Horsepower in 05 and impact on sales

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by blkgt714, Dec 23, 2003.

  1. This is a double edged sword...

    Ford has sold a lot of Mustangs, majority of them being the V6.. Does the average Mustang owner care about neck snapping acceleration? I don't think so.. The Mustang appeals to a lot of people's needs. Nice powerful engine, good looks, good every day performance and most importantly AFFORDABLE. Ford wants to cater to the masses, not to the select few HP junkies (which they do, in the form of a Cobra). It's all about getting as many sales as they can.

    With that said, Ford will peak some people's interest in the projected 300 HP.. But how will that figure impact insurance rates? Especially for younger male drivers who seem to be the typical GT owner? How will that number impact overall price of the vehicle? This might make it out of the reach for some drivers, cutting into sales of the GT some.. No doubt, the 05 will sell.. But I do see sales tampering off big (at least in GT's) after the first year due to what I just mentioned. Big HP numbers does not equate to big sales, Ford found that out in the 90's.

    Ford has sold the Mustang on looks and thats how they won the pony car war with GM. If HP numbers were the factor, we'd be driving around Camaros.

    Ok I threw out some questions for you guys to think about. Costs might not even be a factor, but it's something to consider.
  2. Look at the other cars males that are obsessed with speed would drive. They are all powerful and have high horsepower out put. SRT-4,RX-8,S2000...all are going to be among the vehicles considered by those young males who buy their cars based on performance and all those cars either have high insurance rates now or will soon(the SRT-4 has low insurance now but go hang out on the srtforums and you'll see how many of these cars are getting into accidents are being totaled it's a given the insurance folks will catch on). Also considering the GT's competitors will also have big horse power numbers(the potential Charger new Camaro) it won't adversely affect the sales on these cars. The Mustang isn't a stand alone vehicle and high insurance rates on other cars will even out high insurance rates on the Mustang.
  3. From what I see out on the street looking and sounding fast is more important that actually being fast. I'd also guess that the GT is going to appeal more to slightly older and more affluent males--late 20s to mid 40s, and 300HP is probably plenty for most. I think most of the younger kids will think the Mustang is too retro and stick to Honduhs with silly wheels, wings and fart pipes.

    ENOUGH of this AFFORDABILITY crap. Then was THEN, NOW IS NOW.

    Mercedes dealerships are FLOODED and cant even make enough E55 AMG's to cater to the customers who want them. And those are $100K+.

    Evo's are going out the doors very quickly, so are the STI's, I dont see a problem, they want the POWER behind the 4wd yes, but its the POWER than influences their purchase.

    300hp is NOT plenty. If it was 315~325hp, that would be PLENTY. Those 15-25hp is a STEP forward of the competition.

    Your comparing the MUSTANG to a CHARGER, open your eyes, plenty of other vehicles are out there with 280+hp without much insurance problems.

    Its all in the car and how it is built, if it is rigid and handles collisions well, then insurance wont be THAT high.

    See FORD doesnt make money on the V6's, that is a large VOLUME sale. The V8's are the money makers who make the most money for Ford and are the most profitable. Dont believe me? Look at Ford sale statistics.

    Problem is what I think is that nobody wants to buy the GT's as it isnt "potent" enough. Also the same dashboard layout for about 10 years doesnt help in sales neither towards a newer buyer.

    V6's sell because for looks. For performance, people rather have BETTER than the GT's.

    Cobras sell pretty well if you ask me and I am guessing people jump straight to the COBRA for performance and skip the GT's.

    Just my opinions so dont hurt me.

  5. You got part of it right. It IS about selling cars.

    I think 300 HP is a good number. Even in the muscle car heyday, the Hi Po 289 was rated at 271 HP, and this was with a solid lifter cam, higher compression, etc. The Shelby GT350's were rated at like 305 or 310 or so...and again, this was in the era of $.10 105 octane LEADED fuel.

    The 96-98 Cobras were rated at 305 HP, and even the 1999 and 2001 Cobras were only 320.

    I think Ford has a very good strategy, The V6 will be bought by parents for their kids to drive to school, that don't want them in a road rocket.

    The GT will be bought by some kids, but is targetted mostly at adults that either had mustangs when they were younger, or are into that sort of thing now. I would be willing to predict that these will really appeal to the 40-50 somethings, and also to the 30 somethings (myself) that grew up in the heyday of the 5.0 Fox body.

    The Cobra is going to appeal to the gearhead, speedfreak, gruntjunkie. This is also the car that will give Ford Bragging rights among such rides as the Viper, and whatever high end Vette comes out, and hopefully for $10K - $15K less than them...just like the 2003 Cobra.

    I can see where Ford is going with this.

    A 200 HP V6, a 300 HP GT, 330-360HP (My estimate) special editions, and a 450HP (my estimate) Cobra. I think it's a good strategy.

  6. Are you smoking crack or something? :D There's a dealer down the road from me that has 10 Evo's sitting on the lot, and they've been there for quite a while. Each of the three local Subaru dealerships has four STi's. The Ford dealer has 17 '03 Cobras. High horsepower expensive cars are a *niche* market, and it's been flooded past capacity.

    It's not about how much power the car has, it's about who drives it, how they drive it, and how much it costs to fix. My 95 GT costs me more to insure than my 99 Cobra convertible did.

