I inherited a motor and much much more

[Justin87]

Hello all,

Today basically I inherited a massive amount of parts from a family friend who is moving out of state and liquidating his collection. I did pay for all this stuff, but it was so cheap it feels like an inheritance. I got:

MM adjustable upper/lower control arms
MM subframes
BMR Upper/lower Torque box reinforcements
SVE aluminum radiator
BBK ceramic coated headers
Smog delete kit
AC delete kit
Mishimoto Trans cooler
Mishimoto oil catch can
FRPP 3:55 gear set
93 Cobra Tail Lights
C4 Trans
Decently built motor.

All this stuff new in box (except for the motor and transmission obviously but those have been rebuilt). I don't even know if I'll end up using all this stuff, but honestly he was getting rid of it all so cheap I just went for it.

Anyways...

So this original Y block 302 was professionally built 5 years ago for one of his project cars, and never used. It's been on a stand, wrapped in plastic, and in a climate controlled garage ever since. It's extremely clean, and looks basically brand new. I need some help figuring out what he might have in it. He is in the middle of packing up his entire house and moving out-of-state and has not come across the build sheets yet. (when he finds them, I'll get them from him)

In the mean time... the motor

- machined out to a 306 (I know what you are thinking, everyone says they have a 306, but I have known this guy for like 10+ years so I tend to believe him)
- Trick Flow Heads (not sure if twisted wedge or 11R)
- Trick Flow Stage 1 cam (I think)
- DSS 1.6 rockers
- DSS Rods
- DSS Pro Tray

That's all just stuff I can see from looking at it. The motor as some minor surface rust on the front of the crank, and on some of the mounting surfaces, but basically looks to be very very clean. I'm just in a little over my head because this appears to be all pretty high-end stuff that I'm unfamiliar with.

Basically my questions are:

1. How can I tell what I am looking at? (IE what should I remove and where else should I look to check part numbers? I'd like to know about the crank, pistons, etc)
2. Would removing the timing chain and cam thrust plate allow me to see some ID number on the cam?
3. With a motor that has been sitting for this long, what should I do/replace to make sure it'll actually run?


By all means, let me know if something seems off.

 

[08GT500]

Hi,
That’s great you’re ahead with a good group of parts & a motor, too!::Jealous!
I have a few comments, not cutting this up- just letting you what I see (or don’t) in Pics-k?
TrickFlow 11R Heads are CNC Ported, I believe those to be Stage 1 TrickFlow TW 170cc Heads, 2.02/1.60’s. Great Street Heads! No Guide plates noted, (should be run, aligns Rocker tips to Valve Stems, great Insurance).Treat this as if you don’t know P/V clearance yet. You don’t. You’re going to need to remove the Heads if the below paragraph is true..
Curiously, I see no Head Gaskets under the Heads, no Cups under the Valvesprings- (they’ll eat through shims & into the Aluminum Heads without them, May just be the pic, but I don’t see any). Also don’t see Washers under the Head Bolts, May again be the Pic’s..You need to verify(?). ARP Studs are preferable- not required, but if you need to remove them, anyway.....maybe topend was just being Mocked up?
DSS H Beam Rods, Studded Mains..get the #’s off the Crank & Google them. D.R.Timing set is Cast. DSS makes Pistons, too. Somebody liked DSS..Rockers, Rods. Windage/Stud Girdle. Maybe Pistons, too. Possibly even a DSS prepped Shortblock...(?)
A small Borescope (50-100$) is highly useful when viewing Pistons, through the Plug hole, or from bottom up, flattop w/reliefs, dished, domed, it’s generally marked. Once you know Cylinders, topend are OK, no rust -confirmed, try the below testing to ID Cam.
Cam info is typically stamped on the end opposite the Cam Gear, but use of a dial indicator on the Valvespring retainer will yield you great information, throw a 60$ Summit Degree wheel on (Comes with Dial indicator, all you need now) & you can map out all lift & Duration events, then find the Cam that Matches.
By rotating the Motor with the Crank Bolt...Think it’s a TrickFlow Cam Stage 1? lift with 1.6 Rockers: (0.499/.0510), Stage 2 (0.542/0.563), etc. You can also verify whether it’s a single pattern (Ford Racing Alphabet Cams, E-303 (0.498/.0498 lift), etc.) or a split pattern Cam by comparing lift numbers @ full Intake & Exhaust Valve lift. If the lift #’s are the same, you have a single pattern Cam. Push on the rear of a Rocker, if it collapses the Lifter, slightly- Cam is Hydraulic Roller, if not..a Solid Roller.
Looks like it was a Shop built Short-block & long Block build was underway. DSS sitelink below.
Good luck! John

