EEC tuning, tweecer rt, long tubes, 88 converting to maf

AnthonyR23

Member
Sep 8, 2006
661
0
16
Ontario
Hi, I am considering picking up a Tweecer RT tuner for my mustang. My mustang is still very much stock. I have been looking into mass air conversion kits and am interested in (CONVERSION KIT,MASS AIR 86/88 75mm (30 LB) BULLET) since I have an old eec for the speed density system I will need to replace the computer with a newer (89-93) computer (eec). I also have a hole in my header on the passenger side that is making a loud ticking noise. I am parking my car for the end of the season and will be working on it all winter in our garage. I plan on doing all of these upgrades at the same time. I plan on purchasing 1 5/8" Ceramac Coated mac headers with the 2.5" Collector and a high flow cat system. With the Tweecer RT apparently I can tune the computer to compensate for the movement of the oxygen sensors. I plan on purchasing the mil eliminator things for the engine light or something like that even though that may be unneccesarily with the Tweecer Rt. I am assuming that since I am tuning the computer for the long tubes I may regain some of the control over emissions and may have a chance of passing an emissions with a tunned eec. With the larger 75 mm meter and 75 mm throttle body that I would like to get I think I will be able to tune the eec with the tweecer for that aswell. I like trick flow's products and down the road would like to upgrade intake/heads/cam. The trick flow intakes have 75mm inlet diameter that is why I do not want to pay almost 600 for a mass air conversion kit that comes with a smaller stock mass air meter. I haven't read much about increasing the size of the injectors to 30 lbs but I assumed that I would be able to configure the eec to that setup with the tweecer rt. But in doing that I assume I will have to throw on a t rex fuel pump with bigger lines??? Not sure though! What I am trying to do is avoid having to buy the same parts twice. But being able to maintaning drivability before I actually upgrade the engine is a huge priority for me. Has anyone ever used a Tweecer RT. They are pricey units, I think I could pick one up for approx. 500. I have done alot of research but would love some input. I looked into the price for a basic mass air meter upgrade and the cost is very similiar to the upgreated version of the kit but the computer is not included so I would have to find that elsewhere (probably wreckers for 50 bucks). Any input would be awesome especially from people who have tried this unit themselves. Is it worth it? Seems like there is alot of benefits. Oh and does anyone know if it can be used on other cars/ or is it mustang specific? Thanks Anthony
I do all work myself.
Est. Cost:
500 headers
250 h pipe
500 tweecer rt
500 mass air conversion , includes everything other than comp
50 eec (computer)
400 injectors

overall approx. $2200ish
 
  • Sponsors(?)


vristang

10 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
4,751
27
109
43
Seattle
www.SeattleBlueOvals.com
AnthonyR23 said:
Hi, I am considering picking up a Tweecer RT tuner for my mustang. My mustang is still very much stock. I have been looking into mass air conversion kits and am interested in (CONVERSION KIT,MASS AIR 86/88 75mm (30 LB) BULLET) since I have an old eec for the speed density system I will need to replace the computer with a newer (89-93) computer (eec). I also have a hole in my header on the passenger side that is making a loud ticking noise. I am parking my car for the end of the season and will be working on it all winter in our garage. I plan on doing all of these upgrades at the same time. I plan on purchasing 1 5/8" Ceramac Coated mac headers with the 2.5" Collector and a high flow cat system. With the Tweecer RT apparently I can tune the computer to compensate for the movement of the oxygen sensors. I plan on purchasing the mil eliminator things for the engine light or something like that even though that may be unneccesarily with the Tweecer Rt. I am assuming that since I am tuning the computer for the long tubes I may regain some of the control over emissions and may have a chance of passing an emissions with a tunned eec. With the larger 75 mm meter and 75 mm throttle body that I would like to get I think I will be able to tune the eec with the tweecer for that aswell. I like trick flow's products and down the road would like to upgrade intake/heads/cam. The trick flow intakes have 75mm inlet diameter that is why I do not want to pay almost 600 for a mass air conversion kit that comes with a smaller stock mass air meter. I haven't read much about increasing the size of the injectors to 30 lbs but I assumed that I would be able to configure the eec to that setup with the tweecer rt. But in doing that I assume I will have to throw on a t rex fuel pump with bigger lines??? Not sure though! What I am trying to do is avoid having to buy the same parts twice. But being able to maintaning drivability before I actually upgrade the engine is a huge priority for me. Has anyone ever used a Tweecer RT. They are pricey units, I think I could pick one up for approx. 500. I have done alot of research but would love some input. I looked into the price for a basic mass air meter upgrade and the cost is very similiar to the upgreated version of the kit but the computer is not included so I would have to find that elsewhere (probably wreckers for 50 bucks). Any input would be awesome especially from people who have tried this unit themselves. Is it worth it? Seems like there is alot of benefits. Oh and does anyone know if it can be used on other cars/ or is it mustang specific? Thanks Anthony
I am very glad to have made the TwEECer RT purchase.

