Do current so called "cold air intakes" really give any power?
- Thread starter svtash
- Start date
-
Sponsors (?)
I will find out soon myself. I have a "generic" out of the box tune on my Xcal2 and a K&N oem replacement filter on my new '05 GT and it was only .2 slower than my friend's with a dyno tune, steeda CAI, and underdrive pulleys.
I am getting the Steeda kit and a dyno tune just because I bought a Steeda from a friend for $150
I am getting the Steeda kit and a dyno tune just because I bought a Steeda from a friend for $150
sunil6784
Member
nothing 
im a partner at murillo motorsports ..
and your et means nothing to many variables driver skill.. traction from extra power or lack of it etc
RWHP doesnt LIE et does its plenty possible fo ra lower rwhp car to have a better et then a higher one due to driver skill.
and that said 2 tenths is easily 15-20 rwhp if all else was totaly equal on the two cars etc though.
what was the mphs on them
im a partner at murillo motorsports ..and your et means nothing to many variables driver skill.. traction from extra power or lack of it etc
RWHP doesnt LIE et does its plenty possible fo ra lower rwhp car to have a better et then a higher one due to driver skill.
and that said 2 tenths is easily 15-20 rwhp if all else was totaly equal on the two cars etc though.
what was the mphs on them
1fastz said:nothing
and your et means nothing to many variables driver skill.. traction from extra power or lack of it etc
RWHP doesnt LIE et does its plenty possible fo ra lower rwhp car to have a better et then a higher one due to driver skill.
and that said 2 tenths is easily 15-20 rwhp if all else was totaly equal on the two cars etc though.
what was the mphs on them
In my case... 100 vs. 103
sunil6784 said:
Using one of the handheld tuners such as SCT or Diablo, you can change your tunes as often as you like.... Just either make the changes on your tune using your home computer , upload the modified tune to your tuner and reflash the cars ECU. Or, using the tuner SCT 2 / Diablo, change the tune while connected to the ECU.
For really dialing it in you need to be on the Dyno and have the A/F monitored. $75.00 an hour around here.
Owner1 said:
Just to give you an idea I was at the track today and these are my results on stock tires.
Stock intake and stock tune 2.094 60ft. 13.757 @ 102.630 mph.
Stock intake and Diablo 93 tune 2.041 60ft. 13.535 @ 104.577 mph.
C&L and Diablo 93 octane tune 1.954 60ft. 13.274 @ 107.453 mph.
On drag radials I ran a 13.053 @ 101.018 on the brakes.
I was trying not to break out since I was bracket racing .
Motorhead6T5 said:Naw don't think so. I don't think I would be any faster with a CAI. Things that would make me faster is a o/r pipe,and or gears. Track numbers don't lie
You're right track numbers don't lie.
All I have are a C&L Intake and a Diablosport Predator as far as performance mods and I'm quicker than you. I can email you my slips if you like.
Just to give you an idea I was at the track today and these are my results on stock tires.
Stock intake and stock tune 2.094 60ft. 13.757 @ 102.630 mph.
Stock intake and Diablo tune 2.041 60ft. 13.535 @ 104.577 mph.
C&L and Diablo 93 octane tune 1.954 60ft. 13.274 @ 107.453 mph.
On drag radials I ran a 13.053 @ 101.018 on the brakes.
I was trying not to break out since I was bracket racing .
Motorhead6T5
New Member
You are running on a different track then me. I know a guy that ran a 13.0 at 108 in a stock mach 1,he wouldn't go that fast at my track though. I've seen guys at my track trap 102-104 with a intake and tune on the 05's. So come to my track and run those times,then I will believe. Also you wouldn't cut a 1.9 60' on stock tires at my track if your life depended on it.thump_rrr said:
Anyways I really don't care,its my opinion that cai as a whole are a scam.And thats how my opinion will stay until I see it at the same track same day as me. Maybe you are a better driver than me,maybe you power shift
Their are so many variables comparing different cars, on different tracks, with different drivers. I might buy one someday,but their are other things I would want to buy first. Someday when some guy is tearing up the track running better times than me,maybe it will be insentive for me to buy,until that day happens, it seems like a waste of money to me. Power isn't my problem right now anyways,60 ft's are.
Motorhead6T5
New Member
...also,you are trapping higher than most guys with JLT intakes,and I've heard claims that the JLT has made 10 more hp than the C&L on the dyno. So who you gonna believe? I believe what I see at the track. And you are trapping pretty high for your mods,alot of guys are trapping and running your times with gears,headers,u/d's etc.So me thinks you got a fast track your running on. That or you drive like that Smith guy.
