Cranks but no fire.... Help

squeak93

15 Year Member
Jun 2, 2005
2,141
323
164
Joplin, Missouri
ok. 98 gt. 03 mountainer motor. We swaped the front cover, cam covers and oil pan. All sensors are from the 98. ballancer is from the 03. I used my coil pack set up as long as the 98's return style fuel system. We bled the air out of the fuel rails, so it has fuel.. It back fired on us as we were trying to crank. SO that tells me it has some sort of spark.

Now someone mentioned to me last night that I should of transfered the crank sensor sprocket.... we did not do that. We used the 03 set up with a 98 sensor. Would that cause me issues. I don't want to pull the front cover again just to find out they are the same.

The motor came out of a running car and they did a comp check before it was pulled. Everythign was 150 psi and above.

I am lost here. My starter isn't even cranking right. This is an aluminum block, so could I have issues with my grounds now as they alum may not ground as good?

All the wires on the battery were getting hot while cranking. There was a bit of smoke coming off the back of the motor. That tells me either the exhaust had oil on it, very possible, or some other wiring got hot.

I am lost. I trouble shot it last night for a bit. Just no clue whats going on or why it won't fire. It tried a few times, but sounded as if the timing were way off....... Now the car had a timing adjuster on it before, but we put the 03 ballancer on to get away from that. Should I try to put that back on?
 
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Update..... Not that anyone is reading.

The car still won't fire. We swapped the crank timing gear out and the crank sensor pick up wheel and we still can't get it to fire. We think that since the engine has been sitting for 3 years that the followers have bleed down. We tried to pull the plugs and unhook the injectors then crank it over to build oil pressure (we don't know any other way to move a crank driven oil pump). We still cannot get the car to start. It cranks then stutters then cranks some more if that makes any sence. The car started just fine before we put the new motor in. It spins freely with a ratchet on the front bolt but we cannot get the damn thing to fire for the life of us. It has spark and fuel, just the timing/valves is/are not working right.


Any help would be apprectiated.
 
some reading

Chart 3
Starting Concerns:
No Start, Normal Crank
Note: Extended cranking because of a no start can load the exhaust system with raw fuel, damaging the catalytic converter after the engine starts. For applications with Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Systems, perform the following after the no start has been repaired: Disconnect the electric secondary air injection (AIR) solid state relay, run the engine until the surplus fuel is used up, and reconnect the relay (disconnecting the relay may set a Continuous Memory PCM DTC that will need to be cleared).



SYSTEM/COMPONENT REFERENCE (Section 5 Pinpoint Test unless noted)
Add-on Anti-Theft Devices
Visual, check with customer.

Fuel/Ignition
Thunderbird and LS6/LS8:
GO to KB85 .
All others:
GO to A1 .

If engine will not start now:
If engine will not start at closed throttle, but will start and run normally at part throttle, check Idle Air Control (IAC) System.
Engine will now start and run normally at part throttle:
GO to KE2

Exhaust System (restrictions)
GO to HF1

Base Engine
Engine System - General Information Section 303 of the Workshop Manual.


Additional Testing
GO to Z1
 
Plug wires have been checked about 10 times by 5 different folks just to ensure none of us are looking at it wrong.

All vac lines, pvc lines and tubes are hooked up correctly. I have all sensors pluged in, all injectors are plugged in correctly. Nothing is making sense.

Hotcobra03, I have no clue what you posted. Looks like diagnostics for crank but no start. I have no cats so not too worried about a bit of fuel getting in the exhaust. I has actually back fired a few times which is obviously not good. We thought it was the crank sensor pu wheel and changed that but are getting the same results.