I assume the CEL eliminator kit you mention is for the EGR? If so, don't waste your money. Changing one setting in the tweecer will fix the problem.

Since you will be tuning the car with the tweecer there is no need to pick up any particular computer. Try to find one that is for a manual or auto, depending on what you have. Any other settings can be tuned.
Some to look for are the A9* series or the X3Z, but others should work as well.

The tweecer can adjust for the relocation of the O2's. The process seems fairly well documented.

Yes, you can tune for any MAF on the market. You can also configure the EEC for any injector size as well.

30lb injectors will not require a secondary pump. There are many folks running 42lb injectors with a 255lph pump and stock lines.
If running boost however, it may be needed.

The tweecer can be used on some other EEC-IV and newer Ford vehicles. The list of vehicles is fairly short however. Check the tweecer site for details.

Some other ideas are...
You may be able to find a Lightning MAF used somewhere. These were 80 or 90mm, and are very accurate.

The tweecer software can be downloaded free, as well as the "Getting Started Manual"
These are good to look over before making the purchase.
If you get frustrated with the complexity at this point then maybe another tuner would be a better choice. It is not that the tweecer is bad, it is just different than a PMS, or some of the other tuners on the market.

Check with the Tweecer website before making a computer purchase. There is a list of supported computers there.
Actually if you download CalEdit, the list of supported computers is there as well.

Take the MAF conversion as a separate project from tuning with the tweecer.
When you start using the tweecer it will be pretty confusing for a while. If you are trying to sort out mechanical and/or wiring issues from the MAF conversion during this time, you will get very frustrated.
Make sure the MAF conversion is done right then move into tuning.

In order to tune the AFR you must have a wideband O2. You can pick one of these up at Innovate for $200 or so.

I spent 550 on the tweecer, 350 for a used ebay laptop, and will buy a 200 WB O2 shortly.

Feel free to contact me if you have other questions,
jason
 

AnthonyR23

Member
Sep 8, 2006
661
0
16
Ontario
Hey thanks for the reply!!! My mustang is a 5 speed and is pretty much stock. The reason I was thinking I may have to do the tuning at the same time as the maf conversion is because most of upgraded conversions do not come with a computer but the computer upgrade is needed for the conversion and my computer is a speed density comp so it wont work. I have a new laptop and read something about that the car does not have to be on when doing tuning because the ecu is powered via the usb cable and the laptop. So what I was wondering is lets say I pick up the tweecer rt tuning kit which I think I am pretty much sold on (I like doing things myself and even though it may take awhile to learn I am a patient guy so I don't mind) and if I pick up a computer from the wreckers for say approx. 50 to 100. Before I replace the computer in my car and before I do any of the upgrades what if I plug the used ecu that I go for the wreckers into my laptop using the tweecer rt. Without having the ecu installed in the car could I read from the ecu what the current configuration is and could I make the changes following without having it installed:
size of mass air meter say 75mm
size of throttle body say 75mm
relocation of o2 sensor (because of long tubes)
if necessary if I upgrade the injectors to 30lbs from 19?

If you check out: http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=101115A30+01&Category=&catkey=74-01

This meter is calibrated for 30lbs injectors.
There is one that is the same size but calibrated for 19lbs injectors.

So the problem I am having with going ahead and doing the conversion is that the computer that I get from the wreckors will probably only be calibrated for say a 65mm mass air meter and calibrated for 19 lbs injectors.

The conversion requires that I purchase a new maf ecu anyways so before even attempting it do you think it is possible to program the computer from the wreckers for the upgrades before I actually do them then I could do the following which seems pretty simple as long as I am able to make the changes on the ecu before hand:

-bolting on the mass air meter (it comes with the bracket) it also comes with the wiring harness, the intake hose, and a filter. That part doesn't sound to bad I think the worst part of the job will be putting in the new computer which I would make sure I get a wiring harness for at the same time I purchase it from the wreckers. That would probably include a hookup where the mass air meter plugs into as my car doesn't currently have a mass air meter. This is all assuming that I would be able to make the changes before hand. If this would work I may aswell put the long tubes, injectors and larger fuel pump on. What do you think?
 

ninety15.0

New Member
Mar 10, 2004
1,336
0
0
vristang said:
I am very glad to have made the TwEECer RT purchase.

I assume the CEL eliminator kit you mention is for the EGR? If so, don't waste your money. Changing one setting in the tweecer will fix the problem.

