Dyno'd tuned or other option?

[Cobra_Dusten]

when you were saying 400 hp, is that flywheel, or wheel(in respect to the 24#)

 

[final5-0]

First, money isnt a big issue. I was trying to avoid a dyno tune if i could, because i dont have the time to load my car on a trailer, and take it to the nearest shop i know of(portland, almost 3 hours with a trailer) Because of my work this would have to be a saturday as it is.

I can understand about trying to avoid a dyno tune.

The chance of you having BEST power AND drivability on a blown combo without a tune is pretty slim.

As was talked about above ... the fmu thing can be used but if anything goes wrong .................
you have lost a head gasket at least and maybe motor damage.

From my reading and understanding, cobra's have there own specific MAF and ECM, because they come stock with 24's, am i wrong in this understanding?

1 The GT uses 19's and the Cobra uses 24's
2 The GT and Cobra use the very same maf
3 The GT and Cobra use different pcm's

Lets deal with 3 first

The pcm you now got is fine and can be tuned just as good as any other pcm. The is no need to go to a different one.

Now for 1

19's or 24's ... makes no difference ... They are too small
UNLESS
you use a fmu and run mega elevated pressures

You do what you think is best but if you'll look on the power adder forums you'll find tons of peeps who moved away from the fmu thing for a reason.

As for 24's supporting 400 hp ..........................
Consider these thoughts about that kind of reasoning

400 fwhp is only around 330-340 rwhp
You got a blower pulling down more of that hp as well
You also gotta remember that fuel is needed to cool the charge a bit in a blown combo which means more fuel still

24's are too small for what you want to do

That is why i didnt think the MAF would be a problem.

Lets move on to 2

The maf takes the air that passes through it and converts it to a voltage.
The GT or Cobra will not pass enough air to cause a prob when stock.
Even with a few mods the stock maf is gonna be just fine.

Now with what you are tryin to do ...............................
Your blower is gonna cram way more air past the maf than it knows what to do with. The only thing it can do is tell the pcm it is maxed out. This happening is most likely gonna happen at about 50 to 75% of your rpm range.
You then will go lean
OR
maybe you have heard peeps talk about "pegging the maf"

You really don't wanna he able to tell peeps you did that ... even more so with a blown combo. Head gaskets, pistons, or rings may be damaged when that happens

I really dont have any urge to learn to self tune, i didnt want to spend the money there, because i didnt want to buy something i would never use.

I can totally understand where you are coming from

I'm not trying say a custom tune is a must have

I am trying to say many other blown peeps have tried fmu's, C&L mafs or other mafs for that matter that are too small and finally just got sick & tired of the whole mechanical method of tuning and went with a chip burned by a Pro.

Good luck with which ever way you decided to go

Grady

 

[final5-0]

Alright, i got off the phone with Krazy Koncepts. they think that i will okay with my 24's for what i want, that i need to run the E cam, and that i should sell my MAF and get a C&L, so they can tune it.

If these guys raise the fuel pressure enough .................
I can see how you could get by with 24's

What I'm interested in seeing is how they are gonna get around you moving more air than that C&L is setup with by using the 24lb inj sample tube

Hope it all works out well for you and keep us updated

Grady

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

That's flywheel horses.

In your sig, with 333 rear wheel horses, that works out to just about 391 flywheel horses.

Ryan

when you were saying 400 hp, is that flywheel, or wheel(in respect to the 24#)

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

If the combo is tuned correctly, it shouldn't require fuel to "cool the charge" that will just cause a rich condition. A properly tuned engine should have a proper flame front in the cylinders that burns the charge accurately. From what I have seen and experienced, most knowledgable engine tuners will state that this is only a Bandaid for a poorly set-up combination.

However, that being said, Ford does use the 19 lb injector in the stock 225 horse H.O. engine and that injector is good for between 300 and 320 horses...and they run that engine a bit rich which is why it responds so well to exhaust and intake mods in stock trim to produce increased power output. The Cobra engine doesn't put out much more than an H.O. and still they put 24 lb injectors in it for an added safety margin. It might be smartly added insurance to use 30 lbers in this combo to make sure there is enough fuel. Of course, as I stated in the last paragraph, most knowledgable engine tuners state that running rich is a bandaid for a poorly set-up combination...

