Engine Fresh build lifter noise

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
I’ve got a freshly built 408w that’s had a noise since first start, at first it sounded like an exhaust leak but after replacing the header gaskets with no sign of leaking it’s still there.

I’ve got morel 5323 lifters branded lunati and I’ve adjusted them a few times to see if I can get the noise to go away, almost 300 miles now and it’s still the same. Sometimes on longer drives it sounds like it gets quieter or maybe I just get used to it idk lol.

The last time I adjusted the preload when I was done I came back around to #4 exhaust and I could push the lifter all the way down by hand. It was the only one I could which seems to me could be my noise, I’m not wrong in assuming this shouldn’t be like this right?

View: https://youtu.be/bXijG085mck
 
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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
Hi, I agree that’s not quite right.
There’s a large margin of travel, there. Don’t want to jump to conclusions, yet. I’d change the oil & replace the filter -cut the old filter open looking for fragments.
Perform the basic tests below, .
1) Other variables aside, how far & with how much pressure can you comparatively compress the surrounding Cylinders lifters by pressing on the rear of their Rocker(s)?
(Mechanical lifter damage, different lifter/ mixup, stackup error).
- How much of this motor was assembled by the shop? I’d let them know you’ve got an anomaly, keep communications wide open with them.
2) Verify #4 cyl @ BDC. Carefully Lever the #4 exhaust valve/spring open & closed, similar force exerted opening the #4 Intake(?) Pull the Intake & Exhaust Pushrods & verify length is typical & Rocker studs tight heights as identical. Adjusters heights should be reasonably close when locked down with preload set. Shine a light down (Borescope, preferably) & look for lifter anomaly’s or fragments.(Pushrod length difference, mech lifter damage, Wrong Spring(s) in #4 Exh, Stem/Guide binding, Machining error?)
3) Using a machinists scale, or Dial Calipers, any difference in Valve Stem retainer height vs other cylinders? Can also spin a few Rockers & use Stems as a straightedge..(bent Valve?).
3) Fire extinguisher close by, have someone Fire the motor w/valvecover off & a piece of cardboard over the Valvecover surface to the Fender, covering the headers, how much is that lifter pumping up & opening the Valve vs the others, similar Oil flow through the #4 Exh.pushrod?(Obstruction in the Lifter or the galley feeding it?)
4) You can also pull the Dizzy & spin the Pump with a Drill & Check that your lifters are filling up, solidly- verify oil flow to lifter as adequate/similar.


You should have a general idea of whether the lifter needs to be pulled, or whether some other error is causing this at this point.
Personally- I’d rather pull a lifter than have possible fragments of a broken lifter’s pieces migrating through a fresh Motors oil/ innards, & potentially be pulling it..
Good luck!
-John
 
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Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Only thing the shop did with this engine was the machine work I did the rest.
Pretty sure it’s not a valve issue because if I run the engine or use a drill to pump the oil it comes out fine and the lifter feels fine but after cranking g the engine by hand a few times that’s when I can collapse to lifter by hand. It pumps up but doesn’t appear to hold right
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
Hi,
I’m interested in any test findings I’d suggested you try. Glad to hear oil flow to #4E is good! By comparing/performing the checks on Intake #4, & other tests is simple process of elimination Reasoning, to rule out a simple error, & get a baseline.
Any valvetrain component, it’s alignment(s)-anything that may be different/incorrect with #4 Ex. vs. others Valves with no issue noted may cause/cure your issue, including oil selection, Head retorque- if required, loose galley plug, etc.
Attempting to help- just understand I’m not talking down to you. K? Trying to help expedite root cause.
Since Rod/main bearing clearancing selection, Pump Pan/pickup type(s) & spacing delegate what oil you can/need to run, knowing whether it’s setup loose or on the tighter side would help..
installing another Good filter, K&N, M-1, Motorcraft (anti drainback) & new Oil of the non synthetic, high detergent type with a zinc additive. If you’re uncertain what Oil it’s clearanced for, contact the Shop who set the spec’s..What’s your Pressure cold, @ operating temp, & what viscosity are you running?
As 6.5 lifters can control higher Spring pressures, a bit louder, more sensitive to viscosity tick is the result, especially at startup. Some Crowers & Lunati’s more aggressive Hyd.lifters may need a temporary full turn of preload, as required, to get them working, viscosity & additional supplements will help.
Once you establish whether there’s differences, issues, what viscosity is being run, things will narrow down, quick..
-John
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
I followed lunatis suggestion and ran some sea foam in the oil. The lifter is fully pumped up now even after turning the engine over by hand a few times BUT I still have the noise I’ve been chasing.

