Help putting a combo around TFS 170 heads.

032vstang

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Got a 1994 gt, gonna have the bottom end rebuilt and balanced with new pistons, rings, bearings, etc.. and bored to a 306. I'm sold on the Trick Flow 170 twisted wedge heads unless i can find some reviews about the enforcer heads AFR rolled out. I'm trying to build a mostly street car. Hot rodding the roads with some quarter mile runs once or so a month. Looking to pull 400 at the flywheel, and hopefully have 300 at the rears with my AOD.

Now, im not sure what cam or intake to pair with the heads. Ive searched and read quite a bit, with a lot of the info i found being pretty old. Im looking for the powerband to stay around 1,500-6,500. Car wont be brought past that. Eventually the cars gonna have 4:10s or 3:73s. Pistons will have valve reliefs. I havent seen many cars making 300whp with TFS stage 1 or any of the letter cams, although i may just not be searching in the correct spots. Just trying to find a good proven recipe that can pull 400 at the crank.
 
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LILCBRA

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It's a bit of a different animal, but you can check out my Cobra II's dyno pull from last November, the link is in my sig. I run Twisted Wedges and pulled 265 whp while running pig rich. You can see the plume of exhaust gasses when he floors it for the pulls. I'm hoping to be able to take it back to the dyno for some pulls now that I've gotten my carb straightened out, it should come closer to that 300 whp number you're looking for.
 
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Mustang5L5

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I think in order to hit 400 crank, you'll need a few more cubes than a 302/306 based more. I've seen that sort of numbers from a 331/347, but 302/306 numbers tend to be around 300-325HP at the wheels with the TFS170s and supporting mods (which would be around 350-375HP flywheel. With a street-based engine, a big fat flat torque curve will be much more fun than peak HP at high RPM.

I'm running TFS170s on a 302 with custom grind cam and ported Cobra intake and supporting mods. My goal was a street motor so i'd be happy with ~300HP at the wheels.
 

revhead347

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400hp at the flywheel is out of the TW170cc head range on a street car without a power adder. Trick Flow has taken all the guesswork out of this. They sell complete combos; heads, cam intake, with the replacement parts as a package that saves you money. However, power at the wheels is what really matters. 300 rwhp on TF170 heads is achievable. Call their tech support and talk to them about it. If you are going to spend $2k+ on a top end kit, then TF can take a few minutes of their time to talk to you about it. Don't obcess about peak power numbers, the total performance is what matters. A 300hp engine with a good transmission is going to perform better than a 400hp engine on a stock AOD.

Kurt
 

032vstang

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400hp at the flywheel is out of the TW170cc head range on a street car without a power adder. Trick Flow has taken all the guesswork out of this. They sell complete combos; heads, cam intake, with the replacement parts as a package that saves you money. However, power at the wheels is what really matters. 300 rwhp on TF170 heads is achievable. Call their tech support and talk to them about it. If you are going to spend $2k+ on a top end kit, then TF can take a few minutes of their time to talk to you about it. Don't obcess about peak power numbers, the total performance is what matters. A 300hp engine with a good transmission is going to perform better than a 400hp engine on a stock AOD.

Kurt
[/QUOTE
400hp at the flywheel is out of the TW170cc head range on a street car without a power adder. Trick Flow has taken all the guesswork out of this. They sell complete combos; heads, cam intake, with the replacement parts as a package that saves you money. However, power at the wheels is what really matters. 300 rwhp on TF170 heads is achievable. Call their tech support and talk to them about it. If you are going to spend $2k+ on a top end kit, then TF can take a few minutes of their time to talk to you about it. Don't obcess about peak power numbers, the total performance is what matters. A 300hp engine with a good transmission is going to perform better than a 400hp engine on a stock AOD.

Kurt
Do you think 300whp is achievable thru an AOD with a TFS top end, or possibly a pieced together top end like TFS, but with a bigger cam? I keep “hearing” horror stories about how an AOD could rob possibly 30-33% of power. If so, I’ve gotten myself in a big pickle buying an AOD car.
 