Forged Piston | Stroker Kits | Crate Engines

 

[Justin87]

Hi,
That’s great you’re ahead with a good group of parts & a motor, too!::Jealous!
I have a few comments, not cutting this up- just letting you what I see (or don’t) in Pics-k?
TrickFlow 11R Heads are CNC Ported, I believe those to be Stage 1 TrickFlow TW 170cc Heads, 2.02/1.60’s. Great Street Heads! No Guide plates noted, (should be run, aligns Rocker tips to Valve Stems, great Insurance).Treat this as if you don’t know P/V clearance yet. You don’t. You’re going to need to remove the Heads if the below paragraph is true..
Curiously, I see no Head Gaskets under the Heads, no Cups under the Valvesprings- (they’ll eat through shims & into the Aluminum Heads without them, May just be the pic, but I don’t see any). Also don’t see Washers under the Head Bolts, May again be the Pic’s..You need to verify(?). ARP Studs are preferable- not required, but if you need to remove them, anyway.....maybe topend was just being Mocked up?
DSS H Beam Rods, Studded Mains..get the #’s off the Crank & Google them. D.R.Timing set is Cast. DSS makes Pistons, too. Somebody liked DSS..Rockers, Rods. Windage/Stud Girdle. Maybe Pistons, too. Possibly even a DSS prepped Shortblock...(?)
A small Borescope (50-100$) is highly useful when viewing Pistons, through the Plug hole, or from bottom up, flattop w/reliefs, dished, domed, it’s generally marked. Once you know Cylinders, topend are OK, no rust -confirmed, try the below testing to ID Cam.
Cam info is typically stamped on the end opposite the Cam Gear, but use of a dial indicator on the Valvespring retainer will yield you great information, throw a 60$ Summit Degree wheel on (Comes with Dial indicator, all you need now) & you can map out all lift & Duration events, then find the Cam that Matches.
By rotating the Motor with the Crank Bolt...Think it’s a TrickFlow Cam Stage 1? lift with 1.6 Rockers: (0.499/.0510), Stage 2 (0.542/0.563), etc. You can also verify whether it’s a single pattern (Ford Racing Alphabet Cams, E-303 (0.498/.0498 lift), etc.) or a split pattern Cam by comparing lift numbers @ full Intake & Exhaust Valve lift. If the lift #’s are the same, you have a single pattern Cam. Push on the rear of a Rocker, if it collapses the Lifter, slightly- Cam is Hydraulic Roller, if not..a Solid Roller.
Looks like it was a Shop built Short-block & long Block build was underway. DSS sitelink below.
Good luck! John

Forged Piston | Stroker Kits | Crate Engines

By all means cut it up, I’m in over my head and need all the help I can get.

My poor photography skills are most likely to blame for some of this.

1. Their are head gaskets on the motor. What brand or thickness, I have no idea.

2. The head bolts are ARP and do appear to have washers, they also have a some kind of sealant on them.

3. The guide plates you mentioned run under the rocker arms themselves correct? Because those are also there, I just didn’t get a good photo of them.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

If that's an assembled engine leave it intact until you talk to the guy you bought it from. Head bolts don't typically come with washers. I fail to believe the guy went through the trouble of lubing the heads of the head bolts, put in pushrods and bolted on rockers and then just didn't bother to use a HG, but the pic can't clarify that.