I believe in this video I was just over 1000 rpm
View: https://youtu.be/wtCkLL5cidA
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
Hi,
Well- sorry to hear a noise remains, glad to hear that #4E’s pumping up for you, however. Additives help, used correctly. Can you pls.provide a little Data Re:
1) Cam your running, Heads.
2) Oil Wt./type you’re running, how many miles on the Motor.
3) C.Ratio? Octane being run?
4) Timing advance at idle? Does noise improve as engine temp increases?
5) Oil Pressure @ cold idle, warm?
6) Been Dynotuned?
Difficult to discern precisely...IMO I hear both exhaust leaks & valve-train noise(s).
-1) Flange(s) pictured indicate Carbon streaks (edited pic. below).
-2) Flanges not parallel to each other nor perpendicular to the shorty Header/downstream exhaust piping Ball & Socket joint. Upper bolt @ angle to meet Header collector flange- incorrect Pipe flange? Hard to seal if not the same pattern..
I’d pull and clean/repair if joint(s) damaged, reseat/equally align & re-torque these & others like it. Apply a non hardening exhaust sealant. Never seize on all Bolts & spark Plug threads (below).
Doubtful, but if your Heads have the smog pump W/AIR threaded passages front & back- pull the Plugs/Inserts & reseal threads (high temp RTV)/re-install.
Header gaskets replaced, re-torque these
once no major leaks verified. Run your hands around after cold startup & feel for escaping Gases. If you find a leak, run a straightedge along the Header flange, ensure it’s flat.
Check your Spark Plug sealing surfaces are correct for the Head(s) countersink or counterbore (Washer type) & seated/torqued into the head correctly, may be losing there.
Once you verify it can’t be.cleared after reading entire article, i’d Perform -3).
-3) Valvetrain noise, recheck your lash settings, verify everything remained tight in the valvetrain for the drivers side bank (know it’s a pain in the arse, pull the upper, but if you also agree noise remains in the valvetrain- should Check it). Don’t re-install the cover until it’s been run & all has been checked.
As I’d mentioned, these lifters have the predisposition for running louder to handle higher Spring loads, the more viscosity and Zinc you can safely get in, the quieter it’ll run. Plunger travel is around 0.125-0.187 for Lunati’s/Crower’s more radical Link Hydraulic types, plunger piston to Lifter body clearances larger than typical to allow viscosity to maintain solid @ 6,500-6,700 RPM’s under high Spring loads vs.”Dog-bone” retained counterparts.
You need to run what you can without risking too much viscosity for the Pump/Bearing clearances, etc..
Pushrods from Lunati as well? The more aggressive Hydraulic rollers run the quietest with all their components matched to Mfg.
EB0992B3-8A8C-4401-BAF8-A67A71ECD495.jpeg
Pic showing Carbon streaking @ joint indicating leakage.
Good luck!
- John
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Hi,
Well- sorry to hear a noise remains, glad to hear that #4E’s pumping up for you, however. Additives help, used correctly. Can you pls.provide a little Data Re:
1) Cam your running, Heads.
2) Oil Wt./type you’re running, how many miles on the Motor.
3) C.Ratio? Octane being run?
4) Timing advance at idle? Does noise improve as engine temp increases?
5) Oil Pressure @ cold idle, warm?
6) Been Dynotuned?
Difficult to discern precisely...IMO I hear both exhaust leaks & valve-train noise(s).
-1) Flange(s) pictured indicate Carbon streaks (edited pic. below).
-2) Flanges not parallel to each other nor perpendicular to the shorty Header/downstream exhaust piping Ball & Socket joint. Upper bolt @ angle to meet Header collector flange- incorrect Pipe flange? Hard to seal if not the same pattern..
I’d pull and clean/repair if joint(s) damaged, reseat/equally align & re-torque these & others like it. Apply a non hardening exhaust sealant. Never seize on all Bolts & spark Plug threads (below).
Doubtful, but if your Heads have the smog pump W/AIR threaded passages front & back- pull the Plugs/Inserts & reseal threads (high temp RTV)/re-install.
Header gaskets replaced, re-torque these
once no major leaks verified. Run your hands around after cold startup & feel for escaping Gases. If you find a leak, run a straightedge along the Header flange, ensure it’s flat.
Check your Spark Plug sealing surfaces are correct for the Head(s) countersink or counterbore (Washer type) & seated/torqued into the head correctly, may be losing there.
Once you verify it can’t be.cleared after reading entire article, i’d Perform -3).
-3) Valvetrain noise, recheck your lash settings, verify everything remained tight in the valvetrain for the drivers side bank (know it’s a pain in the arse, pull the upper, but if you also agree noise remains in the valvetrain- should Check it). Don’t re-install the cover until it’s been run & all has been checked.
As I’d mentioned, these lifters have the predisposition for running louder to handle higher Spring loads, the more viscosity and Zinc you can safely get in, the quieter it’ll run. Plunger travel is around 0.125-0.187 for Lunati’s/Crower’s more radical Link Hydraulic types, plunger piston to Lifter body clearances larger than typical to allow viscosity to maintain solid @ 6,500-6,700 RPM’s under high Spring loads vs.”Dog-bone” retained counterparts.
You need to run what you can without risking too much viscosity for the Pump/Bearing clearances, etc..
Pushrods from Lunati as well? The more aggressive Hydraulic rollers run the quietest with all their components matched to Mfg.
EB0992B3-8A8C-4401-BAF8-A67A71ECD495.jpeg
Pic showing Carbon streaking @ joint indicating leakage.
Good luck!
- John
Cam is .608 valve lift 236/244 with 112lsa