LILCBRA

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There's nothing really wrong with running an AOD as long as you are aware of it's limitations. I had an 84 vert that I transplanted a 5.0/AOD/8.8 combo from a Mark VII into. It was a fun car, even if it was mostly stock. Gears will be your friend in addition to building the engine. Really, in the scheme of things, HP numbers are just that, numbers. They look good in print, but 250 hp can be just as fun as 500, depending on a lot of other variables.....
 

Ryuk

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There's nothing really wrong with running an AOD as long as you are aware of it's limitations. I had an 84 vert that I transplanted a 5.0/AOD/8.8 combo from a Mark VII into. It was a fun car, even if it was mostly stock. Gears will be your friend in addition to building the engine. Really, in the scheme of things, HP numbers are just that, numbers. They look good in print, but 250 hp can be just as fun as 500, depending on a lot of other variables.....
This is why a 225 hp fox body was orders of magnitude more fun than a 305 hp S197 V6 Mustang. With the fox, the torque came on lower in RPMs and worked out your neck muscles. The S197 was smoother and ran a quarter mile faster, but was nowhere near as fun.
 

revhead347

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Do you think 300whp is achievable thru an AOD with a TFS top end, or possibly a pieced together top end like TFS, but with a bigger cam? I keep “hearing” horror stories about how an AOD could rob possibly 30-33% of power. If so, I’ve gotten myself in a big pickle buying an AOD car.

I'm sure it's been done, are you going to get 300rwhp, maybe, maybe not. Like other's said, it really doesn't matter, because it's a just a number. In fact, when you call Trick Flow, don't mention a HP goal, let them know what you want out of the car. I want to be able to use a factory short block with out modifying the pistons, but get the most power out of bolt ons. I do want to keep the AOD, but I don't want to have a cam so big that I need a big converter that's going to make it hassle to drive. Stuff like that. What do you want the car to do. They might suggest the 185cc head, or something like that. I can tell you right now, a 300 rwhp car with a stock AOD is going to be slower than a 250 rwhp car with the right converter and an AOD set up correctly. You can't go wrong with Trick Flow though, they make really good stuff.

Kurt
 
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Willybill32

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Those are really good numbers for a 302 combo with those heads. I hope my numbers are similar.
Mike, I believe you also had a Bassani X-pipe with cats for your car. I just installed that same mid-pipe on my '86 yesterday. Sounds good, and I'm debating whether or not to make a return to the guy who did my tune to adjust for the reduced back pressure.
 

Mustang5L5

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Mike, I believe you also had a Bassani X-pipe with cats for your car. I just installed that same mid-pipe on my '86 yesterday. Sounds good, and I'm debating whether or not to make a return to the guy who did my tune to adjust for the reduced back pressure.


Yup. Same pipe. I wonder how the addition of cats would affect your numbers

How were the equal lengths to install? Tight? I've been debating those or the JBA unequals. I'm just concerned with clearance on the MM steering shaft as I had to dimple my current BBK shorties
 

Willybill32

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Yup. Same pipe. I wonder how the addition of cats would affect your numbers

How were the equal lengths to install? Tight? I've been debating those or the JBA unequals. I'm just concerned with clearance on the MM steering shaft as I had to dimple my current BBK shorties
My original dyno numbers were with the original H-pipe with the four cats, so I'm expecting the numbers to be better with only the two high-flow cats on the Bassani pipes.

The Bassani equal-length shorties weren't too bad to install. The passenger side of the engine had to be jacked up so I could get that side on, and the passenger side is really tight. I can barely get a playing card between the passenger side header and the shock tower, but it doesn't hit when the engine is running. There's plenty of room on the driver's side, and no interference with my stock steering shaft.

Bill
 

tmoss

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Since you have an automatic, don't get too targeted on making a certain rwhp goal, the torque converter determines a lot. You can dyno a certain rwhp then run faster than you should on the track. 330-360 rwtq is attainable if you get things right and that will run into the 11s with traction. Good cam, intake and exhaust choice is important with those heads.
 
