Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by Pokageek, May 4, 2007.

  1. I'm not sure I follow your mouse trap reference.

    Demand is always in the equation. (It is more difficult to see/explain they way it works when dealing with something like oil, as opposed to "widgets").

    If someone did say "whoops out of oil" and go against the overwhelming demand for oil, the price would most definitely go up, to a point where the demand is so high that the people holding the oil could no longer justify holding the oil at that price. Then they inject said oil into the market at the high price and the prices would fall.

    If someone wants to hold oil from the market, that is their prerogative. They are taking a risk doing so.

    EDIT* If there are no comparable replacements for oil (and there are none at this point in time at the same cost level) the price of oil could easily increase until a replacement source of energy (electric, solar, etc..) is an economically viable alternative. Money (cost) drives everything.
  2. Ok, but according to the article, that is exactly what opec does.

    MOUSE TRAP = They say whoops outta oil. They (opec and perhaps oil "men" tied into opec, increase the price quickly.

    Your market example follows as a result..because one guy is more desperate for oil than the other..back to what I said b4 , someone is controlling that demand.. OPEC and I think several not mentioning names have a hand in it (they are tied into OPEC). That's not really a free market..that is a controlled market.
  3. OPEC and "the politicians" control the supply. Consumers control the demand.

    I never said it was a free market. I think that if it was a truely free market, gas prices would be much HIGHER. But it can't really ever be a free market because of the high cost of pulling oil out of the ground.
  4. I paid $3.69 today for 91 a couple hours ago :bs: I didn't even realize how much the prices have gone up until today. This is rough. I sincerely dislike politics, yet it is ingrained into every portion of our lives to some extent. Unfortunately for us gas guzzler Mustang guys, there are a lot of politics surrounding oil.
    - Justin
  5. This post sums up my entire argument if you get tired of reading

    Yes Red9250. The emphasis I am stressing is the part in the article that says the SUPPLY starts it all.. meaning - OPEC and it's oil "men" tied to them decide they want the price to rise so that they can make more money, so they tighten the oil supply which causes the demand to increase beyond the supply. Does that make more sense?

    Also, I personally think the oil co's do the same thing that OPEC does (which in some cases I think they are tied in with OPEC in this matter).

  6. And according to my reading you can THANK california politicians refining standards for a little higher price THAN (sp edit) everyone else in the country is paying. They want even less emissions out of cars so they go beyond the NORMAL "refinement process" and it costs you more at the pump.

    It is my understanding that a GREAT amout of the h-carbons contributing to the climate change everyone is worried about is caused by the coal lants and factories more than cars but correct me if I am off on that.

    ALSO, ETHANOL is what liticians are "touting." Because of the machining it takes to get it to the point we can actually run in our cars, it HURTS the atmosphere EVEN more than regular gas! Yet pliticians are PROMOTING it. Explain that? :shrug:

    We are paying MORE for gas because of this as well. So we are paying more for the ethanol mixture that politicians voted in but it is worse for the atmoshphere! :bs:
  7. $2.75 on base ans $2.79 every where else
  8. I went to cali last week and I had to put like 20 bucks of gas in a gas station that was 4.30 for 89!!!!!!!!!!!!! I put enough just to make it to Indio, California!!!! Thats crazy!!!!!!!
  9. Took the words right outta my mouth!:hail2:
  10. Hey,
    This is a problem for all Americans Period!!!:flag:

    Every consumer good that is shipped or has to be moved from point A to B to C from the producer to the consumer takes fuel, somewhere along the way, or all the way. The shirts on our backs, the food in our kitchens, the materials for the buildings we live and work in, and most business supplies ( books, paper, computers, chairs) & employees (who drive to work) all contributes to fuel consumption. That has always been the case. That is not a theory, that's fact.

    Just about All consumer goods have been on a truck or train or boat or plane, they all take fuel. I completely understand the Supply Vs Demand Economics of this situation, however, there is a such thing as" Fair Market Value". The price of gas is not "Fair", and has NOT increased naturally and proportionally to the demand. It has spiked incredibly out of control, I hate to say it, Since 2000, When George W and Cheney got into power. It is no accident. :nonono: Just go back and check it out for yourself!

    In a well running Capitalist Society, competition keeps prices were they should be. There is no competition within the oil companies, they are Price Fixing , which is certainly Immoral, if not Illegal! In every other industry, where there is competition, the consumer wins, and retailers still make a good profit. That's how it used to be with the gas!!! Too few Oil companies, and they are all buddies w/ the Bush Administration. You can't have a FOX guard the hen house, now can you. :rolleyes:

    Unless you are a wealthy, this effects you and your bottom line directly. Damn near everything you buy is costing more than it should because of the gas prices driving up the distribution costs. This is not ONLY costing us at the pumps, it's costing us more ACROSS THE BOARD!!! :( For most of us, our wages aren't catching up to the abnormal Inflation caused by Sinful Greediness of the OIL Cartell.:notnice:
  11. " there is a such thing as" Fair Market Value". The price of gas is not "Fair""

    Fair market value has NOTHING to do with "fair" in the manner that you are using it. Fair market value refers to the price that the end user will pay for an item or commodity. It is what "the market will bear". There are still plenty of people using gasoline. So much so, that there are lines to pay $3.09 for regular, here. The market, in my opinion, could still bear a higher price for it.

    While it IS true that gas prices aren't going up at the same rate that everything else is, Europe has been over $3.00 a gallon for almost 20 years. I think they are paying upwards of $5-$6 a gallon, now. (They DO buy their fuel in liters, though. I'm sure if we changed to liters, the conspiracy people would warn that the Bush Administration changed to liters so that we would see a lower price per unit, at the gas pumps.)