Afr205 heads no egr ports

10w-30 300 miles changed oil after 15 mins and again at 200 miles

10.7:1 93octane

Idle timing tried 17-25 no difference

Oil pressure 60cold 35-40 warm

Not dunno tuned, running Holley sniper it’s not optimal yet but I know it’s good enough to not cause an issue

The uneven flanges you’re seeing are the back side of the H pipe. I did have some exhaust leaks initially but there are none now, I’ve replaced the header gaskets already and found nothing showing a leak. I’ve had the car on a lift and checked excessively for leaks.

I’m going to pull the intake today and see if there’s something obvious with the lifters, if not I guess I’ll pull the heads too and see if I can find anything. I don’t want to keep running it like this because I’m afraid it will find me
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Cam is .608 valve lift 236/244 with 112lsa

Afr205 heads no egr ports

10w-30 300 miles changed oil after 15 mins and again at 200 miles

10.7:1 93octane

Idle timing tried 17-25 no difference

Oil pressure 60cold 35-40 warm

Not dunno tuned, running Holley sniper it’s not optimal yet but I know it’s good enough to not cause an issue

The uneven flanges you’re seeing are the back side of the H pipe. I did have some exhaust leaks initially but there are none now, I’ve replaced the header gaskets already and found nothing showing a leak. I’ve had the car on a lift and checked excessively for leaks.

I’m going to pull the intake today and see if there’s something obvious with the lifters, if not I guess I’ll pull the heads too and see if I can find anything. I don’t want to keep running it like this because I’m afraid it will find me

So I pulled the lifters today and found 3 with damage I can’t understand how it got there, one of the lifters with damage is the one I had trouble getting to pump up. Don’t see anything on the cam. I already have a new pair of lifter on the way because I believe the noise is coming from #4E. Is this superficial damage or should I replace the other 2 pair???
154805D3-D7F6-404B-9A20-4229445F04B4.jpeg
94A07B66-0B2E-4BBB-9090-3FDD5FB5229B.jpeg
8B0ABCF7-4779-4C96-AE68-5A0B444E10AE.jpeg
 

