Crank, no start.

01_GT

Member
Oct 6, 2020
7
1
13
31
Santa fe NM
So to start off with its a 2001 GT with some basic bolt ons: LT headers, o/r x pipe, magnaflow cat back, upr k member, jlt intake, sct tuner, steeda tri ax short shifter, act clutch. Previous owner did the auto- manual swap.
Now the issue. Car has been running perfectly fine up until two days ago. It snowed about 8 inches over night so the next day the car just sat in the driveway. The folling day i went to start the car and it would just crank but not start. I thought it was because it was cold (12*F) took me about 15 minutes to start the car, once started it ran fine on the way to work. When i got off work 9 hours later same issue, crank but no start. This time i noticed the cooling fan kicked on as soon as i turned the key to on. Car started after about 10 minutes and drove home. Next day same thing Happened. Crank no start. This time i noticed the fan turns on, instrument cluster had (- - -) on the odometer, and the fuel pump was not priming. Hooked up my scan tool and it would not communicate with the car, same with the SCT. Confirmed fuel pump not priming with fuel pressure guage at the fuel rails showing no pressure while cranking. Eventually after about 5 minutes of just leaving key on the fan would shut off and id be able to start the car like the other times.So based on research iv done i decided to rule out the ccrm by swapping it with a known good one, swapped it with my buddies and the same thing is happening on my car not his using HIS ccrm. Further research i did says that these symptoms are either PATS or CCRM related, but my theft light does not flash, and the ccrm from my buddies car had no effect. The car will start after about 5 maybe 10 minutes of leaving the key on. Can anybody lead me in the right direction as to what to check next?
 
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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
898
139
53
51
Massachusetts
Hi,
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
So-Differences are cold weather, and potential moisture within an electrical circuit that are variables.
You attempted to pull codes and the Tuner/Scantool denied you access, did it give you a numeric value, I.e. 14,000, etc? This is an SCT device? Carefully check all the pins and ensure none are bent, and the obd2 female pins to make certain no corrosion exists.
I’d be using a Read-Only Scantool for this, can corrupt a program if the tool is malfunctioning.
We’re you tuning the car at all during this period?
PATS flashes 3 times to prove out, if no lingering/solid flashes it’s likely fine.
GROUNDS & POWER WIRES:
The ground wires are black or black with a white stripe.Check all your grounds, from the Battery terminals cleaned. To the block, to the chassis, to the Computer(all important, remove, add electrical grease after scraping away paint, etc, tighten)..
Replace any bad battery terminals that have extra accommodations if required.
Check if:
1) Moisture entered a fuse block, or somewiring, pop off the fuse covers and look for evidence of a water leak, e.g weatherstripping..
2) Battery voltage is low or being pulled down by a bad cell, vulnerable by the temp change. Battery a sealed type?
You mentioned once the fan turned off you were able to start the car.. Pull your terminals off & bring the battery in to Autozone, Advanced Auto for a load test.
First, test across the terminals for 12VDC PLUS when someone’s cranking over the car, any less and the plugs won’t fire, injectors won’t pulse. Test your alternator output while running, carefully, with a DVOM. Should be 13.7VDC off the #6 red Alt wire going to the battery.
Fuses:
Test for key on power in and out of fuse F2.34, F2.2, and F2.8. Use a KNOWN good ground. Where to go next depends upon the specific results.

In general. Assuming all fuses have been confirmed good, If no key on power into fuse F2.34 suspect a bad ignition switch.

IF no key on power in fuse F2.2 and F2.8 suspect a CCRM related "issue" (either bad CCRM or bad CCRM ground).
Battery, C.S.
What sticks out is the fuel pump not priming with key on.. Check your inertia switch in the trunk and all associated pump wiring, corrosion aand loose relay pins should be repaired..
With the weather any water in the fuel may be freezing. You mentioned the pump didn’t prime, the fan ran, and the dashes on the display.
EEC.. NOT to spook you:
Again IF this problem (cluster displaying all dashes) after connectors were probed and no other problems to explain why the PCM isn't powering up, the prospect of of a faulty PCM needs to be considered once all other troubleshooting has ruled out other issues.
EEC ISSUES..
Other signs of a non powered PCM (or bad PCM) are the cooling fan running all the time. Other signs are a lack of communication from an ODB2 reader/scanner.
Lastly, a constant theft light- which you do not have, correct?
I’d go through the basics, solid grounds on a load tested battery, check your fuses above, buy a shop manual, see what you find..
Good luck!
John
 

