Father/son Project 2.0

oct6454

Member
Feb 28, 2016
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Hello everyone,

Quite a cool little forum you've got going on here.

I'll start off by saying that my dad and I are looking for a new project. The last project was to swap a JDMEJ205 into a USDM wrx wagon that I now daily drive. It's a fun little car that gets pretty good gas mileage and has some spunk for those days when you need to cruise. (16g, STi TMIC, walbro 255, EBCS etc...)

Anyways, we are itching for another project as the time spent together working on that car was something that we both appreciated immensly. I'm somewhat hooked on the idea of building a foxbody. I've always liked the look of them and understand that they have quite a bit of aftermarket support.

So far I feel that picking up a manual 5.0 is the way to go. I was hoping to build a motor for it (never built a motor by myself before). With that being said, as I've looked into building a motor I've realized just how expensive that really is and it's got me rethinking my plan. With that in mind, I do know that I can purchase a running 5.0 then by a spare LB and build that slowly...

Anyways, I'm looking for some advice from you guys on a direction. The car will simply be a mean weekend cruiser and possibly introduce my dad and I to the strip....How should I approach this idea?

Thanksm
 
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Depends on how crazy you want to get into the build.
Do you like a coupe? Hatchback? Convertible? I have a t-top, which is something different. Do you want a GT, LX, SVO?
What kind-of budget do you have to purchase the car? The more you spend initially will probably cut back on the repairs you will need to do apart from modifying.
Everything takes money. It takes time as well.
Father/son project is a cool idea though.
There are huge amounts of different mods you can do.
Find a car you like.
I'm a four eyed fan myself (79-86). Aero's (87-93) are ok, I guess......:ack:
Get a car and talk to us, we'll help.
 
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Far too many people put a dab of this and a dollop of that, and then wonder why the car doesn't run worth beans. Then they think off the shelf computer chips will fix their mismatched parts problem. It won't

You have to have a plan for what kind of performance you want: Hot street. Street/Strip, Pure strip, Autocross or Road course. Each one requires a different strategy and a different set of components.. Mismatch the components and you’ll have a car that falls flat on its face when you demand performance.

Everyone thinks HP! HP! HP! and thinks that peak HP is what they need. Peak HP is great for a drag strip car when it has the proper gears and tires to get the car up into the high RPM range where it develops that high peak HP near the finish line. On a street car, that strategy will have Honda Accords outrunning you, because you will never get the engine RPMs high enough without running over everything in your path.

Here’ the strategy: Always remember that there are some tradeoffs in any engine combination. Most of us don’t have enough money to “have it all” as if it was possible by some masterful combination of parts and tuning.