The newer motor has sat for 3 years. Any ideas on how to get valves unstuck if that indeed is our problem?
 
no start

yes that was somethings to look for that cause crank/no start..its from fords service manual for your car ...as to valves i think a compression test would tell you if they are stuck,,,,sounds to me like your fuel is cutting off on you..if you really have spark at the spark plug ,you can rule out the anti-theft and some others..if you dont have a fuel pressure tester, you might try pushing in on scrader valve and see if you have some type of flow,,, i would think that even with a couple of stuck valves it would still start but sound bad,,,,not that i would but have before a shot of starting fluid should allow it to start if you have a fuel problem?
 
I have good pressue at the schrader valve (pressing is while the key is on results in a old faithful dispplay)

I thought the same but the theft is intermittent and its kiling the starter, not spark.

I need to do a compression test. Didn't think about that for the valves sticking. Guess I have a ton of work. Ugh.

Just wish things could go a bit easier... This was obviously supposed to be a pull and go....
 
no start

fwiw,,,im no pro but i am older and grew up when points and condensers were used...getting an engine to start is easy,,,it needs three things ,,air,fuel,spark,,, than that need timing and compression... i have everything on a ford service disc but most is too large to post or understand with out switching to printable view,,the pics and wire diagrams are also hard some i can post some i cant,,if you need anything for help pm me an email address i can sent thier with no problems,,,,,good luck
 
Pm Sent.

I have a few theory's obviously. The first and main one is a lot more than one or two valves are stuck. So we are going to pull the cam covers (ugh) and see what they look like with the motor spinning..... then go from there.
 
squeak

hey tell us more details on what was done,,,im reading the email im getting ready to send you,and see the 03 engine you say you have has a knock sensor under the intake? did you see that?mustangs dont use them,,
 
Yes there is a knock sensor under the intake. It is not pluged into anything as obviously there is no where to go with it.

I can try to get a vid of it tonight and see what happens.

We have thought about the cam pu being differnt between the two years. I will call my local dealership today and see if they can get me part #'s and applications.


Here is what I am working with to clear it up.

03 mounty motor. We have swapped over from the 98 npi motor: front cover, crank timing gears, crank sensor pu, crank sensor, cam sensor, valve covers, upper plenum and such, headers/egr, oil pan, oil pan pu and dipstick, and all coolant sensors. I think that is all we have had to switch over so far.

The motor tries to turn over and makes a sad attemt at firing, but just won't. It seems as if something is killing power to the starter intermittently(Sp) and that is causing other issues. The theft light will flash really quick and the check engine + batter light will light up opposite of each other depending on what the starter is doing. before with the old motor (even with two dead cylinders) it fired right up every time w/o issue. Now, we can't even get it to turn over correctly.


All wires are hooked up correctly and it has all been quadruple checked. Thats the first things we did and continue to do. I am lost and have even stumped ford techs....(have a buddy that is a ford dealership mechanic, a great one at that)
 
Ok, can do that. I still have the 03 sensor I can try as well, just the plug end is angled a bit differnt and it may cause me to have to modify my coil pack/power steering res bracket. I'll do both tonight and let you guys know whats happened on both. I'll also see if I can get a vid of it cranking.
 
Well, I got it figured out and I am one pissed off mofo. We have done all this work only to find out that the Autozone.com chart we were using to route the plug wires was 100% incorrect. So once we finally found another reliable route sourch and bingo! Car starts and runs just fine now. Being pulling my hair out for 2 weeks only to find out one of the countrys largest parts suppliers can't get their chit together. :nonono:
 
Well, I got it figured out and I am one pissed off mofo. We have done all this work only to find out that the Autozone.com chart we were using to route the plug wires was 100% incorrect. So once we finally found another reliable route sourch and bingo! Car starts and runs just fine now. Being pulling my hair out for 2 weeks only to find out one of the countrys largest parts suppliers can't get their chit together. :nonono:

read post number 3:D:p
 
dumb question

when you were changing parts over,did anyone touch the timing chain? setting up a modular is tricky cause most dont understand copper links and lef/right....ive seen acouple of lets say patched mechanics put them together wrong and be off on cam timing..