Check out my new 05' GT www.TunableInduction.com system.
I've designed it to flow the most air possible for stock and future mods with a 95mm rotatable meter / custom molded 9" dual-cone lifetime Green filter / Carbon Fiber TB pipe / Polycarbonate full heat shield.
The big difference is in the weight (5 lbs. total system) and the STAY-COOL induction temperature.
I use only the highest tech carbon fiber / polycarbonate plastics.
We've all seen how the performance DROPS LIKE A ROCK with the heat absorpton once the motor reaches operating temperature.
You can run this system ALL DAY, stop and open the hood, and it'll be COOL to the touch.
Don't go with something metal that's heavy and conducts heat.
They're available now without a tune and will be available soon with the SCT Xcal custom tune.
Also available here through Pro3i parts shopper. Lifetime warrantied system / filter.
toll free # 866-509-7453.
I've designed it to flow the most air possible for stock and future mods with a 95mm rotatable meter / custom molded 9" dual-cone lifetime Green filter / Carbon Fiber TB pipe / Polycarbonate full heat shield.
The big difference is in the weight (5 lbs. total system) and the STAY-COOL induction temperature.
I use only the highest tech carbon fiber / polycarbonate plastics.
We've all seen how the performance DROPS LIKE A ROCK with the heat absorpton once the motor reaches operating temperature.
You can run this system ALL DAY, stop and open the hood, and it'll be COOL to the touch.
Don't go with something metal that's heavy and conducts heat.
They're available now without a tune and will be available soon with the SCT Xcal custom tune.
Also available here through Pro3i parts shopper. Lifetime warrantied system / filter.
toll free # 866-509-7453.
NeedForSpeed
Founding Member
I've always heard nothing but bad things about them. Not bad necessarily but that they're not worth the money. But this is coming from people who are all about "off the line" and you're not really going to benefit much from one off the line, until you get in the higher speeds
SixFivePony
Founding Member
I can't believe prices for parts on 05s.
Do people think these are Vettes or something?
I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay 600 dollars for a short ram intake and a handheld tuner. That's just ridiculous IMHO.
I lucked out and got a deal on my Bassani axleback, 375 bucks shipped to me, but I find it literally insane that 600+ is the price for an axleback system that basically consists of mufflers and tips.
/rant
I like that CF intake though
Do people think these are Vettes or something?
I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay 600 dollars for a short ram intake and a handheld tuner. That's just ridiculous IMHO.
I lucked out and got a deal on my Bassani axleback, 375 bucks shipped to me, but I find it literally insane that 600+ is the price for an axleback system that basically consists of mufflers and tips.
/rant
I like that CF intake though
That's a valid point about the 'off the line' performance.
I've always had excellent customer feedback about my inner fender systems with 'off the line' performance since the filter is placed 'down' in the inner fender and benefits from the heated engine air being above and blocked off from the filter.
The second the Mustangs'in motion the filter is breathing unobstructed, unheated outside air with instantaneously better throttle response translating into quicker hole shots.
When they released the 05's and upon analyzing the first R&D with the available space and the design engineering I realized that the 'inner fender' setup was out.
The way to do the 05' was apparant. Block off the corner of the engine compartment with a system that wouldn't heat up and A-B the inherent restrictiveness of the factory setup.
When the 05' CAI Shootout article in 50 mag publishes next month you'll see just how restrictive the factory setup is.
But eliminating the factory restriction is just part of the formula.
You have to insulate the intake charge and the Carbon fiber / polycarbonate plastics I use do this in spades. Factory and aftermarket companies using the injection molded plastic are missing the boat. Injected molded plastics are usually thinner than 1/8". They're great for mass production since you can drop them in a box send them to the customer and tell them their intake charge is well insulated.
There is HUGE difference with insulating the intake charge with 1/4" thick plastic and then adding Carbon Fiber layering to this. The 3/8" thickness of a plastic composite Carbon Fiber (real carbon fiber, not the 'LOOK' carbon fiber)
TB pipe will insulate FAR BETTER than cheap injected molded plastic.
Ditto for my polycarbonate heat shield. My shield is 1/8" thick but will insulate to 270 degrees compared to 1/4" thick ABS @ much lower insulating temps. The thin injected molded competitor shields can advertise that there is a plastic heat barrier but the difference in peformance with Polycarbonate is substantial.
Conical filters breathe MUCH more efficiently with an open airflow radius around the filter, NOT ENCLOSED in an airbox. This defeats the conical breathing design. A panel filter ONLY benefits from an enclosed airbox.
