Help understanding relationship between flywheel and engine vibration

[AwPhooey]

Hello everyone- could use some input from any folks who can spare a minute.

I’ve posted on my car before, and have a new set of questions. The background is, I used to have a 2000 GT, automatic transmission, bought it new. "USED to have" because my son totaled it. Yes, he’s still alive (meaning the accident didn’t kill him, nor did I)…

Not having money for a new car, and not wanting to buy something used that I don’t know the history of, I decided to take the engine out of it and swap it into something else (engine is tip top, I’m anal retentive about maintenance. Have a ’01 Explorer with 250K and a ’96 Ranger with 320K).

I found a solid ride to work with, another 2000 GT, cherry front to rear. Engine was seized (140K), but everything else was stellar. When we took it apart, we found that one of the timing chain tensioners busted, thus the reason for engine seizure.

So, here’s the deal… I’m ok with basics, but I’m not too experienced with more “advanced” concepts- namely, flywheel balancing (which I *think* may be the issue here). The “new” GT is a manual. I wasn’t sure what shape the clutch would be in, so got one ahead of time (just a regular stock). We pulled out the seized engine, swapped in my engine from the automatic, used the new stock clutch and pressure plate I bought, and kept his flywheel and tranny (just stating the obvious).Everything went in fine, we were as careful as can be, and once done car runs like a champ. Except for the vibration. It’s pretty noticeable. Can hear it and feel it and man it feels like crap. So here’s where my inexperience comes in.

A couple of friends suggested that the flywheel may have been balanced with the original engine. I know this may be some basic knowledge for you more steeped folks, it’s just something I never realized the importance of- I’ve only really owned automatics (well, my Ranger is a manual, but hell I’ve never had to do anything with the clutch/tranny). Is this a possibility, and thus a potential cause for the shakes I have now?

If it truly is a case of the flywheel not being in synch with my engine, do I have any options in trying to fix the issue? With a son now in college and Christmas here, I am absolutely too broke to be able to buy another vehicle right now. Plus, I absolutely love this car, it came with lots of nifty aftermarketbolt ons, and I know my engine is in tip top shape.

I’m really dreading the answer that may come out of this. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Phoo

 

[trinity_gt]

The flywheels and dampers (front of the crank snout) on these engines are "neutral" balance because the engines are internally balanced. This means that there is no specific balancing counterweights or the like on flywheels for these engines.

The vibration you are feeling is, in all likelihood, caused by something gone awry with the clutch install but not the flywheel itself.

Qs: Did you have the flywheel resurfaced prior to installing the new setup? When you assembled the clutch cover/pressure plate to the flywheel did you ensure that the dowel pins on the flywheel were in place? These are used to accurately center the clutch cover to the flywheel; the bolts alone are not enough. Given the mass of the cover assembly it wouldn't take much misalignment for there to be some pretty serious vibration.

 

[mustangman9812]

Again trinity_gt beat me to the punch with another great answer, one question I have is..... Is the vibration when taking off or running down the road?

I read the post serveral times and couldnt find the answer to this but I am blind sometimes lol

 

[trinity_gt]

Again trinity_gt beat me to the punch with another great answer, one question I have is..... Is the vibration when taking off or running down the road?

I read the post serveral times and couldnt find the answer to this but I am blind sometimes lol

Good point mm. I think he's referring to an engine vibration that could be felt even when revving at idle but perhaps he's talking about chatter (engine, driveline and/or whole-vehicle shudder when the clutch is taking up...)

If that's the case, we'd need to know what type of clutch he installed (puck-type or full-face, sprung or unsprung hub) and if he was careful to (a) degrease the surfaces of the pressure plate and flywheel and (b) to keep grease and related goo off the flywheel, pressure plate and friction disc.

 

[AwPhooey]

Trinity / MM, thanks for taking the time to respond. Thanks also Trinity for the info on neutral balancing. I’ll answer your questions as best I can remember.
1. Did you have the flywheel resurfaced prior to installing the new setup?
Definitely did not.

2. When you assembled the clutch cover/pressure plate to the flywheel did you ensure that the dowel pins on the flywheel were in place?
Yes, fairly certain this was done correctly, because after 30 minutes of trying and not getting it right, I actually posted a question to this board asking “what the hell am I doing wrong”, then about 20 minutes later after slowly slowly slowly turning, they finally lined up just right.

3. Is the vibration when taking off or running down the road?
Feels like both, at idle, taking off and definitely when I’m down the road- at certain speeds I can hear a metallic shimmy sound that comes and goes (wish I could explain it better). The first thing I thought when I heard it was the muffler pipes weren’t secure, but they indeed are. The other noise I have is the ever present Ford tob, but it’s exceptionally chattery in this vehicle (I say ever present, as my Ranger has always had tob chatter, and I’ve read Ford seems pretty notorious with it). But, this tob noise in particular may be a further sign of bad install.

4. We'd need to know what type of clutch he installed (puck-type or full-face, sprung or unsprung hub) and if he was careful to (a) degrease the surfaces of the pressure plate and flywheel and (b) to keep grease and related goo off the flywheel, pressure plate and friction disc.
I went with a standard stock clutch from Autozone- I toyed with the idea of a Stage 2, etc, but just figured it would be silly- I’m a 43 year old father of two, my days of such things have long passed.
As for the type of clutch you asked, I’m not sure- but I looked up the part number and attached a pic to my post.
I didn’t degrease either surface, but then again there was nothing to degrease. They were both clean and dry. We also kept goo and what not off everything, so I think we’re good there.

 

[trinity_gt]

Thanks for the detailed answers.

Just for clarification: Is the problem a vibration that physically shakes the car or is it more of a noise -- grinding, rattling etc?

BTW, cleaning the surfaces is really sort of mandatory when putting a new clutch in. The factory puts an anti-corrosion coating -- essentially a thin smear of a pretty thick oily substance similar to what you find on new brake rotors -- that should be cleaned off with brake cleaner before assembling the parts to avoid contaminating the friction surfaces.

 

[bigbird04]

What about driveline alinement since the engines are internally balanced. Could be a loose/ broken motor/ tranny mount , or whole driveline in bind due to mis allignment ? Pilot bearing ?

 

[james98GT]

Did you remember to install a pilot bearing sence your motor was in an automatic and now your in a straight drive car.

 

[AwPhooey]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Since you were kind enough to take the time to respond, then I should do the same in return (even if I feel a bit sheepish in doing so).

So, finally got a chance to get under with a friend, drop the tranny and check out the clutch, etc. As I said before, I hadn’t machined the fly wheel the first install, wasn’t aware just how important that could be- lesson learned. I took the wheel down and had it resurfaced. Another thing I noticed, the TOB was dry. I know we greased it originally, but obviously not near enough. Pilot bearing was fine (yes, we did remember to install that originally, so got something right).

The pressure plate was scored/marked a bit, so I carefully sanded down. Got it pretty cleared up. Installed everything back up, new TOB with healthy amount of grease, shiny resurfaced fly wheel, cleaned up pressure plate, tranny back up and took her for a ride last night.

Difference was night…and…day… My gosh, clutch was a smooth as butter and shifted perfectly, no vibrations, no engine shaking, and not a peep from the TOB. I definitely learned my lessons on this. Really appreciate everyone’s input.