So I pulled the lifters today and found 3 with damage I can’t understand how it got there, one of the lifters with damage is the one I had trouble getting to pump up. Don’t see anything on the cam. I already have a new pair of lifter on the way because I believe the noise is coming from #4E. Is this superficial damage or should I replace the other 2 pair???
Hi, Thanks for the details, I now understand what you’re running. Valve-train Vid. posted, sounded almost solid flat Tappet..You’re correct, problem will “Find you”.
Think Lifter selection plays a large role, here. Marking on Lifter pic’s posted outweighed by other anomalies viewed. Quite possibly occurred as result of being “lazy” to pump-up.
Take the opportunity to see how well your Pushrods seat in the Lifter Cup, and Rocker. Also look for Pushrod/Block contact proof marking, as well as any other gross misalignment within each I & E Valve, binding points. Verify Springs are correct, look at Geometry; wear on Valve Stems.
EXTREMELY surprised to hear LUNATI directed you to run Sea foam.... They should be re-imbursing you for that #2 Lifter, if not all requiring replacing like your 1st Pic..
Are you running a Thrust Assembly (Cam button) to prevent Cam “walk”, whether Bronze, a Roller Bearing Thrust stackup?
ABSOLUTELY...replace any Lifters that are problematic, are questionable, have excessive lateral Roller endplay, burrs & chipping (Zoom in on Pic #1, Roller slot burrs, chips). Show these to the MFG.
Cam lobes look good? Your Oil Pressure numbers are good. Run a Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge, most reliable.
You may not realize measured pressure @ Lifter galleys, however. There are a few methods of boosting top end Oil Pressure via restriction Galleys placed in strategic positions. If it comes to that, i’ll Elaborate further..
More causes, pressure drop:
1) Oil Galley plug(s) loose or drilled.
2) Partially clogged Galley.
3) Lifter to lifter bore clearance excessive/out of specifications. Non-concentric.
4) Lifter puking oil out bore @ top or bottom of travel.
Suggestions:
-I imagine you’re either running a non-Roller Block, or roller but decided to use Morel’s due to high RPM/Valve spring pressures.(?)
What is seated Spring pressure(s), Open pressure@ Full Valve Lift?
-You will experience slightly more noise due to the Lifters being run, preload a full turn or more sometimes applies, engine off- hot. You don’t want a Valve hanging open, yet carefully exceeding service limits work to stifle things, double verifying afterwards a Valve isn’t hanging via Compression test..
-You may consider running the quieter operating Lifter alternative. Springs for a 6,000-6,300 RPM Cam do not require this much lifter (unless your in that range, continuously) but need be based on exact Springs as installed, whether it’s a Roller Block, or you’re running a reduced Base circle Cam design.
- Lash Caps are useful if you have the area to apply to your specific setup.
-10-40Wt May also help in this effort, hinging on your Rod & Main clearances.
- Additives with Zinc, PTFE.
1) To verify your Lifters are not losing oil when reaching the top of the lifter bore, depressurizing it. Rotate Motor & get a Lifter to Lobe peak, then Base Circle & spin Pump w/cordless Drill w/Hex Pump drive CCW to verify.
As initially you’d pressed down on #4E @ Rocker with no resistance. This was a 100% indication that the valve lifter is leaking down too fast or not retaining oil from the engine.
Excess Valvetrain noise; typical:
1)improper lash settings.
2) Loose or misaligned Valvetrain parts, binding.
3) Interference of Rocker ass’y/Stud.
4) Rocker trunnion upside down.
5) Valvecover to Rocker interference.
6) The weight/type of oil/contamination of, or the oil supply itself.
7) Excess oil in the crankcase causing foaming and aeration lifters experience random depressurization.
8) Rocker Geometry incorrect.
9) Raw Fuel excessive, gas washing Cylinders & lessening effective Oil viscosity.
-Slow leakdown will generally cause the engine to be noisy only when cold when Oil viscosity is high. Whereas fast leak-down presents as a noisy valve-train when the engine is warm. Fast leakdown will also occur if the ball-check in the lifter fails to seal.
I strongly believe if your Springs are what I anticipate, and you pulled away from the current lifters, you’d be just as good without noise & retain performance.
The pinnacle Hydraulic lifters won’t run above 6,700RPM’s & designs to push that envelope results in only +300 RPM’s across the board, as it’s not only the Lifter, it’s the concept that limits itself & becomes risky with P/V issues.
6,500+ RPM’s is invariably Solid Lifter Cam territory.
Good luck!
John