Build Thread Frankenstang- Eaton M112 5.0 - On the back burner

CarMichael Angelo

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That's a neat idea Mike, some mixed reviews about the nitrous plate systems. Nitrous express has a water injection plate I could use. Next question is so I want to inject before or after the blower..... before the blower is simple and would allow me to use the washer fluid reservoir and pump. I'm not certain I want to spend the kind of money they want for the snow kits...
If I could make a kit with an old fuel pump that would work out great and could be injected after the blower.
Has anyone built one of these kits before?
Nobody here (with very few exceptions) has built anything that didn't come with instructions....you should know that by now.
If you are gonna make something custom happen it's gonna be up to you to do it. There will be no "this is how I did its" here, unless you are talking about how to bolt on a set of heads.
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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Nobody here (with very few exceptions) has built anything that didn't come with instructions....you should know that by now.
If you are gonna make something custom happen it's gonna be up to you to do it. There will be no "this is how I did its" here, unless you are talking about how to bolt on a set of heads.
That don't mean we read them!
Instructions :doh: who needs 'em when there's facepage.
 

jrichker

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That's a neat idea Mike, some mixed reviews about the nitrous plate systems. Nitrous express has a water injection plate I could use. Next question is so I want to inject before or after the blower..... before the blower is simple and would allow me to use the washer fluid reservoir and pump. I'm not certain I want to spend the kind of money they want for the snow kits...
If I could make a kit with an old fuel pump that would work out great and could be injected after the blower. Has anyone built one of these kits before?
After the blower is the preferred method; you get the maximum effect as the vaporization of the water/meth mixture cools the intake air charge. This is engine technology that dates back to WWI aircraft engines that used high levels of boost and water meth injection to prevent detonation. It also allows running the fuel mixture close to the perfect air/fuel mixture without overheating the engine due to higher combustion temperatures.

For some of the best information on the subject, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)
 
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a91what

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Nobody here (with very few exceptions) has built anything that didn't come with instructions....you should know that by now.
If you are gonna make something custom happen it's gonna be up to you to do it. There will be no "this is how I did its" here, unless you are talking about how to bolt on a set of heads.
Kind of an arbitrary question Mike, you know I build everything myself even if the results are questionable.:O_o:
 

jrichker

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As I understand it before the blower provides better rotor sealing and cools the housing as well....
That may be true in roots and screw type compressors. The after the blower water injection was used with centrifugal and turbo superchargers because they offered the best weight/size performance at that time. A roots/screw positive displacement supercharger would have to be very large and power hungry to supply 15 PSI boost to 1000-4400 cubic inch engines.
 

jrichker

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I win!

I will have a Gen5 m112 from a 2005 4.2l xjr to go on the car in place of the m90. Should be capable of 15-18psi
Low long will it be until we hear the BOOM!!! where something broke under those boost levels?

You do have Dart or other block with 4 bolt mains and heavy duty construction don't you?
 

a91what

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Oh no... There is no way my stock bottom end hyperutectic piston 306 will survive at those levels. The m90 made 10psi but dropped off tward red line. Making 389ftlbs tq at 3000 rpm and only 286 rwhp at 4800. At blower rpm far exceeding bearing rating.
I'm hoping I can pulley the larger more efficient blower to 10psi and achieve better numbers. :nice:
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Ok then...is this new blower one that will let you "unbury" the driver side of the engine, and move it on top of the engine?
 

a91what

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That's how it's getting mounted regardless, I'm not going through all of that ever again. Intercooler is going away, water injection is happening. I just have to find some of the other necessary parts. I want to separate the belts and put a.c. back on the car at some point.
I still need......
-vortech or similar crank pulley
-aluminum plate to build ish with
-1" thick aluminum carb plate (if what i have does not line up this is to weld to)
-parts for diy water injection system this I can consult YouTube about.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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That's how it's getting mounted regardless, I'm not going through all of that ever again. Intercooler is going away, water injection is happening. I just have to find some of the other necessary parts. I want to separate the belts and put a.c. back on the car at some point.
I still need......
-vortech or similar crank pulley
-aluminum plate to build ish with
-1" thick aluminum carb plate (if what i have does not line up this is to weld to)
-parts for diy water injection system this I can consult YouTube about.
I assume that you will be putting EDIS on it then? Wont that thing end up poking out of the hood?