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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
So I pulled the lifters today and found 3 with damage I can’t understand how it got there, one of the lifters with damage is the one I had trouble getting to pump up. Don’t see anything on the cam. I already have a new pair of lifter on the way because I believe the noise is coming from #4E. Is this superficial damage or should I replace the other 2 pair???
154805D3-D7F6-404B-9A20-4229445F04B4.jpeg
94A07B66-0B2E-4BBB-9090-3FDD5FB5229B.jpeg
8B0ABCF7-4779-4C96-AE68-5A0B444E10AE.jpeg
Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open [email protected] Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging via Compression test..
-You may consider running the quieter operating Lifter alternative. Springs for a 6,000-6,300 RPM Cam do not require this much lifter (unless your in that range, continuously) but need be based on exact Springs as installed, whether it’s a Roller Block, or you’re running a reduced Base circle Cam design.
- Lash Caps are useful if you have the area to apply to your specific setup.
-10-40Wt May also help in this effort, hinging on your Rod & Main clearances.
- Additives with Zinc, PTFE.
1) To verify your Lifters are not losing oil when reaching the top of the lifter bore, depressurizing it. Rotate Motor & get a Lifter to Lobe peak, then Base Circle & spin Pump w/cordless Drill w/Hex Pump drive CCW to verify.
As initially you’d pressed down on #4E @ Rocker with no resistance. This was a 100% indication that the valve lifter is leaking down too fast or not retaining oil from the engine.

Excess Valvetrain noise; typical:
1)improper lash settings.
2) Loose or misaligned Valvetrain parts, binding.
3) Interference of Rocker ass’y/Stud.
4) Rocker trunnion upside down.
5) Valvecover to Rocker interference.
6) The weight/type of oil/contamination of, or the oil supply itself.
7) Excess oil in the crankcase causing foaming and aeration lifters experience random depressurization.
8) Rocker Geometry incorrect.
9) Raw Fuel excessive, gas washing Cylinders & lessening effective Oil viscosity.

-Slow leakdown will generally cause the engine to be noisy only when cold when Oil viscosity is high. Whereas fast leak-down presents as a noisy valve-train when the engine is warm. Fast leakdown will also occur if the ball-check in the lifter fails to seal.
I strongly believe if your Springs are what I anticipate, and you pulled away from the current lifters, you’d be just as good without noise & retain performance.
The pinnacle Hydraulic lifters won’t run above 6,700RPM’s & designs to push that envelope results in only +300 RPM’s across the board, as it’s not only the Lifter, it’s the concept that limits itself & becomes risky with P/V issues.
6,500+ RPM’s is invariably Solid Lifter Cam territory.
Good luck!
John
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open [email protected] Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging
Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open [email protected] Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging via Compression test..
-You may consider running the quieter operating Lifter alternative. Springs for a 6,000-6,300 RPM Cam do not require this much lifter (unless your in that range, continuously) but need be based on exact Springs as installed, whether it’s a Roller Block, or you’re running a reduced Base circle Cam design.
- Lash Caps are useful if you have the area to apply to your specific setup.
-10-40Wt May also help in this effort, hinging on your Rod & Main clearances.
- Additives with Zinc, PTFE.
1) To verify your Lifters are not losing oil when reaching the top of the lifter bore, depressurizing it. Rotate Motor & get a Lifter to Lobe peak, then Base Circle & spin Pump w/cordless Drill w/Hex Pump drive CCW to verify.
As initially you’d pressed down on #4E @ Rocker with no resistance. This was a 100% indication that the valve lifter is leaking down too fast or not retaining oil from the engine.

Excess Valvetrain noise; typical:
1)improper lash settings.
2) Loose or misaligned Valvetrain parts, binding.
3) Interference of Rocker ass’y/Stud.
4) Rocker trunnion upside down.
5) Valvecover to Rocker interference.
6) The weight/type of oil/contamination of, or the oil supply itself.
7) Excess oil in the crankcase causing foaming and aeration lifters experience random depressurization.
8) Rocker Geometry incorrect.
9) Raw Fuel excessive, gas washing Cylinders & lessening effective Oil viscosity.

-Slow leakdown will generally cause the engine to be noisy only when cold when Oil viscosity is high. Whereas fast leak-down presents as a noisy valve-train when the engine is warm. Fast leakdown will also occur if the ball-check in the lifter fails to seal.
I strongly believe if your Springs are what I anticipate, and you pulled away from the current lifters, you’d be just as good without noise & retain performance.
The pinnacle Hydraulic lifters won’t run above 6,700RPM’s & designs to push that envelope results in only +300 RPM’s across the board, as it’s not only the Lifter, it’s the concept that limits itself & becomes risky with P/V issues.
6,500+ RPM’s is invariably Solid Lifter Cam territory.
Good luck!
John
Very detailed response thank you, I showed the damaged lifters to lunati and got back “We saw the pictures. We have no idea either. I’m speculating but if the wheel was getting pushed sideways hard enoughand/or if there was hammering going, on the loads can do some amazing things.”