Since you will be tuning the car with the tweecer there is no need to pick up any particular computer. Try to find one that is for a manual or auto, depending on what you have. Any other settings can be tuned.
Some to look for are the A9* series or the X3Z, but others should work as well.

The tweecer can adjust for the relocation of the O2's. The process seems fairly well documented.

Yes, you can tune for any MAF on the market. You can also configure the EEC for any injector size as well.

30lb injectors will not require a secondary pump. There are many folks running 42lb injectors with a 255lph pump and stock lines.
If running boost however, it may be needed.

The tweecer can be used on some other EEC-IV and newer Ford vehicles. The list of vehicles is fairly short however. Check the tweecer site for details.

Some other ideas are...
You may be able to find a Lightning MAF used somewhere. These were 80 or 90mm, and are very accurate.

The tweecer software can be downloaded free, as well as the "Getting Started Manual"
These are good to look over before making the purchase.
If you get frustrated with the complexity at this point then maybe another tuner would be a better choice. It is not that the tweecer is bad, it is just different than a PMS, or some of the other tuners on the market.

Check with the Tweecer website before making a computer purchase. There is a list of supported computers there.
Actually if you download CalEdit, the list of supported computers is there as well.

Take the MAF conversion as a separate project from tuning with the tweecer.
When you start using the tweecer it will be pretty confusing for a while. If you are trying to sort out mechanical and/or wiring issues from the MAF conversion during this time, you will get very frustrated.
Make sure the MAF conversion is done right then move into tuning.

In order to tune the AFR you must have a wideband O2. You can pick one of these up at Innovate for $200 or so.

I spent 550 on the tweecer, 350 for a used ebay laptop, and will buy a 200 WB O2 shortly.

Feel free to contact me if you have other questions,
jason
Actually the CEL eliminators are for use with longtubes when you dont want to run extensions or O2 sensors all together. As for the orig. poster...you still need to do a little research...you have mistaken/misunderstood some of the abilities of the tweecer. While its a very powerful tuner...its not that simple to use effectively. As vristang said...it has a steep learning curve and its not something you want to get in the midst of while doing a MAF conversion. do the conversion first and get it running...then get it tuned. Secondly 30 lb injectors in your case will be a little more difficult to tune out at this point with a stock motor. with the HCI swap you will be fine w/ 30's but for now the stock 19's are more than OK. You will most def need a wideband O2 welded in the exhaust (250$) and a laptop to datalog and tune. An adjustable FPR would be a help and a big intake pump (255lph) would be perfect. Again like vristang said....new lines will not be neccesary! good luck man...do a TON of research before you get things torn apart. The tweecer is only as good as the programmer! -Nick
 

vristang

10 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
4,751
27
109
43
Seattle
www.SeattleBlueOvals.com
ninety15.0 said:
Actually the CEL eliminators are for use with longtubes when you dont want to run extensions or O2 sensors all together. As for the orig. poster...you still need to do a little research...you have mistaken/misunderstood some of the abilities of the tweecer. While its a very powerful tuner...its not that simple to use effectively. As vristang said...it has a steep learning curve and its not something you want to get in the midst of while doing a MAF conversion. do the conversion first and get it running...then get it tuned. Secondly 30 lb injectors in your case will be a little more difficult to tune out at this point with a stock motor. with the HCI swap you will be fine w/ 30's but for now the stock 19's are more than OK. You will most def need a wideband O2 welded in the exhaust (250$) and a laptop to datalog and tune. An adjustable FPR would be a help and a big intake pump (255lph) would be perfect. Again like vristang said....new lines will not be neccesary! good luck man...do a TON of research before you get things torn apart. The tweecer is only as good as the programmer! -Nick
Thanks for clearing up the CEL eliminator stuff. Personally, I would keep the O2's though.
However, the need for an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is debatable when using a tuner. When you have access to all the fuel settings in the EEC, it is best to make fuel adjustments there. My opinion though, others have disagreed. :shrug:

jason
 

vristang

10 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
4,751
27
109
43
Seattle
www.SeattleBlueOvals.com
AnthonyR23 said:
-bolting on the mass air meter (it comes with the bracket) it also comes with the wiring harness, the intake hose, and a filter. That part doesn't sound to bad I think the worst part of the job will be putting in the new computer which I would make sure I get a wiring harness for at the same time I purchase it from the wreckers. That would probably include a hookup where the mass air meter plugs into as my car doesn't currently have a mass air meter. This is all assuming that I would be able to make the changes before hand. If this would work I may aswell put the long tubes, injectors and larger fuel pump on. What do you think?
In order to avoid buying multiple parts, here is what I would do...
Pickup a new MAF and a used EEC.
Load the MAF Transfer into the computer, and make NO other changes, except for disabling emissions. You can find the MAF Transfers on the web. I have some links on my site.
Stick with the 19lb injectors, and don't change the injector settings in the EEC.

