Fox Help With Power Steering Pressure Leak

wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
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Hey guys, I have a power steering leak at the rack that I tracked down tonight to the pressure hose fitting. I thought that it would be leaking from the fitting where it meets the rack, but it's actually leaking where the metal hose meets the fitting at the point that allows the fitting to spin and the metal hose to swivel.

Here is what my pressure hose looks like and where it's leaking:
PressureHose.jpg



The history on this is that I replaced the rack with a reman one from LMR several months ago along with a reman Ford pump. For some reason I didn't think to just replace the hoses at the same time, but I really should have while I had the rack out instead of reusing the old hoses... :(

Everything was great until a couple months later when I was driving and noticed the PS pump whining much louder than usual. Thankfully I was very close to home so I parked the car and saw that there was a lot of fluid leaking near the rack fittings. It was so bad that the next day when I checked I found the pump was completely dry and a puddle of fluid underneath the car.

At that point I said screw it, and ordered new return and pressure hoses. I installed them and within a day it was leaking again! It's not nearly as bad as the first time but definitely still leaking and that brings me to tonight when I traced it down to the pressure hose rack-side fitting. It doesn't leak much just sitting there, but you can see it visibly leaking when you start the car.

So I'm wondering, have any of you guys ever experienced this problem? Is it possible I got a bad pressure hose?

The new return hose I got has a different type of fitting than the pressure hose, with a black o-ring that you put on the end before installing and looks like this:
ReturnHose.jpg


The pressure hose is a "Type III" fitting where the o-ring is internal and not accessible. I think either should work, since the new return hose doesn't leak, and the old hoses were both type III.

Any advice you guys can give would be really awesome. Thanks!
 
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2011rustang5o

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Jan 5, 2011
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Is that end supposed to be like the pressure end that hooks to the pump that has the teflon washer?


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wiseguyk

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Sep 23, 2016
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Is that end supposed to be like the pressure end that hooks to the pump that has the teflon washer?


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The old return hose was like that but the new one looks like the one in the 2nd picture. Both hoses had teflon washers installed and the return hose isn't leaking at all. The pressure hose that goes to the pump is the one that's leaking.

I ordered the new pressure line from LMR and it said for 1991-1993 w/AC so that's the one I got since my car's a 91 with AC, but now I'm thinking maybe I need a different one since I have a remanufactured rack from LMR.

Here's the one I have - https://lmr.com/item/LRS-3719M/91-93-Mustang-50L-Power-Steering-Pressure-Hose

But they also have ones for 1990, and 87-89
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-3719J/1990-Mustang-50L-Power-Steering-Pressure-Hose
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-3719B/87-89-Mustang-50L-Power-Steering-Pressure-Hose

All of the pictures are identical, but all have different part numbers so there must be a reason right?

It makes me wonder if I need the other style hose but my old hoses were both like the 1st picture and didn't leak. But then again that was with the old rack.

I'm hoping someone might know for sure if either style fitting should work or if it's one or the other.
 

Shakerhood

15 Year Member
Oct 28, 2004
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I bought that same hose when I put my 04 Cobra Rack in the car and it leaked from the same spot, the Ford Service Manual says the line is bad if it leaks from that spot so I dug the old one out of the trash and put it on.
 

wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
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Florida
Thanks for the info, Shaker. Yeah, I can't see there being much I can do about the leak from that spot so I'll probably just have to get another hose :(

I emailed LMR to see what they say about the correct hose style for their reman PS rack so hopefully I'll get a definitive yea or nay on that.
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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I am not sure I'm clear on this.
The leak is at the rack involving the pressure hose.
The old hose and the new hose have the same fittings.
The '0' ring is good.
I changed mine a few years ago, didn't need hoses, 89 gt, but don't remember much about it and my engine was out so it was uneventful. Maybe hard to do but try to inspect the fitting at the rack and make sure no debris in there. Compare the two ends, old to new, small differences are important. Over tightening is as bad as not tight enough. Contact LMR they are great to work with and can help.
Keep us posted.
I looked at the pics again and you are showing two different hoses.
 
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wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
302
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Florida
I am not sure I'm clear on this.
The leak is at the rack involving the pressure hose.
The old hose and the new hose have the same fittings.
The '0' ring is good.
I changed mine a few years ago, didn't need hoses, 89 gt, but don't remember much about it and my engine was out so it was uneventful. Maybe hard to do but try to inspect the fitting at the rack and make sure no debris in there. Compare the two ends, old to new, small differences are important. Over tightening is as bad as not tight enough. Contact LMR they are great to work with and can help.
Keep us posted.
I looked at the pics again and you are showing two different hoses.
Yeah, there are a few variables here that make it confusing.