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Yellow5.094

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Got a 1994 gt, gonna have the bottom end rebuilt and balanced with new pistons, rings, bearings, etc.. and bored to a 306. I'm sold on the Trick Flow 170 twisted wedge heads unless i can find some reviews about the enforcer heads AFR rolled out. I'm trying to build a mostly street car. Hot rodding the roads with some quarter mile runs once or so a month. Looking to pull 400 at the flywheel, and hopefully have 300 at the rears with my AOD.

Now, im not sure what cam or intake to pair with the heads. Ive searched and read quite a bit, with a lot of the info i found being pretty old. Im looking for the powerband to stay around 1,500-6,500. Car wont be brought past that. Eventually the cars gonna have 4:10s or 3:73s. Pistons will have valve reliefs. I havent seen many cars making 300whp with TFS stage 1 or any of the letter cams, although i may just not be searching in the correct spots. Just trying to find a good proven recipe that can pull 400 at the crank.
N-41 Anderson cam has great lope/chop to it and good rpm range of 1500-6300. Will work good with tfs heads and then some, the cam is only a .515 lift compared to the stock .498 ish lift, so you shouldn't have to worry about PTV with stock pistons being notched for up to .550 lift. Sounds good and is still a mild cam that will work well with stock EEC. Nothing too aggressive and will get you good power numbers.

As for heads, I am actually in the exact same boat you are, same build and what not with a 94' 302 bored to a 306, I just want to find the best combo to make 350whp, low end torque and cam that doesn't make 0 power past 5k ish like the stock one. (However I have a T5)

The enforcer heads have a CFM of 257 at .550 lift, which is the best for "budget heads" except for the ProMaxx which is at 265cfm, but have fair seals and not as strong valvetrain. So I've been in quite the teeter totter myself with heads.
 

7991LXnSHO

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My ‘86 GT with stock bottom end dyno’d at 314 RWHP/346 lbs ft. I used TW170 heads, E303 cam, Comp Cams 1.6 roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, Bassani equal-length shorties, BBK 65mm throttle body, BBK 76mm MAF, 24 lb injectors and stock H-pipe with cats.
What happens with this kind of combo on a 347 (with a manual transmission)?
@tmoss is my ported lower Explorer intake going to be enough to let it breathe to 5500 or 6000 RPM?
 

032vstang

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N-41 Anderson cam has great lope/chop to it and good rpm range of 1500-6300. Will work good with tfs heads and then some, the cam is only a .515 lift compared to the stock .498 ish lift, so you shouldn't have to worry about PTV with stock pistons being notched for up to .550 lift. Sounds good and is still a mild cam that will work well with stock EEC. Nothing too aggressive and will get you good power numbers.

As for heads, I am actually in the exact same boat you are, same build and what not with a 94' 302 bored to a 306, I just want to find the best combo to make 350whp, low end torque and cam that doesn't make 0 power past 5k ish like the stock one. (However I have a T5)

The enforcer heads have a CFM of 257 at .550 lift, which is the best for "budget heads" except for the ProMaxx which is at 265cfm, but have fair seals and not as strong valvetrain. So I've been in quite the teeter totter myself with heads.
Holy crap I forgot all about this thread. I ended up selling the 302 car to a buddy (we actually just done a gasket job on it) and I’m cruising in a 2v now. I still plan on building a 302 car, and have been looking at the enforcer heads. Know anyone or heard about anyone using them?
 

tmoss

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What happens with this kind of combo on a 347 (with a manual transmission)?
@tmoss is my ported lower Explorer intake going to be enough to let it breathe to 5500 or 6000 RPM?

MAYBE, but the cam choice is critical. Not real likely with a street friendly idle cam. When you increase cubes with a GT40 intake you need more cam to make power. On a 347 they peak out at 5200- 5500. Run more cam and it might happen at the expense of street drivability. Check with a good cam specifier for more insight.
 
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Yellow5.094

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Holy crap I forgot all about this thread. I ended up selling the 302 car to a buddy (we actually just done a gasket job on it) and I’m cruising in a 2v now. I still plan on building a 302 car, and have been looking at the enforcer heads. Know anyone or heard about anyone using them?
Yes I actually just purchased a set, I’m winging it