The following recommendations are for 5 Speed Manual transmission cars without NO2 or pressurized induction, stock short block.
1.) Hot street: Broad flat torque curve, high velocity airflow in the intake and heads for best throttle response. Gears suitable for reasonable gas mileage and long road trips without excessive engine RPMs. Stand on the gas pedal from a rolling start to squeeze into that gap in traffic in front of you, and it jumps quick and hard to get you there. Max RPM’s are 5200-5500 RPM for best power. Lopey cams may sound cool, but run poorly in a low RPM street environment.
Use stock cam, stock, GT40 or mildly ported stock heads, Cobra or Explorer/GT40 intake, advanced timing, stock 19 lb injectors, stock fuel pump. Use some good 1.6 or 1.7 ratio roller rockers for extra punch. Use a King Cobra clutch, with stock iron or steel billet flywheel. MAF cars can use a 65 MM TB from the Explorer intake manifold and a 70MM MAF from a 94-95 Mustang. Drive train: 3:55 gears with soft tread compound tires. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, stock 2 1/4” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. The stock computer will handle all this with no problems and doesn’t need any help in 90% of the cases. No skinny or grossly undersize tires for the front: remember you still have to stop quickly in traffic. Make sure all the rubber bushings in the front and rear suspensions are in first class shape. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Street/strip: A little more slope to the torque curve with a gently sloping peak. Use slightly larger port volumes on intake and heads for more peak HP. Uses 3.55 or 3.73 gears to get the RPM’s up into a higher range quicker. Be prepared to sacrifice some low RPM throttle response in exchange for high RPM power. This by necessity will be a Mass Air or Mass Air conversion on 86-88 5.0 Mustangs, since stock speed density will not run well with the changes in engine airflow. Don’t get too crazy on any one engine part since you still have to drive the car on the street, and a mismatch can make street driving miserable.
Use stock or mild aftermarket cam, Ported GT 40, or 165-180 CC port volume aftermarket aluminum heads. Use a Trick Flow, Edelbrock Performer or equal intake manifold. Take a 73 MM aftermarket MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors, and 24 lb injectors, 155 LPH fuel pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Be prepared to shell out some $$$ for a custom burned chip using data gathered from a dyno run. Mass market chips will not get the job done. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, aftermarket 2 1/2” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. Drivetrain: expect the stock T5 to fail, so save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Carry spare tires and wheels for the drag strip: skinnys for the front and drag radials for the rear. No skinnys for street driving! Over 85% of the breaking power is generated by the front tires, so skinnys won’t do the job in a panic stop situation. Disconnect the front anti-roll bar at the strip; reconnect it before you drive home. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Strip only: High RPM, High flow heads (185-215 CC port volume), wild cam, high flow intake manifold, 70 MM or larger TB, 80 MM or lager MAF, strip everything out of the car that doesn’t make it go faster. Carbs are OK if that’s what you want, but remember that as the temp/humidity/ barometric pressure/altitude changes, you have to re-jet and readjust the carb. EFI eliminates most of that with its built in compensation or you can tune of the fly with a high end Motes or Tweecer system combined with a wide band air/fuel ratio meter. Use custom headers, dumps and minimal mufflers. How fast you can go on 5 liters is a function of the skill level of the driver/mechanic and the size of your wallet.

TRAILER the car to the race track since it won’t be legal to drive it on the street. Drag slicks in the rear, skinnys up front, use 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) in the rear axle. Since you won’t be driving on long trips, the big gears with work with the high RPM power curve to get the best results. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Remove the front sway bar, put an airbag in the rear spring of the side that spins the tire the most. Plan on a roll cage if you are truly serious about going fast: most strips will require it once you get to a certain ET range.

Autocross is a combination of Hot street engine and street strip chassis prep. The engine must accelerate quickly from low RPM and needs a broad, flat torque curve. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Most of the time you’ll never hit third gear, so some 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) may help a lot. You’ll have to spend some more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. A 87-88 T Bird Turbo Coupe or SN 95 rear axle will be your best bet. Autocross will severely strain 1st & 2nd gears, so your T5 may take a premature dump. Save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices.

All out road race is the most difficult of all: an engine that will run at high rpm hour after hour and never fail, yet pull hard out of the hairpin turns that will require a lot of torque at lower RPMs. In my opinion, guys that can successfully build a winning road race engine are the cream of the crop. Top this off with a chassis built for strip only duty, but with changes to the settings of springs, tires, roll bars brakes and shocks. It’s a whole other world of racing.
You’ll have to spend lots more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. Air ducting to cool the brake rotors will be a must. The brake rotors of cars on a high speed road course glow red after several hard laps of racing. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600, and T56 close ratio are the best transmission choices.
 
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Look.

Any Fox mustang you buy on the cheap will be needing a ton of stuff. Never mind the aftermarket performance mods, just getting the car tolerable, and safe to drive can be the "project" in of itself. In alot of cases, the engine will not need to even be replaced, so why bother with that as a focus for the project? I'd much rather my son drive a decent looking, safe, comfortable car with whatever it needed taken care of first,( Engine maintenance,Tires, brakes, shocks, lights, steering, suspension) then some creature comfort/ appearance stuff (gaskets, hinges, strikers, window regulators/motors, weatherstripping, carpet, interior pieces, stereo)
Then some body appearance, exterior stuff ( wash/claybar/buff/wax, trim paint, wheel/tires) waay before I ever even remotely worried about rebuilding and swapping an engine.