01_GT

Member
Oct 6, 2020
7
1
13
31
Santa fe NM
Hi,
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
So-Differences are cold weather, and potential moisture within an electrical circuit that are variables.
You attempted to pull codes and the Tuner/Scantool denied you access, did it give you a numeric value, I.e. 14,000, etc? This is an SCT device? Carefully check all the pins and ensure none are bent, and the obd2 female pins to make certain no corrosion exists.
I’d be using a Read-Only Scantool for this, can corrupt a program if the tool is malfunctioning.
We’re you tuning the car at all during this period?
PATS flashes 3 times to prove out, if no lingering/solid flashes it’s likely fine.
GROUNDS & POWER WIRES:
The ground wires are black or black with a white stripe.Check all your grounds, from the Battery terminals cleaned. To the block, to the chassis, to the Computer(all important, remove, add electrical grease after scraping away paint, etc, tighten)..
Replace any bad battery terminals that have extra accommodations if required.
Check if:
1) Moisture entered a fuse block, or somewiring, pop off the fuse covers and look for evidence of a water leak, e.g weatherstripping..
2) Battery voltage is low or being pulled down by a bad cell, vulnerable by the temp change. Battery a sealed type?
You mentioned once the fan turned off you were able to start the car.. Pull your terminals off & bring the battery in to Autozone, Advanced Auto for a load test.
First, test across the terminals for 12VDC PLUS when someone’s cranking over the car, any less and the plugs won’t fire, injectors won’t pulse. Test your alternator output while running, carefully, with a DVOM. Should be 13.7VDC off the #6 red Alt wire going to the battery.
Fuses:
Test for key on power in and out of fuse F2.34, F2.2, and F2.8. Use a KNOWN good ground. Where to go next depends upon the specific results.

In general. Assuming all fuses have been confirmed good, If no key on power into fuse F2.34 suspect a bad ignition switch.

IF no key on power in fuse F2.2 and F2.8 suspect a CCRM related "issue" (either bad CCRM or bad CCRM ground).
Battery, C.S.
What sticks out is the fuel pump not priming with key on.. Check your inertia switch in the trunk and all associated pump wiring, corrosion aand loose relay pins should be repaired..
With the weather any water in the fuel may be freezing. You mentioned the pump didn’t prime, the fan ran, and the dashes on the display.
EEC.. NOT to spook you:
Again IF this problem (cluster displaying all dashes) after connectors were probed and no other problems to explain why the PCM isn't powering up, the prospect of of a faulty PCM needs to be considered once all other troubleshooting has ruled out other issues.
EEC ISSUES..
Other signs of a non powered PCM (or bad PCM) are the cooling fan running all the time. Other signs are a lack of communication from an ODB2 reader/scanner.
Lastly, a constant theft light- which you do not have, correct?
I’d go through the basics, solid grounds on a load tested battery, check your fuses above, buy a shop manual, see what you find..
Good luck!
John
Wow thanks for the info! So some of those things i have already done. Alternator is at 14.1. And battery load tested checked out fine aswell so ruled those out right out of the gate. I confirmed zero moisture in any of the fuse blocks. I defined had not been doing any tuning hadn’t hooked up my sct in weeks as a matter of fact)I didnt however check the fuses you mentioned so ill definitely be doing that here in a bit (assuming car wont start again). No theft light and i have checked all grounds, all but one were good. The one i couldnt figure out where it went is on the passenger side up towards the hing for the hood, flat ground strap about 12” long, so anybody that can point oit where it goes please do. And yes the SCT handheld would not communicate with the car (it just displayed giant letters stating that there was no communication with the car no code) and my scan tool (from autozone, it just reads/clears codes and Datalogs) said the sane thing. But everytime the car would not start the odometer displayed(- - -), and the fan was running, pump would not prime, and couldn’t communicate with the car via obd port all simultaneously. Now all that literally goes away at the sane time. The fan shuts off, the fuel pump primes (you can hear it when it does), the dashes on the odometer go away and it displays mileage like usual, and either scan tool communicates just fine, and of course car will start like normal. Only thing i have been able to confirm is that just cranking and cranking the car over did nothing, leaving thr key in the on position for a couple minutes usually did the trick. Ill go out here in a bit and see what happens. If no start ill check fuses and continue looking for a place to put that one ground strap. Thanks for the info!
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
898
139
53
51
Massachusetts
Wow thanks for the info! So some of those things i have already done. Alternator is at 14.1. And battery load tested checked out fine aswell so ruled those out right out of the gate. I confirmed zero moisture in any of the fuse blocks. I defined had not been doing any tuning hadn’t hooked up my sct in weeks as a matter of fact)I didnt however check the fuses you mentioned so ill definitely be doing that here in a bit (assuming car wont start again). No theft light and i have checked all grounds, all but one were good. The one i couldnt figure out where it went is on the passenger side up towards the hing for the hood, flat ground strap about 12” long, so anybody that can point oit where it goes please do. And yes the SCT handheld would not communicate with the car (it just displayed giant letters stating that there was no communication with the car no code) and my scan tool (from autozone, it just reads/clears codes and Datalogs) said the sane thing. But everytime the car would not start the odometer displayed(- - -), and the fan was running, pump would not prime, and couldn’t communicate with the car via obd port all simultaneously. Now all that literally goes away at the sane time. The fan shuts off, the fuel pump primes (you can hear it when it does), the dashes on the odometer go away and it displays mileage like usual, and either scan tool communicates just fine, and of course car will start like normal. Only thing i have been able to confirm is that just cranking and cranking the car over did nothing, leaving thr key in the on position for a couple minutes usually did the trick. Ill go out here in a bit and see what happens. If no start ill check fuses and continue looking for a place to put that one ground strap. Thanks for the info!
Hi,
No problem-o. Heyyyy, you said you checked the grounds, lol..The strap you’re speaking of bolts to the rear of the passenger side cylinder head, and is an important block to chassis ground.
Another important ground is a dedicated ground to the EEC directly from the battery, I’d check/recheck for solid continuity there. All it takes is one wire not terminated solidly or one bad connection to create chaos. Check your EEC’s main connector, it’s pins & sleeves carefully.
Look at your main & EEC power, other fuse blades & female pins for corrosion or loose connections, sometimes it really is as simple as that. The Keyswitch itself.
Intermittent issues may be difficult to trace, move slowly and overlook nothing.
Do you have the electrical diagrams for your Car?
Best of luck!
John
 

