Skidzz
Tinkerbell
You must have decent dealerships where you are. Around here, when the 03 cobra came out, IF you could even find one around here, it was at least $3000 over the sticker.Uncle Meat said:
GT500 vs Vette
- Thread starter Stang|ess
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QuickCapri83
New Member
Regardless. Mustang is a mustang, vette is a vette. It does'nt really matter, if you're so upset, look at the Ford GT, simple as that, if $$ means nothing to you.
Plain and simple, the mustang is a car that everyone can afford and enjoy, for years, as yeah, they do freakin last long. The vette is an entirely different car, built for the track, although expensive as hell, I can sit here all day naming german cars that will **** on the C6 easily, on any track, and for the price.
Mustang = Everyone can enjoy without three mortgages on their house.
Vette = A sleeper that will spend near all of it's time in 6th gear at cruise speed with an ******* behind the wheel imagining himself cooler than he already thinks he is, or, it sits in the garage. To me it's like...who would buy a 75k suv then take the damn thing offroading? It seems like the same situation here. Just a bit different tho, that's another topic....
No way am I paying the parts prices for a vette if I break it, whereas a stang, I can blow my engine in two weeks it's back on the road, done, period.
Oh did anyone mention how many of the ppl here can **** no a C6 anyways? Is'nt part of the fun taking something and making it unique? Making it better? If both cars were perfect, if all stangs and camaro's and everything ever made were perfect, we would'nt even have this forum. Think about that. That car is to get women in bed, and, to spin out at the race track, it's all it's good for, yeah....I watch alot of racing.
Ya know what, forget my rant. Whatever happened to being the underdog? Is'nt that what made mustangs so fun? With just a little effort let out a beast, atleast for me, that's how i've always looked at it. Buying the perfect car just doesnt feel right to me...I dunno, and with absolute honesty, yeah, i'm very pissed at shelby for a pathetic boat of a car, but what else can we expect....And it's not like there wont be people buying the C6 and bolting addy's and doing all the stuff we like, so there's gonna be good competition, it's just that, i'd rather start at the back, and work my way forward....Hence the era of the import???? Anyone?? Hello?
Plain and simple, the mustang is a car that everyone can afford and enjoy, for years, as yeah, they do freakin last long. The vette is an entirely different car, built for the track, although expensive as hell, I can sit here all day naming german cars that will **** on the C6 easily, on any track, and for the price.
Mustang = Everyone can enjoy without three mortgages on their house.
Vette = A sleeper that will spend near all of it's time in 6th gear at cruise speed with an ******* behind the wheel imagining himself cooler than he already thinks he is, or, it sits in the garage. To me it's like...who would buy a 75k suv then take the damn thing offroading? It seems like the same situation here. Just a bit different tho, that's another topic....
No way am I paying the parts prices for a vette if I break it, whereas a stang, I can blow my engine in two weeks it's back on the road, done, period.
Oh did anyone mention how many of the ppl here can **** no a C6 anyways? Is'nt part of the fun taking something and making it unique? Making it better? If both cars were perfect, if all stangs and camaro's and everything ever made were perfect, we would'nt even have this forum. Think about that. That car is to get women in bed, and, to spin out at the race track, it's all it's good for, yeah....I watch alot of racing.
Ya know what, forget my rant. Whatever happened to being the underdog? Is'nt that what made mustangs so fun? With just a little effort let out a beast, atleast for me, that's how i've always looked at it. Buying the perfect car just doesnt feel right to me...I dunno, and with absolute honesty, yeah, i'm very pissed at shelby for a pathetic boat of a car, but what else can we expect....And it's not like there wont be people buying the C6 and bolting addy's and doing all the stuff we like, so there's gonna be good competition, it's just that, i'd rather start at the back, and work my way forward....Hence the era of the import???? Anyone?? Hello?
how many german cars, honestly, can you think of that will outperform the C6 for around the same price? the S4 will outhandle it, but not in the straights. quite possibly the M3, but again, not in the straights. what am i missing?QuickCapri83 said:
dud, did you just compare Ford's mentality to that of a ricers? not coolQuickCapri83 said:
Dorsai
New Member
DerekStangGT said:
Solid rear axles are about saving money, that's it. Any IRS that's made properly will control wheel hop and be just as durable as a solid axle while providing much better handling as you sorta said. The GT500 having a solid axle is about nothing but cost control by Ford bean counters. When cost is not a limiting factor IRS will always be used...hence no solid axle Ferrari or Porsche sports cars even though they typicaly far exceed Mustangs in hp. I'm not shy about saying it, the worse part of a Mustang is the ride and handling genraly due to the solid axle design faults. But then again if I could afford an F430 I would'nt be posting in these forums
_jb_
New Member
Stang|ess said:
I didn't know that. What was wrong with those blocks? I don't remember reading any topics that said the block broke.