It's probably a complete DSS short block ( again,..seems prudent to ask the guy you got it from to determine that)

A " 306" means nothing more than its bored .030 over, which is absolutely normal in the course of an engine rebuild.
And......

This is a talk thread @General karthief.

 

[General karthief]

Why yes it is!
and I think I see what appears to be a head gasket too

 

[Justin87]

A " 306" means nothing more than its bored .030 over, which is absolutely normal in the course of an engine rebuild.
And......

This is a talk thread
@General karthief.

Yeah I know, I put that in their because how many people you can find on craigslist and whatnot that claim a motor to be something that it’s not. I was just saying because I personally know this guy, I’d tend to believe him that the machine work was actually done. That’s all.

And my apologies for posting in the wrong area!

 

[General karthief]

No apologies necessary, it's my job to do what mikes says
he picks on me because he does not want me to get fired!
and he is the leader of 'the league of box heads' of which I am a member.

 

[08GT500]

Hi.

By all means cut it up, I’m in over my head and need all the help I can get.

My poor photography skills are most likely to blame for some of this.

1. Their are head gaskets on the motor. What brand or thickness, I have no idea.

2. The head bolts are ARP and do appear to have washers, they also have a some kind of sealant on them.

3. The guide plates you mentioned run under the rocker arms themselves correct? Because those are also there, I just didn’t get a good photo of them.

Hi again! No- Pic’s are superior to most posted, yes- guide-plates are held in place via Screw-in Rocker Studs, grooves cut within fit around pushrods & maintain proper Rocker tip to V. stem alignment & more..
Some use one plate/ Cyl., Intake & Exhaust. Others adjustable for each Valve, independently. Peeking atop the Rockers note are all swung around, tip to rear, slightly.TrickFlow moved Valve positions slightly staggered I & E across Cylinder midline. 2,000$ Heads +/-!.
Piston C.R. contingent, you may own a planned FI project. OE Rods are the weakest 5.0 link (5/16” Rod bolts). Not anymore, DSS products throughout, potentially their Shortblock, you’ve a GREAT head start!
TF’s Cams work well for FI app’s, may even be a Custom grind. Hasn’t been degreed in, or chose to run Cam ‘Heads up’, I’m curious about the intentions, quite the Windfall!!
Cups under the Springs? I noted Head bolt washers right after posting & grease around them. I’ve yet to come across newer ARP Bolts/Studs & nuts without hardened Washers.
Still need verify there’s no rust on the Cylinder walls, prevent further rust, should be ok- in a perfect world- but check. Don’t want to Rake ANY type of new Piston Rings over that.
There is logic in the above- rather than entirely reinventing the Wheel, speaking to the friend & asking where the engine work was done & it’s intended purpose, whatever info you can get based on the specifics targeted for now will help!.
You want this “Hospital clean”.
Seal off the Motor in plastic so everything is covered but Crank & Timing Cover surfaces, remove the surface rust on the Crank with Wet type sandpaper with Oil (220 Grit) clean & Lube. Lube all carbon Steel, like the the lifter valley with light assembly Oil, carefully removeTiming Cover rust, lube. seal off head ports with paper towels stuffed in, thread spark plugs lightly in Holes. Wrap it all up tight in plastic when you’re not at it.
I’d finished a few TrickFlow TW motor’s, most recently for a customer about 6 mo’s. back, Ironically a red 89’ GT like in your pic’s.
Keep posting!! Good luck!
John

 

[Justin87]

Hi.
Hi again! No- Pic’s are superior to most posted, yes- guide-plates are held in place via Screw-in Rocker Studs, grooves cut within fit around pushrods & maintain proper Rocker tip to V. stem alignment & more..
Some use one plate/ Cyl., Intake & Exhaust. Others adjustable for each Valve, independently. Peeking atop the Rockers note are all swung around, tip to rear, slightly.TrickFlow moved Valve positions slightly staggered I & E across Cylinder midline. 2,000$ Heads +/-!.
Piston C.R. contingent, you may own a planned FI project. OE Rods are the weakest 5.0 link (5/16” Rod bolts). Not anymore, DSS products throughout, potentially their Shortblock, you’ve a GREAT head start!