One of my recent 05' GT customers related that he took the GT on a road trip after installing the system and it stayed VERY COOL continually after the motor had reached operating temps for an extended interval.
This customer opted for my system with his forthcoming Saleen Blower install being that the system includes the 95mm meter and that the meter is also rotatable for the dyno testing / blower install.
If the sensor positioning isn't on the 'sweet spot' with it being non-rotatable you'll never know it!!
It takes less than a minute to test the sensor positioning affects during a dyno session.
The system stays cool, offers total versatility with dyno tuning, and the filter will breathe unobstructed 360 degree airflow and through the end of the filter with the Mustang 'in motion' and the cooler outside air coming in through the front corner of the engine compartment. The polycarbonate shield 'seats' into the hood blanket to block off the area but not obstructiing filter flow.
If 'off the line response' isn't changed the substantial rwhp gains and the greater CFM flow going from 80mm to 95mm, with tunability, will put a BIG SMILE on your face as you pull a couple more car lengths through the trap over the guy next to you in the stock GT.
I've always had excellent customer feedback about my inner fender systems with 'off the line' performance since the filter is placed 'down' in the inner fender and benefits from the heated engine air being above and blocked off from the filter.
The second the Mustangs'in motion the filter is breathing unobstructed, unheated outside air with instantaneously better throttle response translating into quicker hole shots.
When they released the 05's and upon analyzing the first R&D with the available space and the design engineering I realized that the 'inner fender' setup was out.
The way to do the 05' was apparant. Block off the corner of the engine compartment with a system that wouldn't heat up and A-B the inherent restrictiveness of the factory setup.
When the 05' CAI Shootout article in 50 mag publishes next month you'll see just how restrictive the factory setup is.
But eliminating the factory restriction is just part of the formula.
You have to insulate the intake charge and the Carbon fiber / polycarbonate plastics I use do this in spades. Factory and aftermarket companies using the injection molded plastic are missing the boat. Injected molded plastics are usually thinner than 1/8". They're great for mass production since you can drop them in a box send them to the customer and tell them their intake charge is well insulated.
There is HUGE difference with insulating the intake charge with 1/4" thick plastic and then adding Carbon Fiber layering to this. The 3/8" thickness of a plastic composite Carbon Fiber (real carbon fiber, not the 'LOOK' carbon fiber)
TB pipe will insulate FAR BETTER than cheap injected molded plastic.
Ditto for my polycarbonate heat shield. My shield is 1/8" thick but will insulate to 270 degrees compared to 1/4" thick ABS @ much lower insulating temps. The thin injected molded competitor shields can advertise that there is a plastic heat barrier but the difference in peformance with Polycarbonate is substantial.
Conical filters breathe MUCH more efficiently with an open airflow radius around the filter, NOT ENCLOSED in an airbox. This defeats the conical breathing design. A panel filter ONLY benefits from an enclosed airbox.
One of my recent 05' GT customers related that he took the GT on a road trip after installing the system and it stayed VERY COOL continually after the motor had reached operating temps for an extended interval.
This customer opted for my system with his forthcoming Saleen Blower install being that the system includes the 95mm meter and that the meter is also rotatable for the dyno testing / blower install.
If the sensor positioning isn't on the 'sweet spot' with it being non-rotatable you'll never know it!!
It takes less than a minute to test the sensor positioning affects during a dyno session.
The system stays cool, offers total versatility with dyno tuning, and the filter will breathe unobstructed 360 degree airflow and through the end of the filter with the Mustang 'in motion' and the cooler outside air coming in through the front corner of the engine compartment. The polycarbonate shield 'seats' into the hood blanket to block off the area but not obstructiing filter flow.
If 'off the line response' isn't changed the substantial rwhp gains and the greater CFM flow going from 80mm to 95mm, with tunability, will put a BIG SMILE on your face as you pull a couple more car lengths through the trap over the guy next to you in the stock GT.
lol boy are you trying to sell something.
when the vehicle is moving the air in that corner is plenty cool the diference between a cold air that blocks off the corner from the engine heat with a shield and actualy putting the filter in the inner fender will be miniscule.
the insulating properties of the shiled being used are almost a non issue as there is constant cold air flowing in and around that area on the 05 when its in motion i doubt you would detect a couple degrees diference in that corner between a thin plastic sheild and a insulated one with actual heat INSULATION on it
the only time there would be a diference would be prolonged very low speed idleing or driving.
and once you began moving and the air was flowing again it would again not mater.
it is not there to act as a HEAT shield but rather is there to catch all the incomign cold air and hold it in that corner so it can be sucked into the engine and keep the filter from back sucking hot air off the exhaust manifold.
any diference in horsepower production with cold air intakes on the curent mustang .. when you are comparing the ones with similar setups IE the blocked off corner and the conical filter can be prety much contributed to one or the other being better tuned harmonicly to the intake track and causeing a small ram type efect..