QuickCapri83
New Member
DerekStangGT said:
You dont get my point it does'nt matter. Nobody seems to think of the $$ of a car when comparing it. For the cost, the vette is NO bargain, period. That's all I have to say, unless the aftermarket dissapears.
Not trying to sound rude or anything, but you've lost your mind if you think "ANY" vette is better than any M3.....sometimes a car isnt perfect in every way, but to compare a vette to an M3, that's a big no no, and god, so many people would agree with me on that. As for naming all the german cars....I'm not gonna start researching and looking into all the stats, but audi and BMW are a better car period, german is german, american is american, and I except this with no problem, owning a mustang, and a very nice VR6.
QuickCapri83 said:
ok, you just contradicted yourself buddy. nobody takes into consideration the $ of a car when comparing it? are you serious? why is it that EVERY magazine that tests a car will include the price? all anyone ever talks about is bang for the buck, unless youre dealing with a $200k+ Lambo or Ferrari. in that case, the people who buy those cars honestly dont consider price. the price on a C6 is pretty reasonable for what you get, as opposed to many overpriced german cars. a new E46 M3 and C6 are about the same price, right around 50k, and look what you get for each.QuickCapri83 said:
M3
333 hp
264 tq
low 13 sec 1/4
refined power
independant suspension, great handling car, near perfect weight distribution.
cool buttons/gadgets. BMW and ///M symbols everywhere (which is what many people pay for, the name)
C6
400 hp
400 tq
low 12 sec 1/4
raw power
independant suspension, decent handling car (great for american RWD), cool buttons/gadgets. navi
both cars look great on paper. but both have strenths and weaknesses. it just depends on what a buyer is looker for. and one of the main reasons these two cars are compared as much as they are is b/c both are in the same price range.
first of all, you do sound rude. second, when did i ever say a vette was better than an M3. "better" is such a relative word, and i hate using it. and why is it such a sin to compare a vette and an M3? both are sports cars. one is "americas sports car" and the other is germany's sports car". both are about the same price. both are trying to include as many luxeries in car as possible, while still trying to retain a sports car feel.QuickCapri83 said:
well, when you make a blanket statement likeQuickCapri83 said:
i would expect you to back it up. all ive ever said was the C6 is a very nice car from chevy. i also said that it would outrun an M3 straightline.QuickCapri83 said:
and again, you use the word "better". i honestly dont think an audi or BMW is a better car b/c its german. and in what way do you mean better? power, handling, price, reliability, reputaion, cost of maintenance, looks? please be more specific when you make accusations, that way i can address them "better".
hm, ive never heard that the solid rear only saves money. there are of course advantages to a solid rear over an indie too though, just not in handling. and you make it seem like the only reason Ferrari and Posche have indie rears is b/c they dont care about the extra expense. that subject didnt even come up at the board meeting. IMHO, the reason for the indie rear on higher end cars is strictly for the handling characteristics. i dont think the developers of german and italian sports cars gave a rat's @$$ if it cost more.Dorsai said:Solid rear axles are about saving money, that's it. Any IRS that's made properly will control wheel hop and be just as durable as a solid axle while providing much better handling as you sorta said. The GT500 having a solid axle is about nothing but cost control by Ford bean counters. When cost is not a limiting factor IRS will always be used...hence no solid axle Ferrari or Porsche sports cars even though they typicaly far exceed Mustangs in hp. I'm not shy about saying it, the worse part of a Mustang is the ride and handling genraly due to the solid axle design faults. But then again if I could afford an F430 I would'nt be posting in these forums
and i think the reason our GTs have a solid rear is b/c ford had to have a few things to offer the cobra buyers. not just a better engine, but a better handling car as well.
neverDerekStangGT said:
nopeDerekStangGT said:
It ultimately depends on how the car was built, a mustang built soild axle car can outperform GTO's with a built IRS because someone didn't design the overall car right..Dorsai said:
It was an excuse because the Blocks cost too much to put into production_jb_ said:
PonyboyIsaac
New Member
- Aug 20, 2004
- 79
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actually there are two reasons ford chose a solid axle even for its top dog mustang.DerekStangGT said:
#1. It is cheaper and it works,irs is more complex and more expensive to build i'm sure.
I think svt made a good choice in keeping the solid axle, it keeps the price down(what mustangs are all about, affordable performance) and it just works, it works in their Grand am championship winning mustang. If its not broken dont fix it.
and #2 they did it to save weight! while everyone is bitching as to why the gt500 is so heavy and all this negative talk, u have to recognize that svt did try to keep the weight down. An irs would have made it a little heavier and the handling difference would not have justified the added weight.