As it's been said earlier. It's a 35 year old car. It'll need alot of stuff just to get it to a point of tolerable. I'd make that the center of focus on any project that I intended to do with my son, or dad.
 
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Like others have said, buy the cleanest stock 5.0 you can find! Do a little traveling to get it if you need to. Also, notchback? Hatchback? 4eye? What body style do you want. These cars are notorious for having bad owners that beat on the car and have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever. They cut wires under the hood and dash leaving an electrical nightmare. They mismatch parts and swear they "think" it's got "x" brand cam in it but they didn't install it.

Go get the most boring grandma driven stock Mustang and start your build from there. You will still spend a fair amount of money restoring seals, brakes, steering, tune up, etc before you even get to "modding" the car. Make it safe first then make it fast.

Check the torque boxes for damage, tears
check the A pillers for damage, if you see any creases then the car is twisted
check the floor pan to see if it's messed up or wavy like a potato chip,
check the radiator core support for damage indicating a collision
electrical, cut wires and lots of splices = run away

On any day of the week I'd take a stock 5.0 with clean body, paint, and clean interior with a cruddy stock engine OVER a hopped up Mustang with stroker motor and aluminum heads with lots of HP and a lowering kit but needs paint, body and interior work.

Good luck!
 
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I agree with about everything that was already pointed out. Here's a different angle you may also think about. Find a clean body, it doesn't have to be a 5.0 car. Most every other Fox body car has interchangeable parts. So do your research after finding a good body. In our case, we started off with an 84 convertible that was a fairly decent start. It had a 3.8 auto. We then found a 90 Lincoln Mark VII, 5.0 AOD. Most everything swapped, the rear end housing, engine and transmission. There were electrical issues we had to sort out, but there is a ton of information on these cars, so it was fairly easy-and I'm no electrical guru! I'd say whatever decent body you pick up, subframe connectors are a must. If you aren't afraid to dig in, probably spend some money that you may never recover, and possibly do a little fabricating with minor things, this is probably the way to go. 4 & 6 cylinder cars have a higher probability to not have been screwed with as badly as a 5.0 car, leaving more of an open canvas for you and your dad to make it your own. But like I said, do your research! The early Fox Mustangs that had the I6 had a different engine cradle that a 5.0 won't swap into, requiring replacement of the cradle. These are the only cars like this. Good luck!!

Edit: Check my albums page for a few pics of the 84 and the donor Lincoln. I believe there are a few pics of a problem area of the front frame rail that you might want to look at when looking at projects for yourself.
 
Welcome to the forum! I love hearing about projects like this because I hope to do the same with my son some day. Everyone else has already given great recommendations on what to look for. In my opinion, the biggest thing is to figure out a long term plan for the car and be patient when looking for it. Figure out how far you are willing to go in regards to repairs and what you are willing to compromise before you start searching. A lot of the ones you find will probably be beat up so it may take some time unless you are willing to buy a junker to start with. With patience and the willingness to travel you should find a good one to start with. Good luck and make sure to post updates! Everyone here will be able to give great advice on anything you want to do.

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Agree with the advice above... buy the lowest mileage, straightest/cleanest most stock one you can find.
Pay up front for it, then work slowly at the little things.
 
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Wow, thanks for the replies everyone.

I should have stated the spending from the onset. For the car itself we were hoping for 5g or less. As for body style, I preffer the late models 87-93 are my favorite.

So far the nicest one I've found is actually a 4cyl....its paint is beautiful but its a 4cyl and I dont really want to swap in a different motor simply becuase of additional plumbing/wiring that can be a headache.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/5464553464.html Looks pretty clean to me....

The car will be a street/strip car. My dad is not much of a road racer or any racer for that matter (I rallyX) but he owned an earlier model back in his highschool years and I thought this could be a fun little project for both of us. Honestly we've never been drag racing so I had hoped this car may get us a chance to do that.

I will definitely take everyones advice on buying the nicest car that I can find. I really dont want a convertable, nothing against them but I much prefer a coupe or hatch and even a t-top.
 
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