The leak is involving the pressure hose, leaking at the spot shown in the first picture. Both the new and old pressure hoses are the Type III style shown in the first picture. The rack has been replaced and the old hose was used with both new and old racks.

The hose is new from LMR so I would hope that the o-ring is good, but considering it's leaking it might be defective?

I don't have the old hose anymore so unfortunately can't compare them, but I'm almost certain they are identical. I was worried about over/under tightening but since it's not leaking at the actual fitting to rack connection (it's leaking solely on the hose side where the metal end of the hose meets the fitting) I don't think that's the problem.

You are correct, they are different hoses now. The new return hose is the style shown in the picture. The old return hose was the same style as the new and old pressure hoses. I'm not having any leak problems with the new return hose, which is what made me wonder if the new rack needs that style of hose...

Thanks for your help, I'll definitely give an update when I hear back from LMR.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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I seem to remember some plastic washers involved with my rack change but it as almost two years ago and things get fuzzy after awhile. And I was dealing with an 89 . From the description of the hose and where the leak is it's possible that the problem is with the sleeve and fitting, maybe a defect, or the 0 ring. I interested in what LMR says. Frustrating I know.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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polk county florida
Another possibility is a wrong year part, either rack or hose. Example 89 rack 91 hose but we are guessing. It would seem to be just an 0 ring malfunction though, you have not changed the 0 ring right.
 

wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
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Another possibility is a wrong year part, either rack or hose. Example 89 rack 91 hose but we are guessing. It would seem to be just an 0 ring malfunction though, you have not changed the 0 ring right.
Very frustrating! I got a reply from LMR today saying that the rack should accept the 91-93 hose, so I replied asking if it should accept any of the three hoses then. The rack I purchased from them just says it fits 85-93 but the fact that there are 3 different hoses listed for 87-93 it would seem that either one or all should work. Not to mention they also list ones for 83-86 and 91-93 w/o AC just to add to the madness lol It'll be interesting to hear what they say.

In the meantime, I looked up the 3 manufacturer's part numbers for the 3 hoses listed on LMR's site. They are Gates brand and O'Reilly has them all on their website with pictures. They all do in fact have different combos of fitting types.

Here are the 3:
1987-1989 - http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GAT0/358900.oap?keyword=358900
87-89.jpg


1990 - http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GAT0/364810.oap?keyword=364810
90.jpg


1991-1993 - http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GAT0/360130.oap?keyword=360130
1991-1993.jpg




This afternoon before I heard back from LMR I went ahead and ordered the 1990 version from O'Reilly. My thinking is that it has the same rack-side fitting as my non-leaking return hose, and the same fitting as the pump side so it would be worth a shot. Can you tell I'm getting impatient and want to just drive the damn car? Good times :)
 

jrichker

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Just in case you haven't figured this out yet...

Dropping the rack before attempting to remove the hydraulic lines will save you 30-45 minutes of fussing and sweating,
When you re-install the rack assembly, put the rear bushings in the rack assembly and lift it into place. Then install the hydraulic lines, front bushings & washers and tighten down the nuts. Doing it this way makes room for the hydraulic lines without having them bind against the frame.

Power steering pressure lines:
Each hose uses an O ring on each end to seal them. The hoses will swivel when they are installed and tightened into place. That is why there are O rings on the fittings. The O ring is the part that actually makes the pressure seal. If you slide the nut all the way back as far as it will go, you will see the O ring and the groove cut into the center section of the fitting.



Sometimes you will get some white Teflon rings with the pump or rack. The rings go on the threaded part of the fitting to reduce or prevent small leaks. They are not meant to seal the pressure part of the line or substitute for the rubber O ring. Heat the white Teflon seals in hot water and they will be easier to install. You can install the fittings without them and not have any leaks if the O rings seal good.
 
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wiseguyk

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Just in case you haven't figured this out yet...

Dropping the rack before attempting to remove the hydraulic lines will save you 30-45 minutes of fussing and sweating,
When you re-install the rack assembly, put the rear bushings in the rack assembly and lift it into place. Then install the hydraulic lines, front bushings & washers and tighten down the nuts. Doing it this way makes room for the hydraulic lines without having them bind against the frame.
I didn't drop the rack, and it was definitely a pain to get the lines replaced with it still in place, but I wasn't sure if I could do what you're describing without also disconnecting the steering pinch bolt. I screwed up my steering wheel alignment when I did the rack (have fixed it since) and am a little gun-shy about accidentally doing that again :(

Thankfully the return line is the bigger pain of the two with the rack in place because I had to go in with a stubby wrench from the top side next to the header and could only get about an 8th of a turn at a time. I can get at the pressure line pretty easily from the front side.