In the end, the GT500 will be a great street cruiser with major balls, in other words a great grand tourer, just like its name indicates.
FR500's have the use of handicaps in Grand Am, so it isnt fairPonyboyIsaac said:
Yes it would've, Safty is the key with IRS and gobs of power on the street, forget adding 75lbs over a solid axle, 70~ lbs is easily removed out of any mustangPonyboyIsaac said:
DocG
5th graders > me. They're not bant
Hmmm.....Vette costs more than a GT500. Maybe on paper, but not in the real world. How much has everyone that's come on here say the dealers are actually selling those things for? Base price, gimme the GT500....would I let a Ford dealer ass-rape me 20k more for a GT500....nah, I'm see ya at the Chevy dealer.
QuickCapri83
New Member
In my experience german cars are better, that's my opinion. My statement about naming german cars was out of frustration, nothing you said tho, but, I was going to bring porsche into this, but I didnt want to open that door, so I choose not to. There are too many porches, and I like alot of them for difference reasons. But I guess what this is about is what is best for 2007. Myself, I would take the M3 over the vette, that's me, and, well, most people that I chill with. Most people arent down with american quality, but I'm a mustang guy...oddly enough, I agree. IMHO the vette just isnt worth the money, just not. The M3 has some very nice qualities, and, there is also an aftermarket for it. Price for price, car vs car, the vette takes it easily as far as performance. For me it's not just the performance of the car, certainly not just one category, it's the car as a whole. I've driven 3 M3's over time, my favorite being the older one's. I would certainly sacrifice strain line speed for a car that just feels so good to be in, I cant explain it, again, this is my opinion. The 500 isnt exactly a failure, it's just too heavy to compete I guess, it seems that's what everyone is talking about...Me, i'm not happy either, but, i'm not happy with alot of things ford has done over the last year and a half.
Myself, and the germans too, dont consider the M3 to be "germany's" sports car, or supercar, a porsche takes that, but in price not a comparative model competes with the vette either.
It comes down to the individual person, what they like in a car, what they're willing to sacrifice. I in no way intended to be rude, text is text and intentions cant always be expressed this way, a good debate cant be established this way.
Alot of people just think "new", as in, they want to compare and buy only a new car. I'm not like that, some of my favorite cars, cars i'm actually willing to buy, are pre-y2k, and some as far back as the 80's, especially a few porsche.
Honestly I dont think we should even be comparing the 500 to the C6, not everyone is doing it, but it's liek the hype I guess. When we got first word of the 500, before we even knew if it would go into production, nobody compared it then, but they do now, this from what I can tell.
I think ford can build a mustang to compete with the vette's, they just do it cheaper. The mustang is an entirely different concept, and I especially enjoy it, it's cheap, bang for the buck.
Jeez I could go on forever, my point is, the C6 is a very well balanced car that costs too much, IMO. Simple as that. So it beat the 500, for now, those numbers are going to change, but, IMO, what's wrong with having to tune the 500 to compete with the vette? What's the big deal with ppl, saying, stock for stock one is better, yet one costs far more.....I mean come'on, you dont think ford had it in mind that people are gonna tune these 500's? And can you imagine how much power ppl are going to get out of them.....i'm betting on a pretty fun car for 40k, maybe 43k, and with a little tune, which is nothing but fun anyways, mop the floor with the vette. Ya see, I dont like chevy, obviously, so, i'm all for the 500. Once these cars hit the streets, it will be an entirely different story. I dont pay attention to what C&D says, or MT, what happens on the street and at the track is what matters to me, in a production car, some time from now.
I'll end with....I love my mustang, love the VR, I enjoy the goods of both worlds. But lets be easy, and let me say, that I am very fond porsche, and, I will probably own one within 5 yrs. They're my absolute favorite, they have everythign "I" want, and what "I" want is what matters. Plus it's pretty cool that it will own both of these cars we've all discussed. 03-04 Cobra comes next year, present stang to stay mostly stock, daily driver. Sry if I offended you.
:SNSign:
Myself, and the germans too, dont consider the M3 to be "germany's" sports car, or supercar, a porsche takes that, but in price not a comparative model competes with the vette either.
It comes down to the individual person, what they like in a car, what they're willing to sacrifice. I in no way intended to be rude, text is text and intentions cant always be expressed this way, a good debate cant be established this way.
Alot of people just think "new", as in, they want to compare and buy only a new car. I'm not like that, some of my favorite cars, cars i'm actually willing to buy, are pre-y2k, and some as far back as the 80's, especially a few porsche.