I mean,..not that I mind a huffer hanging out all high and proud,..I'm just wondering if your present hood will accommodate the standoff.

I wish I could help with the stuff you're doing, but you don't need it. Hopefully,you'll get the blower relocated and get this all sorted out, during which I'll have to be content to throw out one liners that leave you unsure about it's intent.
Then I'll fly down there and we'll have a driver side spark plug removal party,... and celebrate the fact that they can be changed completely out in less than 10 minutes.
 

a91what

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Edis8 is an option but as of yet may not be required, until I have the blower in hand it's hard to say.... I do know that this unit is similar in size to a kb blower so if I do the hat and intake right it should fit nicely.

Btw Mike I wouldn't mind the help I'm just stumbling through this as I go.:D luckily I learn some from the first rendition of makethisthingworkonsomethingitwasneverdesignedfor.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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I have this: it's twice as tall as you want but it's tapped for every damn iat, injector, map sensor you need.

20170526_075057.jpg
 

Boostedpimp

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Meth is the way to go.. nothing but gains to be had honestly. knock off weight by removing that ic and piping as well as minimize lag. It opens up a whole broader range to tune with and much more timing can be had. With meth your getting the octane and cooling advantage you didn't get before.

Next question is so I want to inject before or after the blower..... before the blower is simple and would allow me to use the washer fluid reservoir and pump. I'm not certain I want to spend the kind of money they want for the snow kits...
If I could make a kit with an old fuel pump that would work out great and could be injected after the blower. Has anyone built one of these kits before?
You want to inject after the blower.. your not trying to cool the charge to the blower. Your trying to cool the charge that's entering the engine.

You can use the washer fluid reservoir I've done that myself but you can't just use any old pump. You can only use one made to handle meth. If not it'll fail, I've seen it plenty of times with people who purchase really cheap no name brand kits or piece there own together. Just purchase the pump from a good source like
https://www.alkycontrol.com/ or http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/

I'd personally suggest you go with a progressive kit from one of those two companies and be done with it. The progressive controllers ramp up the injection and it's really easy to dial in your tune with.

One other thing is sure you can run a water/meth mix without a problem and get results but best results would be straight meth.
 
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a91what

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There are quite a few options for diy water injection kits. The expensive pumps are 300psi and meant for injecting into boost conditions. Most of your diy builds are done with a 60-100psi shurflow pump and injected at the throttlebody, some people have even used a windshieldwasher pump with good results.

I think I will wait to pick my setup until I know what my supercharger hat will look like. I don't want to leave a chance for water to puddle (very very low chance for this to happen)

Kits can be built for less than 150$
 

a91what

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Meth is the way to go.. nothing but gains to be had honestly. knock off weight by removing that ic and piping as well as minimize lag. It opens up a whole broader range to tune with and much more timing can be had. With meth your getting the octane and cooling advantage you didn't get before.



You want to inject after the blower.. your not trying to cool the charge to the blower. Your trying to cool the charge that's entering the engine.

You can use the washer fluid reservoir I've done that myself but you can't just use any old pump. You can only use one made to handle meth. If not it'll fail, I've seen it plenty of times with people who purchase really cheap no name brand kits or piece there own together. Just purchase the pump from a good source like
https://www.alkycontrol.com/ or http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/

I'd personally suggest you go with a progressive kit from one of those two companies and be done with it. The progressive controllers ramp up the injection and it's really easy to dial in your tune with.

One other thing is sure you can run a water/meth mix without a problem and get results but best results would be straight meth.
Negative. I am going to tie the system in with my megasquirt. This way i can trigger it with boost, temp, tps or combination of these. I will also be able to trigger table switching if I decide to use a meth mixture so as not to disturb my water only tune.