Help Me Decide What To Do For EFI Setup On My 351W

[jikelly]

So it's time to collect partss for my EFI setup and I was wondering what intake/injection approach I should take. Should I do TBI or Multi-Point EFI?

I've been looking and pricing both setups.

TBI I could keep my Weiand Stealth manifold so I'd just need...

1. Fuel Pump $???.??
2. Throttle Body with injectors 100-500 depending on if it's a used GM unit or one of them Holley TBI units. (I'd like to get one of them 4bl TBI units if possible)
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator

Multi-PointI'd need...

1. Fuel Pump
2. Intake upper and lower or carb style modified for EFI 100-650 depending on if I use a used truck intake or go after market like trick flow.
3. Fuel Rail, pressure regulator and injectors ~$200

All that laid out I'd need to build me a mega squirt controller.

So which is it? What should I do?

I'm really tempted to try and win this truck Upper/lower intake with rails and injectors, but the down side with that is the OEM intake will restrict airflow through the engine. I'm concerned that a 2bl TBI unit will do the same though.

 

[0to100to0]

well, i'm not sure if this is out of ur price range, but this is what i have planned:
http://www.massfloefi.com/

matt

 

[65 fastback]

+1 for the Mass Flo system. That is what I am considering, also.

Tim

 

[86bluecobra]

that mass flow system looks pretty sweet. I would go with whichevr system allows you to close your hood. The truck efi stuff is pretty tall. you maybe looking at a cowl or a scoop of some kind if you go that route.

 

[CochinoFilipino]

He already mentions that the wants to use Megasquirt and he's looking at OE type equpment. Sounds like he wants to do it on a budget.

 

[ForceFed70]

For TBI, the fuel pressure regulator is built into the TBI unit so you won't need to purchase a regulator. Also consider how you are going to do the TPS. With TBI the TPS is also built into the unit.

Fuel pump will be the same with either system, so I wouldn't factor that into the equation.


When I was making this decision, In the end I came to the conclusion that on a stock motor using factory EFI equipment from a 351W truck would be best. But, on modified engine the cost of the intake, injectors, fuel rails, etc.... to support the same HP level the TBI system was much cheaper. I also like how it keeps the stock "carb'd" look. When I pop the hood 9 out of 10 people think it's a carb'd engine.

I would have liked to go multiport, but for the little benifit it would have given me over TBI it wasn't nearly worth the added cost.

 

[Stanger007]

I've also heard good things about Megasquirt.

I'm planning an EFI swap into my Mach 1 in a couple years - gathering parts now - I plan on using a twEECer R/T since that is what I'm most familiar with.

A9L computers and harnesses are relatively easy to come by as well.

Wes

 

[jikelly]

Yeah I'm trying to do it on a budget.

That truck intake with the injectors is really tempting, but with my ported heads, performance cam, and stuff I know it'd be killing my HP. I guess I could try porting it.

Hey BottleFed, so you got one of the Holley commander 900 TBI units. I didn't realize they came with all that stuff. Anyway, that's what I'd like to get, but I haven't found one yet, at least not one within my "budget" (I've already blown what I allotted for my new engine).

I have seen those 2bl GM TBI units on ebay. They've got one for the 5.7 that's about 600CFM, I don't know what lb the injectors are, and one that's I guess larger for the 454. Will the smaller unit be enough CFM for my little 351w?

 

[latamud]

I know you're on a budget but for simplicity If I was to go EFI I'd use the BOSS EFI kit
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/

I also saw some article on a similar setup, simple carb sized throttle body efi kit with 2 very short fuel rails with 4 conventional injectors on both sides of the throttle body. It bolted to carb intakes the same as the BOSS EFI kit.

 

[CochinoFilipino]

For GM TBI info I'd suggest looking over at www.thirdgen.org. They've got a TBI section and there's alot of good info in the Stickies alone.

But since everyone else is ignoring the Budget part; I saw this in the latest HotRod mag: Look at the item at the top right. It's $698 from www.Wilsonmanifolds.com and it can be used with your MS ECU.

 

[jikelly]

That V-Force thing looks pretty cool. I recon it'd work although I wonder how well it would go with my intake.

