with water. the plugs are frequently replaced with pipe threaded plugs so they can not come out. As SoCalCruising and Spoofty indicate, you would loose oil pressure to one bank or the other with one of these soft plugs came out. Usually, they are pressed in (like a "freeze" plug would be with additional staking around the edge to prevent them from coming out. Probably one of the three behind the cam gear. As far as wate, you have to have a bad seal somewhere, between manifold and heads is a good bet. Have you milled the heads? If you have and did not mill the intake manifold, that can be a sealing problem

 

[69gmachine]

Here are some possible causes in no particular order:

1) poor seal around water ports in head. I had this happen to me with my Torker II intake. Use a radiator pressure tester to see if the coolant system will hold pressure. If it doesn't hold pressure, and you can't see an obvious leak, it's probably leaking into the oil at the head. Just remove and replace the intake gaskets and take your time to make sure everything is clean and seals properly. Recommend using RTV around the water ports of the heads and then lay the intake gaskets in place and let dry. After allowing time to dry, put more sealant on the gaskets around the water ports, install the intake and torque to specs. I've found that the end cork gaskets can hold the intake up high enough that you don't get a good seal, but I don't like to ditch them altogether. I shave them down slightly and use plenty of RTV. A lot of people only use RTV. Every time I've tried it without cork I had oil leaks.

2) Blown head gasket. This is easliy tested with a compression test. I've had this one too. Depending on what caused it in the first place, you may be able to get it back together by just replacing gaskets. If it blew because it overheated, and the heads are aluminum, there is an almost certainty that they have warped. You may be able to have them milled and re-use them if it's very slight, but I had to throw a 4 cyl Toyota head in the trash before it was bowed so bad.

3) cracked head/block. If the head or block has a hairline crack in the water jacket, it could be steaming out when it's up to operating temp. This may be the hardest one to find. You may be able to detect it with a radiator pressure test set, but you really need to take in to a shop to be magnafluxed.

Good luck. I'm bettin' it's 1)

 

[LONN17]

I had the heads CC'd before I installed them and they were at 60 - these are '70 351W heads. I think this is stock. They are port matched to a 1262 felpro intake gasket.

I know that the port I switched the heater hose to is the rear-most driverside port which I am certain isn't a vacuum port. Just wanted to make sure it wasnt some funky oil passage. The intake I pulled off of there didnt have a port there.

Can somebody please list for me or show me a link to which bolts require thread sealer. I did the head bolts but not the water pump/timing cover bolts (I have a '70 driver side pump and the FRPP timing cover). Do these need it too? How much water can get past a bolt in this little amount of time?

I wouldnt mind pulling and resealing my head studs which are under the valve cover but the the ones on the lower portion of the head require the removal of the headers and other parts so I would love to rule these ones out.

Note that the engine ran perfect and the exhaust was clean so it wasnt getting into the cylinders.

 

[SoCalCruising]

You seal the head bolts on the outside of the engine - near your headers. Sorry. Try the intake, like 69gmachine suggested. It's easier that some of the other fixes. I use Gaskacinch (Edelbrock) on the head side around the intake ports and RTV around the water ports (both sides). If you use a self sealing gasket (like 1250 is), I don't recommend anything on the manifold side. I use The Right Stuff(TM) on the end rails, without cork, so long as the gap is small. If large, use the cork plus The Right Stuff(TM) or RTV. If the gap is non-existent, you must have the intake's end rails milled to create the gap. Without this gap, the intake will never seal against the head properly. This is not an uncommon situation when using old parts (heads milled, block decked - both diminish the end-rail gap). Even when I used a new block (slightly decked for squareness) and new heads and intake, I had no gap and had to have the intake end-rails milled. This is a good tip - I'm just reinforcing what 69gmachine said above.

 

[Spoofty]

Here's some pics of the oil galley plug from a spare block I had sitting around.

As you can see this block is missing one too. The top two are the oil gallies for the lifters. I think the bottem one is for the cam. So if the plug is missing then you are not getting the oil you need to these parts. I think the bottem one is larger that the top two.
Hope this helps.

 

[LONN17]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Spoofty, in my pics I can clearly see the two plugs you have but I have a bad angle (in about 6 or 7 picks, doh!) on the same one that you are missing. I am pretty sure that is the responsible party on that front.

Regargind the coolant problem I plan to take all the accessories off and tap a new plug in there. Following that I am going to re-seal the head studs and do the intake gaskets over again. Do any of the accessory/timing cover bolts require sealant? Heck, I'll do them all too. To follow up I'll throw on a new filter and 5qts of fresh oil and run it for 15 min or so to see where that gets me.

Sound like a good attack plan to you guys? Am I missing anything?

Thanks,
Trevor

 

[Spoofty]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Do any of the accessory/timing cover bolts require sealant? Heck, I'll do them all too. To follow up I'll throw on a new filter and 5qts of fresh oil and run it for 15 min or so to see where that gets me.

Sound like a good attack plan to you guys? Am I missing anything?

Thanks,
Trevor

I would seal these ones they go into the water jacket.

 

[dennis112]

I would seal these ones they go into the water jacket.

NOT a good idea if you want to run a stock water pump.

 

[67Dylan]

Regargind the coolant problem I plan to take all the accessories off and tap a new plug in there. Following that I am going to re-seal the head studs and do the intake gaskets over again. Do any of the accessory/timing cover bolts require sealant? Heck, I'll do them all too. To follow up I'll throw on a new filter and 5qts of fresh oil and run it for 15 min or so to see where that gets me.

Are you sure you had good pressure when it initially ran? What is good pressure (readings while it ran)? What kind of thread sealer did you intially use? Using it again or another? I use ARP thread sealer and have never had a problem, but there are other brands that are just as reliable.

IMO you have a good plan. I also believe it to be a seal problem and not the heads/block giving you a leak; use a pressure tester and find out. I also agree w/what 69g says, except I use a nice thick bead of RTV on the front and rear instead of the cork gaskets; everyone is slightyly different and either way is fine. An important step IMO is to tighten down the bolts in the correct order and lb's each tightening sequence.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[LONN17]

I used permatex and I think it is probably sufficient but I may as well make sure this isnt the problem. I'll prob just use permatex again because I doubt anyone stocks the ARP stuff locally.

By good pressure - my new autometer was reading 50psi at about 2200rpm. I have a standard volume oil pump.

Trevor

 

[67Dylan]

I agree, no need to change from permatex since I think it's just as good as AFR. You know, if it ain't broke...

Are you going to pressure test the cooling system? You should be able to rent one from a parts store. Good luck!

 

[LONN17]

Can pressure testing it reveal the whereabouts of a leak or just let me know if I still have one once I "fix" things?

Trevor

 

[67Dylan]

Can pressure testing it reveal the whereabouts of a leak or just let me know if I still have one once I "fix" things?

Trevor

both.