By doing this you will be able to run the car while trouble shooting and inspecting the MAF conversion.
Odds are there will be some problem when you do the conversion. IF there is a problem you don't want to be chasing electrical, mechanical, AND tune issues.

Once you have the MAF conversion done, then install the headers and injectors.
The fuel pump can go on at any time you desire, it won't have a major impact on the tune.

Yes, you should be able to read from the EEC without it being installed in the car. And you can write to the tweecer.

Again, download the software before making a final decision. You can even find different tunes (A9L, A9P, X3Z, etc) to play with on the web.

It will be nice to have another tweecer here :nice:

jason
 

AnthonyR23

Member
Sep 8, 2006
661
0
16
Ontario
Hey guys! Thanks for the input and replies!! All comments are greatly appreciated. I do definetely want to learn about tuning even if I do the conversion without making changes to the computer first I am excited to use the real time feature included with the rt model and even trying to analyze the data excites me even without trying to make changes.. Anyways though here is an article I found about the conversions in general...

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/10/MassAirConversion/index.php

After reading the article I really think that I will be able to complete this conversion without much difficulty. I actually think my conversion will be easier. I do not have to worry about getting the y duct used in that article as my mustang has a single intake, and since my mustang has a manual transmission I do not need to worry about the computer having anything to do with the tranny I also don't think I need to do anything with my o2 sensors if I leave my exhaust as is for now. I think that if I could pick up a 75mm mass air meter and sensor. And patiently figure out how to load the maf transfer onto the computer before plugging it in I think things may go well. What do you guys think? If I go ahead with the conversion without loading the maf transfer onto the computer do you think I will experience drivability issues with the 75mm air meter. I really would prefer having the computer set for that before it is installed. Oh another question.... Why would I have to disable emissions at this point? I noticed the tweecer has 4 different settings, the laws just changed here and now 88 and on mustangs have to be 30 years old before being exempt from emissions, it was 20 years old, thought I was free!! How convenient 88 and on vehicles.... Wish mine was a 87. One year off!! lol :(

I would like to be able to have 1 of the 4 settings on the tweecer that would slightly lean things out for the day I have to get another emissions test I just passed one so I have two years to worry about that day again lol!! That is the only reason I am asking about why I have to disable emissions...

Another thing...
I read the following about the long tubes:
--Longtube header settings--

( if youre running longtubes, you might have ran into some problems with the O2's going cold, or taking a while to heat up to temp, these settings should keep everything happy)

:Tables:
Exhuast Pulse Delay

R P M
900 1300 1500
.075 - 24 24 24 24
L .06- 24 24 24 24
O .05 - 20 20 20 20
A .04 - 20 20 20 20
D .03 - 20 20 20 20
.02 - 20 20 20 20
.01 - 20 20 20 20
.005 - 20 20 20 20

I currently have a bad exhaust leak, on my headers where the 4 pipes connect there is a hole on the passenger side. On hard acceleration I hear a ticking noise. So I got a cro bar and put it against the header and listned to the end and now know that it is coming from that area. So as a quick fix I dropped the exhaust bought new gaskets while I was at it, welded the header and put everything back, those bolts can be a ***** where you connect the headers to the h-pipe... but that was obviously a very temporary fix. It isn't as bad but there is still a leak. That is slowly getting louder again. I also took the upper manifold off and replaced the cyclinder head cover gaskets as they were leaking at the back, whoever put them on before screwed up the gasket and didn't line it up right. From now on I am doing all of my own work. I also just finished a clutch job (which was a pain lying in the driveway!!! lol) garage is coming this year!! Anyways..... I need to do something about that leaky header. If I was to pick up some long tube headers (my 02 sensors are brand new too) how hard would this be to have configured using the tweecer:

--Longtube header settings--

( if youre running longtubes, you might have ran into some problems with the O2's going cold, or taking a while to heat up to temp, these settings should keep everything happy)

:Tables:
Exhuast Pulse Delay

R P M
900 1300 1500
.075 - 24 24 24 24
L .06- 24 24 24 24
O .05 - 20 20 20 20
A .04 - 20 20 20 20
D .03 - 20 20 20 20
.02 - 20 20 20 20
.01 - 20 20 20 20
.005 - 20 20 20 20

So under one of the tweecer settings if I was to change the exhaust pulse delay to the above and load the maf transfer. Do you think this would be a pain to try to do? Or do you guys think this is still way to much.. What I am trying to do is reduce long term what I am going to end up putting into this. I don't plan on getting rid of this car either. I don't want to replace the header with short tubes if I am going to end up wanting to replace them with long tubes later and same with the mass air meter... Thanks guys!!! Kinda long!! lol

Anthony