Dyno'd tuned or other option?

Alright, my cobra is getting a new motor this weekend, 306, with GT-40P heads, x303 cam, but the rest is staying the same. When the PO had the S/C installed, it was never tuned, and i was never happy with the way it ran. Do, i have to get it dyno'd tuned, or is there another option, other than tuning it myself, as i dont really have the knowledge required.
 
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A blown H/C/I 5.0 is gonna be in SERIOUS need of some tuning! I'm assuming you have some bigger injectors right, and not a cheap FMU? If you don't want to do the self-tuning route, a dyno tune is really the only route to go with that.
 
FYI .... I don't want to steer you in a direction you don't wanna go .... but I have seen people in the past selling self-tuning equipment, such as the TwEECer, in classified sections on various forums. You can get them alot cheaper than new. Also, I believe there are websites that break everything down for you, as well as all the "helpful" self-tuners on sites such as this one. I wouldn't just weed out self-tuning just because of your knowledge. You have to start somewhere. I'm going to have to start learning here soon myself, lol.
 
Here are two things I think are key for what you are trying to do.

You or a Pro can't tune with your maf/inj's as they are too small :nono:

Money don't have anything to do with this issue.

No matter which way you tune ... you gotta part with the money
IF
you wanna do it right for max power
AND
near perfect drivability

Please understand me here ... not tryin to be a hard azz :D
I do understand about the money all too well :bang:

For now ... you got two options to tune your combo .................

I'll give you the best (mo money) first
AND
the second best (less money) but if I was you ..................
I'd only use that method until you can move to the other method.

1 Maf of sufficient size to handle airflow needs of a blown combo.
Something like a Lightning maf, Granatelli, ProM 77/80 with 42lb cal, etc.
42lb inj will work nicely with your plans.
At least 255 intank pump will be needed to push enough fuel.
A custom tune by you or a Pro

2 Inj's first
Use a fmu (mechannical tuning) to elevate fuel pressure which makes your 24's act larger.

Now for the maf ... not as simple as the inj's :(
For a maf, you or may not be able to use the maf you now got.
As has been said above, things don't match like they should
HOWEVER
Even if you got a maf caled for 19's that would not work
cause
your blown combo would peg that baby maf in a heart-beat :rlaugh:
Heck, you very well could peg a 24 and maybe a 36lb caled maf :D

Moving to a different subject about your concerns ....................

If you wanna learn to self tune ...................

You could not have started with a more challenging way to learn.
Blown combos are way less forgiving of mistakes than NA.
Not saying you can't do it.
Just more difficult.

Hope this helps you in some way :shrug:

At least you now got some more stuff to think about :rlaugh:

Grady
 
final5-0 said:
Here are two things I think are key for what you are trying to do.

You or a Pro can't tune with your maf/inj's as they are too small :nono:

Money don't have anything to do with this issue.

No matter which way you tune ... you gotta part with the money
IF
you wanna do it right for max power
AND
near perfect drivability

Please understand me here ... not tryin to be a hard azz :D
I do understand about the money all too well :bang:

For now ... you got two options to tune your combo .................

I'll give you the best (mo money) first
AND
the second best (less money) but if I was you ..................
I'd only use that method until you can move to the other method.

1 Maf of sufficient size to handle airflow needs of a blown combo.
Something like a Lightning maf, Granatelli, ProM 77/80 with 42lb cal, etc.
42lb inj will work nicely with your plans.
At least 255 intank pump will be needed to push enough fuel.
A custom tune by you or a Pro

2 Inj's first
Use a fmu (mechannical tuning) to elevate fuel pressure which makes your 24's act larger.

Now for the maf ... not as simple as the inj's :(
For a maf, you or may not be able to use the maf you now got.
As has been said above, things don't match like they should
HOWEVER
Even if you got a maf caled for 19's that would not work
cause
your blown combo would peg that baby maf in a heart-beat :rlaugh:
Heck, you very well could peg a 24 and maybe a 36lb caled maf :D

Moving to a different subject about your concerns ....................

If you wanna learn to self tune ...................

You could not have started with a more challenging way to learn.
Blown combos are way less forgiving of mistakes than NA.
Not saying you can't do it.
Just more difficult.

Hope this helps you in some way :shrug:

At least you now got some more stuff to think about :rlaugh:

Grady

First, money isnt a big issue. I was trying to avoid a dyno tune if i could, because i dont have the time to load my car on a trailer, and take it to the nearest shop i know of(portland, almost 3 hours with a trailer) Because of my work this would have to be a saturday as it is. I didnt pick this set of inj's or MAF, they were on the motor when i bought them. I did however drive the car with the other set of 24's and stock maf and tb for about 10K miles before i parked it, to put the new motor in it. I am not looking for max power, i dont race the car, its my DD. I would have never bought the blower, the only reason i have it, is because it came with the car i bought. I have an in tank pump(in the sig) that flows 255LPH. From my reading and understanding, cobra's have there own specific MAF and ECM, because they come stock with 24's, am i wrong in this understanding? That is why i didnt think the MAF would be a problem. I really dont have any urge to learn to self tune, i didnt want to spend the money there, because i didnt want to buy something i would never use.
 
There's something you didn't take into consideration. The P heads aren't much different in flow characteristics to the stock Cobra heads (GT-40). The E303 was specifically tuned for that combination and I think you would be happier with the E-Cam in this circumstance as the X was designed for a more aggressive head, the X head. It will also have rougher idling characteristics than the E cam. You will probably see some gain in the top end, but do to the design of the heads, there's a good chance you could see a drop in part throttle driving power as well as low-end power.