NOW this would change with any other changes made to your car so if say brand x in a dyno test worked best on a stone stock gt.
i gaurentee brand x will most likely NOT be the best on a gt with say imrc delete plates and a full exahust as the resonatn characteristics of the intack track has now changed.
but you are talking a diference of a couple horsepower here.
Go with wichever one looks best to you and you can easily get ..
the only real advantage any of them have over another is the ones that have clockable seperate mass airs will alow for some sligth adjustability for the best driveability.
when the vehicle is moving the air in that corner is plenty cool the diference between a cold air that blocks off the corner from the engine heat with a shield and actualy putting the filter in the inner fender will be miniscule.
the insulating properties of the shiled being used are almost a non issue as there is constant cold air flowing in and around that area on the 05 when its in motion i doubt you would detect a couple degrees diference in that corner between a thin plastic sheild and a insulated one with actual heat INSULATION on it
the only time there would be a diference would be prolonged very low speed idleing or driving.
and once you began moving and the air was flowing again it would again not mater.
it is not there to act as a HEAT shield but rather is there to catch all the incomign cold air and hold it in that corner so it can be sucked into the engine and keep the filter from back sucking hot air off the exhaust manifold.
any diference in horsepower production with cold air intakes on the curent mustang .. when you are comparing the ones with similar setups IE the blocked off corner and the conical filter can be prety much contributed to one or the other being better tuned harmonicly to the intake track and causeing a small ram type efect..
NOW this would change with any other changes made to your car so if say brand x in a dyno test worked best on a stone stock gt.
i gaurentee brand x will most likely NOT be the best on a gt with say imrc delete plates and a full exahust as the resonatn characteristics of the intack track has now changed.
but you are talking a diference of a couple horsepower here.
Go with wichever one looks best to you and you can easily get ..
the only real advantage any of them have over another is the ones that have clockable seperate mass airs will alow for some sligth adjustability for the best driveability.
Heat will build up in traffic and staging at the track and the better the barrier the more isolated the filter and the cooler the intake charge.
The magazine dyno sessions and other dyno operators I deal with will all tell you the same thing with the 05' GT: There is a sizable hp loss just between pulls in the same dyno session and this is with the hood open and dyno cell cooling fan blowing the whole time as the heat builds up in a given intake being tested. A design implimenting a better insulated intake charge will result in bigger 'retainable' performance gains. Metal conducts heat but plastic systems are also not created equal.
With all the different designs / materials available it's important to know the differences that will retain the performance gains in everyday driving.
I agree with you that other induction modifications can change advantages with resonance etc., but was just comparing CAIs.
And to answer the thread question that 'yes there are sizable, retainable, power gains with a CAI'.
The nice thing about the new 05' GT motor is just how much 'bigger the bang for the buck' is with a well designed CAI. I'd only seen +25 hp gains on blower motors up until the 05' GT, never gains this big on naturally aspirated motors.
The magazine dyno sessions and other dyno operators I deal with will all tell you the same thing with the 05' GT: There is a sizable hp loss just between pulls in the same dyno session and this is with the hood open and dyno cell cooling fan blowing the whole time as the heat builds up in a given intake being tested. A design implimenting a better insulated intake charge will result in bigger 'retainable' performance gains. Metal conducts heat but plastic systems are also not created equal.
With all the different designs / materials available it's important to know the differences that will retain the performance gains in everyday driving.
I agree with you that other induction modifications can change advantages with resonance etc., but was just comparing CAIs.
And to answer the thread question that 'yes there are sizable, retainable, power gains with a CAI'.
The nice thing about the new 05' GT motor is just how much 'bigger the bang for the buck' is with a well designed CAI. I'd only seen +25 hp gains on blower motors up until the 05' GT, never gains this big on naturally aspirated motors.