Keep posting!! Good luck!
John

Thanks John!

I spoke with him today and he is still on the hunt for this motors paperwork. He's got a LOT of cars and parts he's selling off (5 different fox mustangs and 2 old mopars with many MANY associated parts) I was just trying to figure out as much as I can by looking at it. I'll probably head back over to his place this weekend and hunt for it and any other parts he may have!

The motor is all wrapped up in plastic for the time being. Cleaned up a lot of the surface rust, and hit it with some oil to keep it fresh for the time being. Next will being diging into the C4 and see what that's all about.

Have a few other pics before I wrapped it up.

 

[08GT500]

Hi, you’ve got a sweet setup, and go after extras that you may or may not need! Don’t forget the Plugs/Thread inserts for the Smog Pump Head openings, tall Valve Covers to clear the Valvetrain (T.F.’s raise the surface by .250, Stockers still too shallow), deep Pan, stuff like that he may already have. Nickle/Dime stuff isn’t really “Nickle/Dime” stuff anymore!
Huge markups every year on the same products! Fill your pockets with Money by selling off afterwards, parts are a great investment if opportunity knocks. Don’t forget about all of us, the hopelessly, incurable Pony addicts here on Stangnet (Which you’re now a sworn member of) lol! Selling here fairly helps many achieve goals otherwise unattainable.
I’m very curious about what the plans were for that Motor. I’ll be listening with your posts, as well as others to collectively help you as you move forward, so you’re running strong, as needed.
Good luck!!
-John

 

[Justin87]

Hello All!

I have the build sheets, instructions and all other assorted information from DSS Racing.

The good news is it's 100% build by them, the possible bad news, it's been sitting a lot longer than I thought. Since 2004.

looks to be pretty stout. The motor was built to be a street strip car with the C4, which I also have a build sheet for,

 

[Noobz347]

What's the going price to have someone pull this apart, replace all the soft parts, and put it back together?


What city are you in Justin?

 

[Justin87]

What's the going price to have someone pull this apart, replace all the soft parts, and put it back together?


What city are you in Justin?

That is an excellent question, and might just be where I start.

I am in south eastern Wisconsin just outside of Milwaukee.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

What's the going price to have someone pull this apart, replace all the soft parts, and put it back together?


What city are you in Justin?

And what other than a rear main seal would you call a soft part? The valve seals are probably Teflon, there's no gaskets anywhere except the head gaskets, ( and I'd leave them alone)
Put an oil pump on the engine, put a pan on it, and put that bitch in the car.

 

[Justin87]

And what other than a rear main seal would you call a soft part? The valve seals are probably Teflon, there's no gaskets anywhere except the head gaskets, ( and I'd leave them alone)
Put an oil pump on the engine, put a pan on it, and put that bitch in the car.

I like the enthusiasm!

I might get on the horn with DSS tomorrow and see what they would recommend. Figure it can't hurt. Plus I need a pump and an oil pain since this one went missing somewhere between 2004 and now.

 

[Noobz347]

And what other than a rear main seal would you call a soft part? The valve seals are probably Teflon, there's no gaskets anywhere except the head gaskets, ( and I'd leave them alone)
Put an oil pump on the engine, put a pan on it, and put that bitch in the car.

That is a euphemism for taking it apart to make certain everything is good. It's not to say that it 'ripened' over time but who knows what the true history is after the build sheet was printed?

 

[Justin87]

That is a euphemism for taking it apart to make certain everything is good. It's not to say that it 'ripened' over time but who knows what the true history is after the build sheet was printed?

I'm definitely not saying things shouldn't be pulled apart and changed, but I did buy this motor, C4 trans, and all other assorted parts, from a long time family friend who bought it and never used it. He's moving out of state and liquidated his collection of Foxbody mustangs and all associated parts. So I know for a fact that its been kept in climate controlled storage and never used. Which I think lends itself to the theory that perhaps, it might be a lot better off then an average motor thats been sitting for this long.

But I’m definitely open to suggestions! Help me get this dope motor running!