That said, tune it but check out a tuner MAF (which isn't designed to work with a specific computer but for custom tuning to any combination) such as is currently offered by C&L: www.cnlperformance.com

I believe that MAF is offered in 76mm which is definitely big enough for your application and will provide better metering than a larger MAF.

There are other companies, such as Pro-Flow, that provide a suitable MAF, but they changed owners some time ago and I forgot the site address. They are tuneable to specific applications if need be.

As far as the 24 lb injectors, they are suitable to a maximum of a 400 horse application, the 30s can be tuned for up to 500, 36 to 600 and 42 to 700.

Some of the running gremlins you may have run into are because the 94-95 computers aren't as capable as some of the ealier computers to deal with airflow change and the idle is a bit too eratic for the computer so to get the motor to be more drivable, it will need to be recalibrated. If you go with the X cam, it will only get worse. An in-between would be the F-cam which was designed for the standard GT-40 heads...specifically in the Lightening, but the flow characteristics will be more optimized.

Ryan

Cobra_Dusten said:
Alright, my cobra is getting a new motor this weekend, 306, with GT-40P heads, x303 cam, but the rest is staying the same. When the PO had the S/C installed, it was never tuned, and i was never happy with the way it ran. Do, i have to get it dyno'd tuned, or is there another option, other than tuning it myself, as i dont really have the knowledge required.
 
hrspwrjunkie said:
There's something you didn't take into consideration. The P heads aren't much different in flow characteristics to the stock Cobra heads (GT-40). The E303 was specifically tuned for that combination and I think you would be happier with the E-Cam in this circumstance as the X was designed for a more aggressive head, the X head. It will also have rougher idling characteristics than the E cam. You will probably see some gain in the top end, but do to the design of the heads, there's a good chance you could see a drop in part throttle driving power as well as low-end power.

That said, tune it but check out a tuner MAF (which isn't designed to work with a specific computer but for custom tuning to any combination) such as is currently offered by C&L: www.cnlperformance.com

I believe that MAF is offered in 76mm which is definitely big enough for your application and will provide better metering than a larger MAF.

There are other companies, such as Pro-Flow, that provide a suitable MAF, but they changed owners some time ago and I forgot the site address. They are tuneable to specific applications if need be.

As far as the 24 lb injectors, they are suitable to a maximum of a 400 horse application, the 30s can be tuned for up to 500, 36 to 600 and 42 to 700.

Some of the running gremlins you may have run into are because the 94-95 computers aren't as capable as some of the ealier computers to deal with airflow change and the idle is a bit too eratic for the computer so to get the motor to be more drivable, it will need to be recalibrated. If you go with the X cam, it will only get worse. An in-between would be the F-cam which was designed for the standard GT-40 heads...specifically in the Lightening, but the flow characteristics will be more optimized.

Ryan

I appreciate the info. I was considering keeping the E cam, but my father thought the x cam would be a better deal. I will probably do that then. So, from what everyone says, i need to toss my maf, and get a different one? Is this correct? I dont think i am going to change out injectors, i was happy with my past drivability, and dont want to lose that due to bigger injectors and bigger cam. Like i said, ultimate HP isnt my goal, i went that route with my diesel last time, and in the end, lost out on drivability.
 
Well you won't have any more horsepower then you do now, unless you have a much more efficiant bottom end. IE, more quench causing more swirl and cleaner burn or less ring blow-by. The only problem with the injectors may be if you have an engine producing more power than the injectors are currently supplying fuel for, you will run into a lean problem and can potentially ruin the motor, so moving to larger injectors may be necessary for survival of the engine. But I would have the combo tuned to make sure you aren't running lean, regardless (and to extract every bit of power and drivability...you might as well get everything you can from what you paid for). But, if you are willing to have the motor tuned and it doesn't exceed 400 horses, the 24 lb injectors will be fine.

As far as the Granatelli MAF goes...I don't know if it can be tuned by a tuner...if it can you will need the transfer functions. Often times "tuned" MAFs aren't the easiest to tune with and are better left for plug-and-play applications.

Ryan

Cobra_Dusten said:
I appreciate the info. I was considering keeping the E cam, but my father thought the x cam would be a better deal. I will probably do that then. So, from what everyone says, i need to toss my maf, and get a different one? Is this correct? I dont think i am going to change out injectors, i was happy with my past drivability, and dont want to lose that due to bigger injectors and bigger cam. Like i said, ultimate HP isnt my goal, i went that route with my diesel last time, and in the end, lost out on drivability.
 
the p heads are slightly better than the gt-40's on it. here is the deal, i bought the engine from a friend, he bought it, never used it. As stated before, i am only keepin the s/c because i have it. I am not looking to make anymore power than in the dyno number in my sig. I was very happy with that power, the only reason for the new motor, is the other motor is stock, stock heads, different cam, stock intake, stock bottom end. It was getting tired. I will call krazy concepts and see if they can tune the maf that is on the car.
 
That sounds like a very reasonable direction to go.

Richard Holdner, in a book titled 5.0L Ford Dyno Tests (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=a02vedXCwE&isbn=1884089453&itm=1) put together a tested combination that was a little more aggressive than yours in the 94-95 chassis and only reached 400 horses, so I think you've made a good call on your combination. It should be stout and fun.

Ryan

Cobra_Dusten said:
Alright, i got off the phone with Krazy Koncepts. they think that i will okay with my 24's for what i want, that i need to run the E cam, and that i should sell my MAF and get a C&L, so they can tune it.