Is there any good guides online on how to dissassemble and reassembly of a ford toploader 4 speed? Im looking into rebuilding my toploader and repairing it myself, every place we take the transmission to wants to completly rebuild the whole thing and charge me $1300+ I know that its more than likely the shifting fork for 1st - 2nd may be bent.
Ford toploader dissassembly
- Thread starter xsi3rr4x
- Start date
-
Sponsors (?)
mustangmutt
Member
This might help, its a how to article from Mustang Monthly
How To Rebuild A Top Loader Four-Speed - Mustang Monthly Magazine
How To Rebuild A Top Loader Four-Speed - Mustang Monthly Magazine
dennis112
15 Year Member
By far the best rebuild info is found on CD and it come from Mark at Toploader Heaven. Hundreds of pictures which are a godsend for a first time rebuild or for the person who only occasionally works on them. Print the rebuild manual out and you will have step by step instructions with lots of tips and tricks to make the work easier. No other site or manual has this much detail.
You should also consider his little toolkit which makes toploader assembly far easier-the manual shows how to use them. Buy both and he will give you a discount on parts purchases--and his parts prices aren't bad in the first place. Mark is a hell of a good guy to work with too.
Here is a link to the CD and took kit:
Gasket and Tool Set.
PS--What state do you live in?
You should also consider his little toolkit which makes toploader assembly far easier-the manual shows how to use them. Buy both and he will give you a discount on parts purchases--and his parts prices aren't bad in the first place. Mark is a hell of a good guy to work with too.
Here is a link to the CD and took kit:
Gasket and Tool Set.
PS--What state do you live in?
I actually live in VA, Iv been trying to get my 69 mustang converted to a manuel for almost 2 months now, It all began when I bought a 79 mustang and robbing the 4-speed out of it, turns out it was an SROD 4 speed with an overdrive transmission (which if you do some reading up on then everyone hates them)
So I decided to go with my dads old 4 speed toploader sitting on the shelf in the garage, he had told me he was driving it down his driveway one day and a big rock came up and slapped the side of the transmission, right when that happend it shifted itself from first down to second. and he wasnt able to get first anymore
When I bench shifted the transmission I noticed that it will shift into first, but when I turn the transmission its like its in nuetral. but it would go into every other gear just fine
My dad had told me someone told him that Its a bent shifting fork.
So being that we dont work on transmissions we took it down to a place nearby and they wanted $1300 and said that 1st 2nd and 3rd needed to be replaced, (which by the way the transmission only had 50kmiles on it) and when I looked inside the gears seemed perfectly fine, So I believe they were wanting to rebuild the transmission, when we wanted it to be fixed.
I have already poured out a lot of money throughout this process and am looking for a fix under $500, so it seems like my best bet is to rebuild it myself and try to figure out whats going on with it myself.
So I decided to go with my dads old 4 speed toploader sitting on the shelf in the garage, he had told me he was driving it down his driveway one day and a big rock came up and slapped the side of the transmission, right when that happend it shifted itself from first down to second. and he wasnt able to get first anymore
When I bench shifted the transmission I noticed that it will shift into first, but when I turn the transmission its like its in nuetral. but it would go into every other gear just fine
My dad had told me someone told him that Its a bent shifting fork.
So being that we dont work on transmissions we took it down to a place nearby and they wanted $1300 and said that 1st 2nd and 3rd needed to be replaced, (which by the way the transmission only had 50kmiles on it) and when I looked inside the gears seemed perfectly fine, So I believe they were wanting to rebuild the transmission, when we wanted it to be fixed.
I have already poured out a lot of money throughout this process and am looking for a fix under $500, so it seems like my best bet is to rebuild it myself and try to figure out whats going on with it myself.
Oh! and dennis, you have somewhat helped me in a previous thread I had made, Thank you very much! You seem to obviously know a lot more about these then I do, From what I described above what do you think my problem could be? im still thinking the shift fork
Any help would be well appreciated, I had been pouring money into this and I keep getting set back and I really need to get this done soon.
Any help would be well appreciated, I had been pouring money into this and I keep getting set back and I really need to get this done soon.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
I thought you had that whole thing narrowed down to the linkage, did that prove out to not be the problem?
Thats what I had though, but then I actually bench shifted throughout all the gears,
2nd, 3rd, 4th work like they're supposed to and upon turning the transmission with our hands it does turn the yoke at the end of the transmission
reverse works like its supposed to turning the yoke the oppisite way
then when it came to bench shifting 1st and it was like we were in nuetral.
this leads me to believe once again that its the shifting fork, I just dont understand how it would work with 2nd but not first,
All the gears and synchronizers look all fine, the transmission only has about 50,000 miles on it....
So im guessing it would be the shifting fork or the shifting rod where the fork attaches
Also I ended up ordering a new detent and spring to replace the spring I had lost that goes under the top cover of the transmission, I noticed that the detent was still in the hole, I couldnt get it out with a magnet or tipping the transmission upside down, its like its stuck in there.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
Bench shifting, with the linkage in place, or just using a pair of pliers or similar?
The shift forks really only look like a giant "C" that slides over the synchro's. If you have had the top off, you should be able to see if there is a flaw...
The shift forks really only look like a giant "C" that slides over the synchro's. If you have had the top off, you should be able to see if there is a flaw...