 

[90sickfox]

Stabil makes an engine fogger that lubricates cylinders that have sat for a while. I bought it from advance auto. That's the most important thing to check.

Scopes are pretty cheap now days so you may want to look inside the spark plug holes for rust. I'd fog them first and rotate the assembly by hand looking at the cylinders when they are at bottom dead center. I wouldn't expect any huge surprises.

If there's no rust inside then there's no reason to take it apart. Seals and gaskets can go bad from sitting but usually its the oil and fuel mix that sits on them and begins to break them down. That engine hasn't ever been heat cycled or ran so i doubt any of the gaskets or seals are bad....unless it has cork valve cover gaskets....those things suck.

I'm with Mike....drop it in and run it....

 

[08GT500]

Hello All!

I have the build sheets, instructions and all other assorted information from DSS Racing.

The good news is it's 100% build by them, the possible bad news, it's been sitting a lot longer than I thought. Since 2004.

looks to be pretty stout. The motor was built to be a street strip car with the C4, which I also have a build sheet for,

Hi Justin, I apologize for the lapse, it looks like we were right, a Full DSS prepped Shortblock. That’s a great setup, I’m happy you finally got that Build info so you know for certain. I’d certainly speak with D.S.S. and get a Borescope, as suggested, (best prices on Amazon, look for the best Ratings). I can give you a shot of mine- I have 3, but the one off Amazon I purchased for 75$ + change with SDR memory is the best, detachable Magnetic Screen & 720-1080P, blows my Snap-on out of the Water.
I Wouldn’t spin that Motor over one Degree until you speak to DSS, and the Pump, Tube & Pickup, Pan and non-Synthetic Oil & Filter installed you’ll run is in it, contact & follow DSS recommendations to the letter & they will feed you the specifics. The Pan will likely be a 7Qt- due to the Stud Girdle/windage, such as by Moroso, Miloden, etc.
They are liberal in applying Zinc laden Assembly Lube, everywhere, and White Lithium Grease, which stays in place with high Stiction properties. Yup- that’s a real word, lol.
We’re you able to find any other “Nickle/ Dime” parts at your Family Friends House? the TW170’s have the AIR Injection Ports, the Plugs & Threaded Inserts for them, 7-8 Bucks- other Parts like that (small parts like that murder you, eventually- from a Monetary aspect)..Tall ValveCovers, and others useful to the build, Intake, upper, lower, etc?? Still had a Plethora if extra’s a few weeks back..
The Info reflects the either the Ford Racing, or TrickFlow Cam, Id imagine (but ask DSS) whether it’s speaking of a Single pattern Cam, E-303, or another- potentially Billet Cam, and the Distributor Gear to run per the Rockwell depth of the Cam run, etc, but need to verify by build #, a T.F. Stage one is a great Cam, as is a Stage 2 but verify for certain what they gave you for Springs, TF’s with the Dual Spring setup from TF can run either a Stage 1 or 2 Cam, Coilbind is around 0.640. Came with Viton Oil Seals std, but see what they gave you for Springs, if they say “Scope it & verify it’s clean & check the Cylinders for Iron Microbe, etc”).
I don’t believe they’ll say “tear it down (Shop)” unless you find Rust in the Cylinders which I doubt, but never know.
Certainly don’t want to take new Rings over that, as we’d Originally talked about. With the 2.02/1.60 170cc Heads, what CR and Clearance do they give you for max lift & Duration, Pistons notched? They run a Torrington Thrust Assembly in it, or a Bronze Thrust Washer between the Billet Timing Gear & Retainer, Lower 9 position Timing Gear ? It’s very cool you got the info, finally!
Know you were waiting with Baited breath!
Best- John

 

[Justin87]