Ryan

I can understand about trying to avoid a dyno tune.

The chance of you having BEST power AND drivability on a blown combo without a tune is pretty slim.

As was talked about above ... the fmu thing can be used but if anything goes wrong .................
you have lost a head gasket at least and maybe motor damage.



1 The GT uses 19's and the Cobra uses 24's
2 The GT and Cobra use the very same maf
3 The GT and Cobra use different pcm's

Lets deal with 3 first

The pcm you now got is fine and can be tuned just as good as any other pcm. The is no need to go to a different one.

Now for 1

19's or 24's ... makes no difference ... They are too small
UNLESS
you use a fmu and run mega elevated pressures

You do what you think is best but if you'll look on the power adder forums you'll find tons of peeps who moved away from the fmu thing for a reason.

As for 24's supporting 400 hp ..........................
Consider these thoughts about that kind of reasoning

400 fwhp is only around 330-340 rwhp
You got a blower pulling down more of that hp as well
You also gotta remember that fuel is needed to cool the charge a bit in a blown combo which means more fuel still

24's are too small for what you want to do



Lets move on to 2

The maf takes the air that passes through it and converts it to a voltage.
The GT or Cobra will not pass enough air to cause a prob when stock.
Even with a few mods the stock maf is gonna be just fine.

Now with what you are tryin to do ...............................
Your blower is gonna cram way more air past the maf than it knows what to do with. The only thing it can do is tell the pcm it is maxed out. This happening is most likely gonna happen at about 50 to 75% of your rpm range.
You then will go lean
OR
maybe you have heard peeps talk about "pegging the maf"

You really don't wanna he able to tell peeps you did that ... even more so with a blown combo. Head gaskets, pistons, or rings may be damaged when that happens



I can totally understand where you are coming from

I'm not trying say a custom tune is a must have

I am trying to say many other blown peeps have tried fmu's, C&L mafs or other mafs for that matter that are too small and finally just got sick & tired of the whole mechanical method of tuning and went with a chip burned by a Pro.

Good luck with which ever way you decided to go

Grady

 

[Cobra_Dusten]

I am going to run my 24's for now. If i run into drivability problems, or KK thinks i need bigger when they start tuning i will swap them out then. KK has a stellar reputation, and i trust what they say

 

[final5-0]

However, that being said, Ford does use the 19 lb injector in the stock 225 horse H.O. engine and that injector is good for between 300 and 320 horses...and they run that engine a bit rich which is why it responds so well to exhaust and intake mods in stock trim to produce increased power output. The Cobra engine doesn't put out much more than an H.O. and still they put 24 lb injectors in it for an added safety margin. It might be smartly added insurance to use 30 lbers in this combo to make sure there is enough fuel. Of course, as I stated in the last paragraph, most knowledgable engine tuners state that running rich is a bandaid for a poorly set-up combination...

Ryan

Hi Ryan

Lets talk about this a bit.

Using a 19lb inj for a 320 hp combo.
320fwhp x .85 (15% drive line loss) = 272rwhp

272rwhp is a mild NA Combo to say the least.

IMHO, it is about at that level I feel 19's are done at stock fuel pressure.

Why would 24's or even 30's support a Blown Combo?

Please share your more of your thoughts!

Grady

 

[Cobra_Dusten]

really, if you look at what he is saying, 24's, or better 30's, will fit my blown combo, and what i am looking for. 330 RWHP. If 24's are good for 400 hp, then with the power outputs i am looking for, they fit the bill, so to speak. Also, i am not running HUGE amounts of boost, so i dont think i would be seeing these huge 400hp number anyways, i only run 6#'s

 

[mricci]

I dont know the most about tuning, but i know a lot of people with supercharged h/c/i combos, and all of them use at least 42lb injectors, if your unsure i would bring it to a dyno so you will know if you lean out at all on top.