01_GT

Member
Oct 6, 2020
7
1
13
31
Santa fe NM
Hi,
No problem-o. Heyyyy, you said you checked the grounds, lol..The strap you’re speaking of bolts to the rear of the passenger side cylinder head, and is an important block to chassis ground.
Another important ground is a dedicated ground to the EEC directly from the battery, I’d check/recheck for solid continuity there. All it takes is one wire not terminated solidly or one bad connection to create chaos. Check your EEC’s main connector, it’s pins & sleeves carefully.
Look at your main & EEC power, other fuse blades & female pins for corrosion or loose connections, sometimes it really is as simple as that. The Keyswitch itself.
Intermittent issues may be difficult to trace, move slowly and overlook nothing.
Do you have the electrical diagrams for your Car?
Best of luck!
John
Yea i checked literally everything! Lol. Ill get that ground strap hooked up tomorrow. Based on the diagram i have (alldata) pin 3 in the pcm is ground and pin 103 says power ground, not sure which is wat but pin 3 has continuity, didnt check 103 not till tomorrow anyway, not sure what it is supposed to be at. Ground and power and there at the CCRM. As far as the dedicated ground for the eec from the battery, not sire which one it is suppoed to be, am i looking for a single wire coming from the battery kinda thing or something in the eec pinout? Ill keep searching and going through diagrams, im no expert by anymeans but little at a time i can rule certain things out. Unfortunately its an intermittent issue so only when it doesnt start can i actually troubleshoot! Ever since my last post it only did it once, early morning the next day, but in a matter of literally a minute all symptoms went away and hasnt done it since! Thank for the help ill keep updating as i go.
 
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01_GT

Member
Oct 6, 2020
7
1
13
31
Santa fe NM
Well just an update, went a little over a week without any issues until today. Went out this morning and the issue presented itself once again. After about 3 maybe 5 minutes car started right up. When this started it was right after a snow storm hit. Last night we got A LOT of water, and this morning i had the sane issues again. Im guessing water/moisture is making its way in somewhere where it is not supposed to. I checked the obvious spots (fuse boxes under the hood and under the dash, pcm in the kick panel, checked the trunk where the red button is at) and saw no obvious signs of moisture/water anywhere. I didnt move the car nor start it while it was raining, didnt try and start it until this morning (rained last night). Can anyone help me with anything i might be missing? Seals or spots where water might be making its way into?
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
898
139
53
51
Massachusetts
Well just an update, went a little over a week without any issues until today. Went out this morning and the issue presented itself once again. After about 3 maybe 5 minutes car started right up. When this started it was right after a snow storm hit. Last night we got A LOT of water, and this morning i had the sane issues again. Im guessing water/moisture is making its way in somewhere where it is not supposed to. I checked the obvious spots (fuse boxes under the hood and under the dash, pcm in the kick panel, checked the trunk where the red button is at) and saw no obvious signs of moisture/water anywhere. I didnt move the car nor start it while it was raining, didnt try and start it until this morning (rained last night). Can anyone help me with anything i might be missing? Seals or spots where water might be making its way in, I Hello again..
Hi,
As thought previously evidence suggests cause as direct moisture infiltration, yet i’d suggest remaining open minded as you continue a troubleshooting as unbelievable coincidence(s) occur quite often.
You’re likely aware but I’ll elaborate to clarify. In addition to Battery ground the alternative (or floating, isolated**) ground the EEC produces* to communicate with certain sensory components whilst controlling others. If (1) component utilizing this ground fails, via a shorted wire to ground others may be affected, for instance..

1) Fuel injector pulses...
2) Ignition, COP pulses..
3) EVR, Solenoid for the EGR.n
Example of Sensors
1) TPS
2) IACV
Moisture inside a sensor, even a little could cause the injectors to cease pulses, etc.
we’re you able to retrieve any Codes?
It’s a crank no start- right? Turns over fine?
I’d try to run some water over the window seals, etc with a hose & see if you can find a weak spot.
I’ll add to this, let me know if you can about the above...
Good luck!
John
* Has a slight resistance value to battery ground...
** Not a very heavy duty circuit, can be affected easily..
Codes?
You mentioned key in ignition left there would help, was that Key On, or just inserted?
Did you acquire a shop manual yet?
 
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