    I'll ask again, since no one touched it...Who are you anti-Bush people going to blame, when he is no longer in office? Well? Is he going to remain responsible for EVERYTHING bad that happens, even after his Presidency is over? Has anyone told you that he can't run for president EVER again? Why is there so much vitriol out there for a guy that is beginning the twilight of his last term? My GF is "Liberal" and hates Bush, the reason: "the smirk on his face when he is giving a speach". WHAT?! Please tell me that we don't vote for and support a president because he has a nice smile!!!!???? Or because he is good at giving speaches!!!!???? If that's the case, there is truly no hope for this country. I told you that I am becoming "no big fan" of Bush, but he did come in and do the things he said he was going to do. (For the most part.) At least he didn't turn the White House into "party central", like the former "president" did.

    Second rant, over. That's all.
  12. Does anyone know where you can find statistics on how many vehicles were on the road say in the 60's-80's versus now and what the average yearly miles driven were? I'd be interested to see how many vehicles were on the road during the "baby boomer" age when cars were lucky to get 10-15mpg versus the amount of vehicles on the road now that get 20-50mpg. I don't doubt that there are more cars on the road now, but they are also a lot more fuel efficient than they were years ago. This to me would help show if the demand really has gone up for gas and gas alone.

    Like I said, I don't know the answers but I'd like to find them.

    As a moderator I ask that you all please keep the discussion civil, this is a hot topic that could get out of hand quickly, but it could also provide some different view points and considerations on the subject that are beneficial to understanding this problem.

    The next time you question the price of gas, also ask yourself what are YOU doing to limit your energy consumption?
  13. Demand does not increase beyond supply. When the oil supply is tightened the price goes up. Demand stays the same. But those who demand gas ONLY at a price of 2.89 (people with low incomes) cannot afford to buy gas at 3.19; therefore, they no longer demand gas OR they demand much less gas.
  14. within the past week it's gone from 2.79 to 2.83 to 2.89 to 2.92 to 2.98 :mad:
  15. Once again, if the market was actually a true "free market" the price of gas would be much higher in the US than it is today.

    Also, Gas prices will never go back to what we were used to only 5 or so years ago. They will continue to go up no matter what party in in office.

    Just a side note: How can everything bad be a product of Bush and everything good not be a product of Bush? Just look at the stock market over the last couple of weeks. When it is down, it's Bush's fault, and when it is up.....?
  16. Like I said it before, this is an American problem, not a Republican or Democrat problem. The last time I checked, we all buy and use gas!!!!

    I don't have a problem w/ the Stock market, and I agree w/ you that it is going in the right direction. My ranting is more about the Oil co's than about Bush. Sure he has a 29% approval rating as our President, I'm sure Clinton's ratings were quite low, w/ the Monica Lewinski scandal, but that's another Show!

    Bush, however, is heavily connected to the Oil Companies, and could do something about this. But they are his "Base" and his buddies, so w/ respect to the Price of Gas he is turning his back on ALL of the people he has sworn to serve. Having said that, the TRUE CULPRITS, AGAIN, are the oil companies, they are making record profits regardless of the price, just look back 6 or 7 months ago, They are the main ones doing this, because there is no competition in this market. :nonono: I guess in the end, all we can do is to be very frugal w/ gas consumption and drive economy cars for D.D., use Our beloved mustangs on weekends, and for "Special Events".
  17. The U.S. paying 3.** for gas isn't all that bad when you have England paying like 4.** or 5.**. As for who's to blame, Exxon made $9 billion in profits in the FIRST QUARTER
  18. :shrug:

    Would you feel better if I posted some lyrics from "Simple Man'?

    I dont care to listen to what other people believe, only the politics themselves. My believes are my own.
  19. Some is inflation...that is natural.

    It is NOT the president's fault. I do not care who or what party the president is from. It is a checks and balances government. Those that do not know a little about the economy easily blame the president because they do not know the economy.

    Try reading this:

    Keep in minds, gas prices are going to go up as a whole...and keep going up for as long as we live. So will minimum wage, etc. It typically evens it self out to equilibrium.

    It makes me laugh when the United States economy has a problem, they blame ONE person, the president.
  20. Thanks 5spd but I already added that link on the last page although no one paid attention to it. It claims that OPEC and those tied to it basically decides they want to make more money and the tighten the supply raising prices. edit ] why not blame the president...the man has MAJOR control over the economy. Am I the only one that understands that? His is after all the president, not, Tom Green ,lol. But yes, we cannot blame everything on the president. I got your point. But even congress says the president can do something about gas prices. So I can't be that far off.

    "Demand does not increase beyond supply. When the oil supply is tightened the price goes up. Demand stays the same."

    Yes and no Red. We are saying the same thing but I still think you are missing my point how perhaps not "demand" but the MARKET for gas goes higher when OPEC and in my o' oil men decide to "tighten" the market. That's the entire reason that drives your (well said BTW) market example. OPEC and the oil industry can RAISE profits at WILL.

    Demand is ALWAYS changing, it is not staying the same. Demand DOES increase beyond supply. Just look at when gas stations run out of gas..Are you following my logic? (not shouting - caps for emphasis only). Of course you can agree or disagree.

    On the Pres? Last thing I will say. I AM REPUBLICAN but I don't trust George Bush. He is an oil man and understands how it works. I simply saying I think he could take more steps toward helping the market for hurting people. IF HE HAS THE CHOICE between profiting his pocket and his constituants, it is my personal opinion that he will cave to the pressure of his constituants AND his pocket b4 the American in need. That is my opinion. As to other matters, I think he has done some things right. ....I can remember what though,,.lol. I liked Ronald Regan much better personally. And I didn't like Clinton but I am getting off topic.