Honestly I dont think we should even be comparing the 500 to the C6, not everyone is doing it, but it's liek the hype I guess. When we got first word of the 500, before we even knew if it would go into production, nobody compared it then, but they do now, this from what I can tell.
I think ford can build a mustang to compete with the vette's, they just do it cheaper. The mustang is an entirely different concept, and I especially enjoy it, it's cheap, bang for the buck.
Jeez I could go on forever, my point is, the C6 is a very well balanced car that costs too much, IMO. Simple as that. So it beat the 500, for now, those numbers are going to change, but, IMO, what's wrong with having to tune the 500 to compete with the vette? What's the big deal with ppl, saying, stock for stock one is better, yet one costs far more.....I mean come'on, you dont think ford had it in mind that people are gonna tune these 500's? And can you imagine how much power ppl are going to get out of them.....i'm betting on a pretty fun car for 40k, maybe 43k, and with a little tune, which is nothing but fun anyways, mop the floor with the vette. Ya see, I dont like chevy, obviously, so, i'm all for the 500. Once these cars hit the streets, it will be an entirely different story. I dont pay attention to what C&D says, or MT, what happens on the street and at the track is what matters to me, in a production car, some time from now.
I'll end with....I love my mustang, love the VR, I enjoy the goods of both worlds. But lets be easy, and let me say, that I am very fond porsche, and, I will probably own one within 5 yrs. They're my absolute favorite, they have everythign "I" want, and what "I" want is what matters. Plus it's pretty cool that it will own both of these cars we've all discussed. 03-04 Cobra comes next year, present stang to stay mostly stock, daily driver. Sry if I offended you.
:SNSign:
german quality??? have you ever worked on cars?? german cars are not very reliable at all, if anything they are worse than domestics.. japenese cars you can make the argument and win it that the quality is better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear#Power_Laps
13. 1:22.4 – Chevrolet Corvette Z06
31. 1:26.2 – BMW M5
34. 1:26.8 – Chevrolet Corvette
42. 1:28.0 – BMW M3 CSL (CSL = stripped down car with race-like slicks)
62. 1:31.8 – BMW M3
Looks like a base c6 is quicker not only in a straight line, but around a corner as well. But take this post with a grain of salt
13. 1:22.4 – Chevrolet Corvette Z06
31. 1:26.2 – BMW M5
34. 1:26.8 – Chevrolet Corvette
42. 1:28.0 – BMW M3 CSL (CSL = stripped down car with race-like slicks)
62. 1:31.8 – BMW M3
Looks like a base c6 is quicker not only in a straight line, but around a corner as well. But take this post with a grain of salt
GT JAY said:
Not in my world - not even close. Local Ford says the GT500 will be at least 50k with "A.D.P." (Additional Dealer Profit) added, and brand new C6's without being too optioned up (still "stripped" probably has more options than a loaded GT500) are going for 43k to 45k. And the GT500 better get busy and get it into gear if they're going to "WALK ALL OVER a Z06 and a Viper" because the next/'08 Corvette C6 is going to have 485 HP and the Z06 will be Supercharged with 650HP...and I'm sure that Viper will follow right along.
Stock-for-stock is what matters. Pretty pathetic when you have to spend hundreds or thousands on a car that is rip-off selling for more money...just so it can keep up with a factory stock car that it's compared to.
youre saying an S4 and M3 cant outhandle a C6? i dont have any hard evidence, but, the S4 is AWD, which makes any rookie driver look like a pro. good weight distribution.tomustang said:
and i have firsthand experience with an M3 vs a C6. my dad has an E46 and my buddy drives a C6 Z51. ive driven both, and taken them hard through the turns. the M3 was way more stable up to higher speeds, and felt more controlled upon the exit. granted it didnt have the TQ the C6 has to make the rear more prone to sliding, but the M3 was just a better handling car overall. it is the most nuetral handling car ive ever felt. you can really feel that the car is balanced, and near perfect weight distribution. the C6 felt like your average american RWD. it was heavily oversteer biased and just felt squirly. almost like i didnt know what to expect. the M3 is very predictable. i would take the M3 over the C6 on a track any day of the week.
1fast03pony
Member
TweekedGT said:
This is true. However, many vette drivers CAN drive well and even the ones that cant (my dads 00 auto c5 ran 12.9 with intake) will give you a run... 14.3!! thats horrible!
1fast03pony
Member
DerekStangGT said:
Not sure what c6 you drove, but the ones ive driven are on rails... way more solid and secure at 100+mph than any stock e46 m3...