Hi Justin, I apologize for the lapse, it looks like we were right, a Full DSS prepped Shortblock. That’s a great setup, I’m happy you finally got that Build info so you know for certain. I’d certainly speak with D.S.S. and get a Borescope, as suggested, (best prices on Amazon, look for the best Ratings). I can give you a shot of mine- I have 3, but the one off Amazon I purchased for 75$ + change with SDR memory is the best, detachable Magnetic Screen & 720-1080P, blows my Snap-on out of the Water.
I Wouldn’t spin that Motor over one Degree until you speak to DSS, and the Pump, Tube & Pickup, Pan and non-Synthetic Oil & Filter installed you’ll run is in it, contact & follow DSS recommendations to the letter & they will feed you the specifics. The Pan will likely be a 7Qt- due to the Stud Girdle/windage, such as by Moroso, Miloden, etc.
They are liberal in applying Zinc laden Assembly Lube, everywhere, and White Lithium Grease, which stays in place with high Stiction properties. Yup- that’s a real word, lol.
We’re you able to find any other “Nickle/ Dime” parts at your Family Friends House? the TW170’s have the AIR Injection Ports, the Plugs & Threaded Inserts for them, 7-8 Bucks- other Parts like that (small parts like that murder you, eventually- from a Monetary aspect)..Tall ValveCovers, and others useful to the build, Intake, upper, lower, etc?? Still had a Plethora if extra’s a few weeks back..
The Info reflects the either the Ford Racing, or TrickFlow Cam, Id imagine (but ask DSS) whether it’s speaking of a Single pattern Cam, E-303, or another- potentially Billet Cam, and the Distributor Gear to run per the Rockwell depth of the Cam run, etc, but need to verify by build #, a T.F. Stage one is a great Cam, as is a Stage 2 but verify for certain what they gave you for Springs, TF’s with the Dual Spring setup from TF can run either a Stage 1 or 2 Cam, Coilbind is around 0.640. Came with Viton Oil Seals std, but see what they gave you for Springs, if they say “Scope it & verify it’s clean & check the Cylinders for Iron Microbe, etc”).
I don’t believe they’ll say “tear it down (Shop)” unless you find Rust in the Cylinders which I doubt, but never know.
Certainly don’t want to take new Rings over that, as we’d Originally talked about. With the 2.02/1.60 170cc Heads, what CR and Clearance do they give you for max lift & Duration, Pistons notched? They run a Torrington Thrust Assembly in it, or a Bronze Thrust Washer between the Billet Timing Gear & Retainer, Lower 9 position Timing Gear ? It’s very cool you got the info, finally!
Know you were waiting with Baited breath!
Best- John

A scope is definitely in order!

I do have the air injection port plugs for the Trick Flow heads. He gave me a whole separate packet of paperwork for the heads from Trick Flow. (I didn't post them) Mostly boiler plate stuff about installation instructions, warranty and torque specs. Along with the ARP hardware that goes with them and the California CARB information. No more emissions for this car so I will be using the plugs and ditching the air pump.

No other parts at this time. He was in the process of bundling stuff together for his ebay auctions, so he might find more stuff and if he does, he'll let me know. I'd like to get the engine and transmission at least IN the car by the end of summer so If I gotta look elsewhere for parts so be it. He's already given me a hell of a deal on everything else.

The layout of the work order is a little weird but the Ford Racing Cam is actually the X303 cam. (you can see it listed on the left). Definitely not one of the more common cams. I was also under the impression it was mostly used for stick cars (but I could be totally and completely wrong about that).

The pistons are also just described as "flat top" however the clearance might be noted someplace.

Some of the "nickle and dime" things I know I still need:

-oil pump/oil pump driveshaft
-oil pickup tube
-oil pan/hardware/gasket
-valvecovers

I will speak with DSS about some of these parts too.

(among a million other things like injectors, bigger MAF, TB, Tune, yada, yada, yada, just keeping in the realm of getting the engine rotating)

Before buying this motor I had just pulled the stock 5.0 ouf of my GT to freshen up with GT40 heads, an explorer intake, and a letter cam. So currently my plan would be to use the explorer intake for this motor. I realize that it's FAR from the best option but a Holley Systemax or Trick Flow upper/lower is going to run me a good amount. Plus I'd be concerned about those fitting under the stock hood, which I'd like to keep for now. I guess I could go carb, but that seems like a whole other can of worms for possibly another thread.