As far as the hose fitting goes, I think that might be part of my issue. The new pressure hose is not the type that you describe. It has an internal, non-accessible o-ring (apparently called Type III). That's why I ordered the 1990 version (see pic above), because my new return line is of the style you showed and doesn't leak at all.

I'm at the point now where I think I either have a defective hose with a bad internal o-ring causing the leak, or my rack doesn't work with that type of fitting.

Thanks for your help!
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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You should be able to get to the 0 ring at the rack end of the hose, it maybe difficult but the fitting should slide up enought to see it, may have to twist it back and forth, maybe needs a drop of oil at the top of the fitting to help, I think the ps pump end has a seal that is not serviceable, when you get the hose off make sure no debris is in there although thats hard with rack in place. This kind of stuff is frustrating. Makes you want to find a prius and kick it.
 

jrichker

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I didn't drop the rack, and it was definitely a pain to get the lines replaced with it still in place, but I wasn't sure if I could do what you're describing without also disconnecting the steering pinch bolt. I screwed up my steering wheel alignment when I did the rack (have fixed it since) and am a little gun-shy about accidentally doing that again :(

Thankfully the return line is the bigger pain of the two with the rack in place because I had to go in with a stubby wrench from the top side next to the header and could only get about an 8th of a turn at a time. I can get at the pressure line pretty easily from the front side.

As far as the hose fitting goes, I think that might be part of my issue. The new pressure hose is not the type that you describe. It has an internal, non-accessible o-ring (apparently called Type III). That's why I ordered the 1990 version (see pic above), because my new return line is of the style you showed and doesn't leak at all.

I'm at the point now where I think I either have a defective hose with a bad internal o-ring causing the leak, or my rack doesn't work with that type of fitting.

Thanks for your help!
Removing the pinch coupling is a major pain in the neck...literally.

The flex coupling for the steering shaft needs to be disconnected before you can get the rack out. You should disassemble the coupling by removing the 2 bolts that hold it together. The lower part of the coupling will then come out with the rack, and can easily be removed.

I try to use stainless steel bolts and self locking nuts for the flex coupling along with lots of Never Seeze on the bolt threads, There will always be a "next time" as long as you own the car.
 

wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
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You should be able to get to the 0 ring at the rack end of the hose, it maybe difficult but the fitting should slide up enought to see it, may have to twist it back and forth, maybe needs a drop of oil at the top of the fitting to help, I think the ps pump end has a seal that is not serviceable, when you get the hose off make sure no debris is in there although thats hard with rack in place. This kind of stuff is frustrating. Makes you want to find a prius and kick it.
Oh I definitely tried that :) That's the problem though, the fitting with the hose I have is the same on both the rack and pump side (Type III shown in the 1991-1993 hose picture). I saw Joe's diagram and tried to do what you're describing but could never get the fitting to move.

This was the best I could find online showing the two different fitting types and Type III doesn't have a serviceable o-ring, where Type II does:
o-ringTypes.jpg
 
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wiseguyk

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Removing the pinch coupling is a major pain in the neck...literally.

The flex coupling for the steering shaft needs to be disconnected before you can get the rack out. You should disassemble the coupling by removing the 2 bolts that hold it together. The lower part of the coupling will then come out with the rack, and can easily be removed.

I try to use stainless steel bolts and self locking nuts for the flex coupling along with lots of Never Seeze on the bolt threads, There will always be a "next time" as long as you own the car.
Yeah it sure is! I figured that's what would need to be done and definitely thought a few times how I could have probably saved myself a lot of time just biting the bullet and pulling the rack out rather than the stupid 8th turn wrenching and knuckle banging route I took.

That's a great tip about the two bolts though, I only removed the one pinch bolt when I did the rack and the coupling stayed on the steering rod side. Definitely a PITA though...
 

wiseguyk

Active Member
Sep 23, 2016
302
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Florida
You should be able to get to the 0 ring at the rack end of the hose, it maybe difficult but the fitting should slide up enought to see it, may have to twist it back and forth, maybe needs a drop of oil at the top of the fitting to help, I think the ps pump end has a seal that is not serviceable, when you get the hose off make sure no debris is in there although thats hard with rack in place. This kind of stuff is frustrating. Makes you want to find a prius and kick it.
LOL I didn't catch the Prius comment at the end! Thankfully I'm not that frustrated yet! ;)
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
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I keep thinking you got a miss matched rack and hose.
My neighbor had a prius and I rag'd on him about ' pick'n a prius outta my grill', now he drives an suv.
 
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