Thanks for the info. I looked over at the third gen site. There's a guy doing a TBI swap onto a 305 with very useful info. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tbi/391406-budget-tbi-buildup.html

I bet there's more though. I'll have to learn more about it and figure out what the CFM/flow of the 454 TBI is.

 

[ForceFed70]

Hey BottleFed, so you got one of the Holley commander 900 TBI units. I didn't realize they came with all that stuff. Anyway, that's what I'd like to get, but I haven't found one yet, at least not one within my "budget" (I've already blown what I allotted for my new engine).

I have seen those 2bl GM TBI units on ebay. They've got one for the 5.7 that's about 600CFM, I don't know what lb the injectors are, and one that's I guess larger for the 454. Will the smaller unit be enough CFM for my little 351w?

Yes I have the holly 900cfm and it works great. It also has the Idle Air Control solenoid built in. Just keep your eye on ebay, mine was $340 and looked like it had never been used. Also make sure to get one that doesn't have progressive linkage for the secondaries, it makes tuneing much more difficult.

I also looked at those 2bbl TBI's. I can't see them being good for much more than 300hp. You might be able to find a way to mount 2 of them, but it would be alot of work and wouldn't save you much in the end.

 

[Travis77]

There are also many good used F.A.S.T. units out there that I would not hessitate on using.

 

[jikelly]

I found one of them Holley 4di commander throttle bodies for 300. It is supposedly the largest one.

Is that going to be a problem? Will the injectors be to large and if they are can I just get another set to go on there?

Oh and I searched and searched for information and pricing on that bolt on EFI to no avail. I guess they haven't worked out the price yet. Now I just gotta get the Mega Squirt built and wired up. Which model would be best for my application and should I search for a wideband O2 sensor to replace my single wire unit? Do I need two?

Sorry about all the questions.

 

[ForceFed70]

To tune for best fuel economy and power, you'll want a wideband. It's much harder to do with a narrow band O2.

Your TBI unit will be the same as mine (900 cfm with 85pph injectors) You can swap out the injectors for the 55pph injectors if you want. They come in the 700cfm TBI's and will fit in no problem. However, I've found that I have no problems with my 85pph injectors in my mild to moderate 351W.

You'll want the v3 PCB. The real choice is MSI or MSII. I chose the MSII, there's not a large amount of benifit to the MSII at the moment, but with future development the MSII will soon be far superior.

 

[paintballtommy]

i used a trick flow 351w efi manifold very nice manifold and surprisingly fits under my hood. then i just pieced together stuff from a truck in the wrecking yard and 5.0 stuff to finish. when i get it up and running ill send pics.

 

[jikelly]

To tune for best fuel economy and power, you'll want a wideband. It's much harder to do with a narrow band O2.

Your TBI unit will be the same as mine (900 cfm with 85pph injectors) You can swap out the injectors for the 55pph injectors if you want. They come in the 700cfm TBI's and will fit in no problem. However, I've found that I have no problems with my 85pph injectors in my mild to moderate 351W.

You'll want the v3 PCB. The real choice is MSI or MSII. I chose the MSII, there's not a large amount of benifit to the MSII at the moment, but with future development the MSII will soon be far superior.

Will I need a wideband controller?

What are they planing to add to the squirt MII?

More questions. It's like when I kept asking my mom why.

 

[ForceFed70]

Will I need a wideband controller?

What are they planing to add to the squirt MII?

More questions. It's like when I kept asking my mom why.

Yes, you would need a controller to go with the wideband. I bought a Innovative LC1 for $199 and it came with the sensor.

The MSII has a CAN bus which is an automotive standard for communication between electronics.

Currently they are developing a Router board, as well as a GPIO (General purpose input/output) board that will communicate via CAN. The router board will allow for sequential injection as well as COP (coil over plug). The GPIO board will be just a set of general purpose inputs/outputs with built in templates for things like multi-speed fan control, electronic transmission contol, nitrous control, launch control, traction control, TQ lockup, etc.

 

[Taranis]

has anyone looked at the Edelbrock Pro-Flo setup?

 

[samwe]

http://www.auto-nomics.com/ has a few options for affordable throttle bodies. Much cheaper then, most NEW TB's.