After having all the lifters our for a couple days and cleaning them with brake clean that #4E valve is collapsed again (the only one) I’ve checked the oil pressure with mechanical gauge and it shows the same. The sewing machine noise I’m getting could be from the poly lock kissing the rockers, I initially measured the push rod length and didn’t pay attention to the clearance. Pushrods are currently at 8.050 with a .43 sweep. Smallest I can get but obviously the clearance is an issue. Going to 7.9 gives me .050 sweep and it gets larger as I move down at the 7.9 length I have .011 clearance on the polylock. I’m thinking that’s the leaser of the 2 evils at this point. I will be replacing the lifter that won’t pump up and I’m 90% sure that is the sound I’ve been chasing
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
Very detailed response thank you, I showed the damaged lifters to lunati and got back “We saw the pictures. We have no idea either. I’m speculating but if the wheel was getting pushed sideways hard enoughand/or if there was hammering going, on the loads can do some amazing things.”

After having all the lifters our for a couple days and cleaning them with brake clean that #4E valve is collapsed again (the only one) I’ve checked the oil pressure with mechanical gauge and it shows the same. The sewing machine noise I’m getting could be from the poly lock kissing the rockers, I initially measured the push rod length and didn’t pay attention to the clearance. Pushrods are currently at 8.050 with a .43 sweep. Smallest I can get but obviously the clearance is an issue. Going to 7.9 gives me .050 sweep and it gets larger as I move down at the 7.9 length I have .011 clearance on the polylock. I’m thinking that’s the leaser of the 2 evils at this point. I will be replacing the lifter that won’t pump up and I’m 90% sure that is the sound I’ve been chasing
Hi,
Very good, you’re absolutely welcome!
I’d hoped pressing importance of setup & geometrics, initially would get you to re-review things, wasn’t trying to be ‘rude dude’, lol! Demeanor is difficult to interpret or convey via text.
#1 cause of wrecked Motors is sparked off by incorrect valve-train setup, I run into different variables of such several times a year. I’ll throw typical Pic’s up of stackup error wreaking havoc. Had one actually eat the Cam Bearings, seize them, shear the Cam
This boiled down to either lubrication, Valve-train setup error, a failed component within. Turned out to be 2 of 3, glad to hear no engine damage occurred in the process, & Lunati is taking care of their part.
The lifters of type notoriously make a bit more noise, but not quite as much as the Video. lol!
You really not need be as concerned about sweep width, you could stretch that figure to 0.062, emphasis lies within the clearances, Valve Stem sweep centerline equidistant throughout, from zero lift, to full Valve lift, back to zero.
You want a minimum of 0.060 between Valvespring coils at full Valve lift, testing all with a Solid Roller Lifter physically identical to the Hydraulic’s being run.
Lateral, Rocker tip to Stem- if your (1) PC.Guides cannot achieve reasonable lateral centerline, (2) PC. Guides are available, Isky, Comp, etc., allowing lateral adjustment of each Pushrod & swinging Rocker into proper alignment, individually.
They fit together tongue & groove to achieve the holding ability of both Studs. For full Clamp-force, Install, align, scribe, chamfer, bench weld. Not required to weld, but many do.
Just keep that Oil clean, should be just fine.
Any questions, feel free!
- John

Below are the results reaped by running Explorer GT-40P Heads with stock Springs, (Coil-bind 0.450-0.470) adding a E-303 Cam (0.498 Lift) & 1.7 Ratio Rockers (0.527 Lift).
Guy complained it wouldn’t rev over 3K....
302E74E5-5C2B-4614-B09F-8835105AAFD2.jpeg8378E4F1-2AE2-4ABE-A94D-5BD0DEDBAC3A.jpeg20960C13-5298-477E-BA0C-1FCCBC2CA7D5.jpeg79B8F08B-E761-48BF-ABB4-6C250691DFD6.jpeg81F30C0C-2428-48DD-8A41-56CF65647633.jpeg
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
I cannot go with a shorter pushrod.
I’ve checked every length from 7.4 - 8.0 in .100 increments. Clearly something isn’t right but I can’t seem to find it