I was shifting with pliers, at the time we were about to put the transmission in the car, but hadnt gotten the linkages in the mail, so I had the cover on and shifted it.
Im picking up the transmission from the shop on monday (hopefully not in peices)
I will be posting a lot of pictures and such to hopefully get some help throughout this process
Is there any sort of test I should try when I get the transmission back to help narrow down the problem?
Im picking up the transmission from the shop on monday (hopefully not in peices)
I will be posting a lot of pictures and such to hopefully get some help throughout this process
Is there any sort of test I should try when I get the transmission back to help narrow down the problem?
dennis112
15 Year Member
When bench shifting, be sure to be rotating the input shaft or the output shaft at the same time. This helps align the sychros. A crescent wrench will cause less damage to the arms than a pair of pliers.
It is hard to tell what could be damaged over the internet without good pics. Although I doubt if you have a bent fork, the internal shifter arm for 1st/2nd gear might be damaged or it could have broken a brass blocker ring. The spring and detent are not the problem. The brass blocker might even be jammed hard on the gear and simply need pried back. Any of these things will take a major disassembly.
Toploaders are not the easiest transmission to take a part and they have to be done in an orderly fashion. I rate them about an 8 on the mechanical difficulty scale. If your mechanical skills or tools are lacking, you will have difficulties. Still, the problem can probably be fixed for a fraction of the $1300.
I asked where you were to see if I could offer you some more personal toploader help. I kind of got a thing for them and always have some extra parts laying around. Drag racing one keeps me on my toes. Since you are in VA, you are probably too far away from lower central PA to make a trip, especially if you have a gas guzzler. The offer still stand though.
It is hard to tell what could be damaged over the internet without good pics. Although I doubt if you have a bent fork, the internal shifter arm for 1st/2nd gear might be damaged or it could have broken a brass blocker ring. The spring and detent are not the problem. The brass blocker might even be jammed hard on the gear and simply need pried back. Any of these things will take a major disassembly.
Toploaders are not the easiest transmission to take a part and they have to be done in an orderly fashion. I rate them about an 8 on the mechanical difficulty scale. If your mechanical skills or tools are lacking, you will have difficulties. Still, the problem can probably be fixed for a fraction of the $1300.
I asked where you were to see if I could offer you some more personal toploader help. I kind of got a thing for them and always have some extra parts laying around. Drag racing one keeps me on my toes. Since you are in VA, you are probably too far away from lower central PA to make a trip, especially if you have a gas guzzler. The offer still stand though.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
Is your dad following along with these threads? Does your dad type pretty well, or no? We all on the board are here to help, but maybe your dad has some different input on this?
he can type fine and all, but he wouldnt be sayin anything different than me since were both trying to troubleshoot it together, we have the whole transmission in nuetral, and when we try to move it, it either locks up or is not in nuetral,
but clearly when we look into the case none of the gears seem to be engaged, I fooled around with it this morning and put it in reverse, and then it locked back up.
When we first got it back together last night we got EVERYTHING to work once
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, reverse, and even nuetral, then we went to shift through everything again and thats when we couldnt get nuetral
and now sometimes we cant get reverse.
but clearly when we look into the case none of the gears seem to be engaged, I fooled around with it this morning and put it in reverse, and then it locked back up.
When we first got it back together last night we got EVERYTHING to work once
1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, reverse, and even nuetral, then we went to shift through everything again and thats when we couldnt get nuetral
and now sometimes we cant get reverse.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
Looking forward to seeing what you are working with. As it was posted earlier, they tend to "bench test" better if there is some input from the input shaft, rather than just sitting still.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Sounds like there is something wrong with the shift rods/trunions. Depending upon the year, the trunions have to be in a specific order and of course the spring need to be in the right places too. If the trunions are all identical, disregard.
Do the gears spin freely when in neutral?
Except for missing the spring at the bottom, here is pretty much how the parts go together:
Also it sounds like your transmission uses the long spring at the top instead of the screw thing with the short spring as shown above.
i have the long spring up top without the set screw
I havnt put the detent and the spring and the bolt that goes on the side of the transmission yet
and for the 3rd/4th shift rail (pictured as the one in the middle in your picture) the skinny looking detent goes inside a hole in that rail right?
If so then I have it all together right besides not having the top and side dentent/spring in yet.
Im still waiting for my dad to get home because he has my camera, he might be out late tonight, but we have been turning the transmission as we shift
I havnt put the detent and the spring and the bolt that goes on the side of the transmission yet
and for the 3rd/4th shift rail (pictured as the one in the middle in your picture) the skinny looking detent goes inside a hole in that rail right?
If so then I have it all together right besides not having the top and side dentent/spring in yet.
Im still waiting for my dad to get home because he has my camera, he might be out late tonight, but we have been turning the transmission as we shift
dennis112
15 Year Member
Yep, skinny detent goes in the hole.
The detent, spring and bolt on the side need to be in place to keep the 3/4 rail in position-that could possibly be the current problem as it holds the shift rod exactly in place. The long top spring and detent are not important at this time and can be left out.
Curious as to the source of the original problem--wouldn't shift into 1st gear.
The detent, spring and bolt on the side need to be in place to keep the 3/4 rail in position-that could possibly be the current problem as it holds the shift rod exactly in place. The long top spring and detent are not important at this time and can be left out.
Curious as to the source of the original problem--wouldn't shift into 1st gear.
Similar threads