ONCE the vehicle has reached NORMAL operating temperature there will be almost NO difference
if you allow the vehicle to COOL and sit then YES these vehicles gain a decent amount from a cool down period
HOWEVER when being driven there would be less then a 5 horse dif between the car having sat and idled for 15 minits vs the car just having reached operating temperature
AND i have NEVER had a sizable loss because only people who want to ARTIFICIALY INFLAT THE NUMBERS FOR THIER PRODUCT do not bring the car to full operating temperature before doing a pull.
the ONLY reason not to is to 1 make your product look good and say look how much more power we made
or
2 just to see how much benifit a long cool down between rounds would have for a pure drag car.
dyno pulls should all be made at operational temperature with a fully warmed up engine to duplicate what the engine will actualy see on the road.
and in order for that heat shield to make any significant kind of diference to the air being pulled in to the motor you would have to sit still for a VERY VERY VERY long time
dyno cells DO NOT put fans on the motor to cool the engine for more power they do it becuase there is NO airflow across the radiator when stationary and the engine needs that airflow for proper cooling when the engine is seeing full throttle loads and NO air flow across it it WILL over heat without any kind of fan your radiator fan is NOT enough.
the diference in intake temperature with a fully insulated intake pipe vs a non insulated pipe is ONLY a couple degrees.
I personaly tested this on my race car with a turbo.. the non insulated steel pipe wich runs RIGH OVER one of the turbo headers wich are far far far far hoter then any normal engine compartment header is .. vs wraping it with 1/2 inch of heat reflecting insulation resulted in less then 3 degree change in actual intake air temps.
and this was on aproximately 2 and a half feet of tubeing.
on a 05 up mustang when given the short 8-10 inche distance the air travels through that tube and the velocity it is traveling at you would exspect even a far less increase/decrease in air temps.
anyone who claims 25 horse just for the cold air is ALSO A LIAR and trying to sell parts
a good half of that comes from the custom tune ..
the reason these cars gain so much from the cold air kits is the factory tune is far off and very rich
real world people who are not trying to sell a PART,
like myself and murillo motor sports who realy care about the customer wil tell the customer the truth.
the cold air is only worth around 12 horsepower out of the 25 or so they all claim the rest comes from the TUNE that is REQUIRED to be done with the cold air.
if you have done JUST a tune on your STOCK box with a k and n filter you will only gain 10-14 horsepower by adding a cold air and retuning..
im not trying to sell parts im trying to educate the customer and give them real world knowledge and facts isntead of advertisement hype.
if you allow the vehicle to COOL and sit then YES these vehicles gain a decent amount from a cool down period
HOWEVER when being driven there would be less then a 5 horse dif between the car having sat and idled for 15 minits vs the car just having reached operating temperature
AND i have NEVER had a sizable loss because only people who want to ARTIFICIALY INFLAT THE NUMBERS FOR THIER PRODUCT do not bring the car to full operating temperature before doing a pull.
the ONLY reason not to is to 1 make your product look good and say look how much more power we made
or
2 just to see how much benifit a long cool down between rounds would have for a pure drag car.
dyno pulls should all be made at operational temperature with a fully warmed up engine to duplicate what the engine will actualy see on the road.
and in order for that heat shield to make any significant kind of diference to the air being pulled in to the motor you would have to sit still for a VERY VERY VERY long time
dyno cells DO NOT put fans on the motor to cool the engine for more power they do it becuase there is NO airflow across the radiator when stationary and the engine needs that airflow for proper cooling when the engine is seeing full throttle loads and NO air flow across it it WILL over heat without any kind of fan your radiator fan is NOT enough.
the diference in intake temperature with a fully insulated intake pipe vs a non insulated pipe is ONLY a couple degrees.
I personaly tested this on my race car with a turbo.. the non insulated steel pipe wich runs RIGH OVER one of the turbo headers wich are far far far far hoter then any normal engine compartment header is .. vs wraping it with 1/2 inch of heat reflecting insulation resulted in less then 3 degree change in actual intake air temps.
and this was on aproximately 2 and a half feet of tubeing.
on a 05 up mustang when given the short 8-10 inche distance the air travels through that tube and the velocity it is traveling at you would exspect even a far less increase/decrease in air temps.
anyone who claims 25 horse just for the cold air is ALSO A LIAR and trying to sell parts
a good half of that comes from the custom tune ..
the reason these cars gain so much from the cold air kits is the factory tune is far off and very rich
real world people who are not trying to sell a PART,
like myself and murillo motor sports who realy care about the customer wil tell the customer the truth.
the cold air is only worth around 12 horsepower out of the 25 or so they all claim the rest comes from the TUNE that is REQUIRED to be done with the cold air.
if you have done JUST a tune on your STOCK box with a k and n filter you will only gain 10-14 horsepower by adding a cold air and retuning..
im not trying to sell parts im trying to educate the customer and give them real world knowledge and facts isntead of advertisement hype.