    Back to what I said earlier. With so many Cobras still on the lot, even at $28k, they're not exactly selling pretty well.

    People aren't looking for silly amounts of horsepower, most are really happy with the performance of 300 hp (and if you use anywhere near 300 hp on the road in daily driving and a cop sees you do it, you'll get a speed racing ticket... at least where I live). They want comfort, some power, some handling, etc. Only us drag racing junkies want more horsepower at the exclusion of all else :D.

  7. I can see everybody's point but as a 23 yr old who bought his 1st V8 Mustang as a 2000 in April 2000 as a 20 yr old I can say that I will likely buy another GT in 2006/2007. I bought the car cuz my previous 1999 V6 was too slow. I will never buy another V6, not even for my kids if I ever have any. But if my current Stang hangs out long enough I hope I may have a son one day who'll be driving a classic. 300HP is a good, decent amount of HP for the average V8 Mustang buyer who wants mod potential & gives a rats about insurance rates, gas prices, cops, or monthly payment amounts.
  8. I had a friend that bought a WRX STI becuase the Mustang didn't have enough power for him (and the Cobra was more than he wanted to spend)

    THe Mustang GT needs to keep up with cars like the Evo and STI as far as HP goes
  9. I reasearched this a couple of years ago. The typical Mustang GT buyer (for a new car ) is almost 50 years old and male. IIRC about 65% of Mustang GT buyers were over 40 years old. V6 customers were somthing like 65% female and under 40 years old.

    However, I think you are making a vaild point. That is Ford needs to come out with a PERFORMANCE model of the V6 Mustang to attract younger customers to the new Mustang. I'd say that they should make a new Pony model with the Duratec 35 pumping out 250 HP / 260 lb ft on 87 octane gas with dual exhaust and 17" tires and some other unique body trim pieces. Performance would be reasonable and so would total cost of ownership including insurance.
  10. Is there really a difference in price between an STi and an '03 Cobra coupe? :shrug: I thought they were in the same price range.

  11. They are pretty similar. But actually an 03 or 04 Cobra runs more so I could understand buying an STI over a Cobra. But I look at it as why not fork out the extra 3-5k and buy a Cobra? Ford should market a Supercharged V6 as well, as long as output does not exceed the GT. And GT output should be increased so the Supercharged V6 can really soar. I still would opt for a GT but I know there'd me many interested in a really-running V6.
  12. I wish I could find out where people get these screaming good deals. Around here, the Suby dealers want $32k for an STi, but the Ford dealer will let me walk away with a Cobra for $28k. :shrug:

  13. I've heard that several dealers have been charging a premium on the evo as well. I read a while ago the evo fans were not buying them in protest of the added on price. I personally could care less if the gt has 300 hp. And some people are disappointed. i'mnot I don't have to prove anything to any evo/wrx/sti/srt-4/GTO/camaro. Look at the weight distribution on the gt. If the irs ends up in the cobra. It should make for nearly perfect 50/50 weight distribution.
  14. if ford listened to us the enthusiasts, they would have a 4v 380 hp GT and a 550 hp Cobra, and the V6 would probably have a turbo on it and spin about 300 hp...but they don't, they listen to their accountants and economists and those people tell them the most profitable way to do things. ford is a company and therefore interested in making as much money as possible so more people (all of us) will buy stock and therefore make the company worth more. also, i realize how important it is for a company to retain its fan base, so don't try to point that out to me. perhaps ford just forgets its fans from time to time. you have to think about how many people as a percentage actually buy a mustang and then modify it versus how many people just buy it and drive it.

    that being said, i'd love to see a GT with maybe 340 hp, and i think that it wouldn't be too hard for FoMoCo to do. I'd also love to see a stock cobra beat the corvette into submission. that however, probably won't happen. as it is, i am pretty happy to see some progress in the horsepower department, because 260 hp from a V8 is pathetic.
  15. Yeah but if ford listened to those same fans they would try to price the car at $5k. I think they are listening to us. They are giving us a good base and then let us do what we want.
  16. Dang guys I don't where you are shopping but let me know. Around here they want $35k for a Cobra, and they #39k+ for an STI, which I think is rediculous for a car with pink decals :rlaugh:

  17. They're not PINK! They are Salmon :rolleyes:

    Actually, I think they are called "Cherry" by Subaru and STI.

    $39,000 is extremely steep for an STI though :nonono:
  18. The EVO's and STi's are too expensive, too small and too ugly. The Mustang GT and Cobras are better. And for the price they are fast enough. The ricer wanna be muscle cars like the EVO and STi are just wanna be muscle cars.
  19. Before you call a car "small" take a look at the dimensions of the car and compare them to the Mustang. You might be shocked.
    Before you call something "too expensive" remember one rule of sales. Any item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
    Calling a car "ugly" is nothing more than an opinion and has no factual data to support it.
    As far as calling these 2 cars "wanna be muscle cars", I am sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. These cars were never meant to be anything but street legal WRC race cars. A "Muscle car" is nothing more than a 60's American term that has carried on to this millenium and been diluted along the way. A Muscle car was a larger sedan with an even larger engine. Not a compact 4 banger with turbo and AWD. They are not even close to the same animal, they aren't even in the same exhibit in the zoo.
    Unfortunately, the STI and EVO are both capable of surprising the unsuspecting Cobra owner.