7.4 starts off of the valve stem on the intake side
7.5 . .080 sweep
7.6. .125 sweep
7.7 .080 sweep
7.8. .073 sweep
7.850 .060 sweep this one has no clearance for the poly lock still
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
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38
Massachusetts
Hi, Let’s break this down. I have a lack of clarity when you’re referring to the “Poly lock”, are you referring to the Rocker’s locking set-Screw Stud adjuster, or are you referring to the Poly Valve Seals?
Once that’s cleared up, can re-initiate Geometry step by step for you.
- John
 

HotFox

10 Year Member
Jan 5, 2009
831
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SE Michigan
I fail to see any issues those pictures show on how the lifters are bad? Upon break-in this hazing on the roller is due to metal in the oil that was between the roller and the lobe. If things were not clean and even if they are upon start up iron from the cylinder walls, rings mixed with bearing material and piston material will contaminate the oil quickly. I really think it was a issue with a lifter/lifters not pumping up. I cant really follow what you mean on the polly lock clearance issue.
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Check the video in post #1 of the lifter that keeps bleeding down. The pictures weren’t to show the wheels check the body damage around the wheels. I’ll include pictures of the polylocks and the top of the body where those male contact as well
 

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Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
My tip sweep is .045 my pushrod is 8.050 the trunnion to tip is 90* to the valve stem at midlift (.304) if I go to a 7.7 pushrod the sweep becomes .080 and it gets larger from there.
 
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HotFox

10 Year Member
Jan 5, 2009
831
452
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SE Michigan
Ahhhhhh. Ok well I would get a new set of lifters then, I really thought Morels were a good lifter. It's hard to say how hard your making contact with the rocker and adjuster since this is two hard metals. Not a ton of experience with this setup, I run shafts and more lift with my set up and would try to sway anyone who is over .550 to do the same. I would not sacrifice geometry just to eliminate the contact. If it were me I would consider releaving the rocker or adjuster to get your clearence.
 

Sk8trfred

Member
Feb 27, 2007
40
6
18
MA
Ahhhhhh. Ok well I would get a new set of lifters then, I really thought Morels were a good lifter. It's hard to say how hard your making contact with the rocker and adjuster since this is two hard metals. Not a ton of experience with this setup, I run shafts and more lift with my set up and would try to sway anyone who is over .550 to do the same. I would not sacrifice geometry just to eliminate the contact. If it were me I would consider releaving the rocker or adjuster to get your clearence.
That's my plan for tomorrow. going to try to make some clearance, seems to be the response I keep getting. thanks
 
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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
300
33
38
Massachusetts
Hi, Thanks for clearing that up. The Lifter issue, you’re good on that now.
I look for 0.125-0.187” between the Rocker slots and the Locking adjusters. If it’s touching them now, imagine that at 6,000 RPM’s. Something WILL give.
There’s both 0.375 & 0.437” Stud kits, each having a smaller OD locking adjuster, or a larger OD locking adjuster. The tall style for Girdles 0.50 - 0.75 clamp Diameter offers both lower diameter(s). Haven’t run the Poly’s you have, always ARP’s.w/Set screws-as-is.
Some Mfg’s have narrow & wide Slot Rockers, that’s where the Small/large diameters really matter, but may gain you the clearance you require. Yours appear to be the larger diameter locks, part # supports that.
I wouldn’t turn them down on a Lathe, nor Mill the Rocker Slot. I’d run the smaller diameter Stud locks, that should gain you 1/8”, 0.062 per side. If you can gain that, and your clear- good. If not, I’d run different Rockers. Crane’s Gold series, or Comp’s Ultra Pro Magnum’s. The latter seems to make for a quieter valvetrain, it’s Steel Vs. Aluminum, high end bests that handle mega lift (0.800+) with resilience I’ve run are Crower’s ultra enduro’s, ultimate being Harland Sharps- $$
Considering Spring loads inherent with >0.600 lift, you may wish to consider Stud Girdles. Not absolutely essential, yet with your Build it seems to be a good idea, making changes towards longevity now will pay for itself later.
Good luck!!
-John
 

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