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Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by JJ88GT, May 25, 2005.
They didn't bring back the SS camaro until '97
331 stroker + boost = win
I have a 90 gt with a 5 speed with a new crate motor from Ford. It has headers an off road h pipe, flows and 373 gears. It is air pump and a/c delete, it is a strong runner. I also own a 99 WS6 that is full bolt ons and a cam, 3600 stall and 373 gears. When stock the stang would have giving the t/a a little bit of a run in 1st and second after that forget it the t/a would pretty much smoke it....And why shouldn't it in 1990 Ford did not have to compete with the LS1 for the most part the stang ruled the road until the 4th gen F body came out. The Mustang has countered with the s/c Cobra (glad my t/a is built alittle) I think when people compare the two LS1 versus the GT mustang you need to look at factory intent. Ford wanted a little screamer that the average Joe could afford and work on himself, Gm wanted a car that was for the most part already a screamer and price was not that important. I think both companys hit it out of the park in there intent. Where Gm went wrong was the Fbody should have been one model not 2 ( Camaro and Firebird)and the price was to high, most of the gearheads don't mind and even like modding there cars The LS1 is very advanced and hard to work on unless you have expensive programs and a laptop to tune with, and for the person who said I raced a LS1 with an exhaust and a chip well LS1's don't have chips you have to reprogram the computer. I don't buy into the Ford versus Gm thing they are both a hoot to drive and I love them both they are performance at its best.
You can compare whatever you want...
Fact remains though, Ford did not put a 347 with aluminum heads, 75mm TB, 28lb injectors, 3.42 gears, etc...in the fox bodies.
Can't really argue that the fox body is a better platform for drag racing though, I'd just be happy with that.
1996...not '97 or '95.
Look, let's get clear what we're talking about. GM F-bodies are fast cars. They kind of look good just sitting still too. But no other aspect of owning them is fun. I just got done changing plugs, wires, cap & rotor on a buddy's '94 LT1 Z28 F-body. It took 2 guys 2 days and three hundred fifty dollars. They are huge piles of crap. The cap & rotor alone cost $150, and you have to pull the water pump and part of the cooling system to get at it. Yes, the 350 LT1 makes gobs of power. And I am sure that the LS1 makes more. But take my word for it, '90's F-bodys blow compared to Fox body Mustangs. I have had four 5.0 cars, and also own an LT1 Caprice/Impala SS clone, and worked on my buddy's '95 SS and another buddy's '94 Z28. NO COMPARISON. If you are like any other shmuck off the street you could have walked into any GM dealer and bought an incredibly fast F-body off the showroom floor, and would blow away any Mustang off the showroom floor. But if you like to hot rod -- tune your car, hop it up, modify it, and THEN drive it -- the Fox Mustang eats GM for breakfast. Working on F-body GMs sucks, and costs at least 2-3 times as much. Sure there are guys out there that do modify F-bodys for some really insane power levels. But it's not easy, costs huge bucks, and tends not to be fun whether because you need experts to do it, or because it usually takes several tries and a bunch more parts and bucks than you thought it would. They also break down all the time. But anybody can work on a Mustang, it's cheap, reliable and yields gobs of power. Oh, I should go back to reliable. Any GM guy that says his car is reliable doesn't know what it means. People have said to me when looking at my clone that they always thought the Impala SS was cool, and now that they're somewhat affordable, should they buy one? I always say that if they don't have a spare car that runs, no way. The F-body drivetrain is identical. It takes 3 hours just to change the plugs (which cost $50 or more). Plug wires can be half to a whole day. Stuff like switches just break off in your fingers. Windows just drop down inside the doors. They have whacky cooling problems and weird electrical malfunctions. You just don't want to have to get to work in your F-body Monday morning when you start working on it Friday night. Chances are good that when you take it apart you will need another week of hunting down parts and swearing at the stuff that broke or just didn't go right, but you will still need to get to work in the meantime. Bottom line -- they're two different kinds of cars. If you like to go fast, then you can just pay someone else money and get an F-body. But if you enjoy MAKING your car go fast YOURSELF, then Fox Mustangs win hands down. And don't get intimidated if one of them dusts you off at the red light. Chances are good that he will use up his allotment of free auto club tow jobs this year, long before you even have to make that call.
regardless what everyone still says here...LS1 are still fast stock...and moded...it will take more than a set of gears to beat one...As stated earlier...it will take a nice H/C/I combo to beat one...
Didn't you already post this?
You're entitled to your own opinion (even though you've never owned one) but I highly disagree (I've owned two) but of course, maybe I've just been lucky.
Over 6 years, roughly 95k miles of daily driving 4th gen F-bodies and I've had to replace (fix) one opti, one starter, one torsen diff and three window motors...that's it. Both cars were/are also modded (by me & friends) and had prolly about 100 passes between them.
FYI, NGK TR55 plugs are less than $2 a piece...you don't have to buy $8-10/piece platinum plugs.
Run what you brung...
Ls1 would easily pull that 100mph trapping car...EASY.
What mods do you have? Also don't outrule the driver...I have met much more worse driver's (especially on the street) than I have good...
Of course they are two different cars: Two different generations.
Actually the 5.0L doesn't need a 347 and even if it did you would have to make the playing level as level as possible. You should know good and well that the "stock" ls1 346 engine doesn't have higher ported AFR's or better flowing intakes or aggressive camshafts or even other "bigger" parts because GM made it more driveable. They could have went in and slapped on heads/cam and dyno 400+rwhp easy...but they didn't. Even most 347 cars (in the 5.0L) are having problems hitting 400rwhp easy with some aggressive setups.
GM did a great job...they simply couldn't sell the mustang...more to do with aesthetic reasons IMO...because that is what the average consumer/buyer goes for - otherwise known as "First Impressions".
I agree partly...but...
Actually the ls1 is very cheap in price...and possibly has a better ratio to inflation/demand than the 5.0L did in it's time if you compare similar trimmings.
You could get a 98 Z 6spd for 21k new...
Some of the 5.0L's "back then" were selling upwards of 16k or so...and look what you "get" with the ls1 compared to the 5.0L....
Ls1 cared very much on the price and happened to build a nice reliable car that could put down conistent 290-300rwhp curve and have all the docile manners most need...
I think your right...they should have kept it to one model...more specific that way...it is almost like they had to compete with each other
I don't believe the 5.0L engine was made for the average joe (buyer) to work on...they would rather you come into the dealership and get jipped...
Also ='s Empty Wallet
02ls1 - I agree with what you say
113mph with full exhaust and couple "little" bolt-ons (Proof enough right there)
Yes 96 was the year model (305hp)...for the SS.
the funny thing is that yes, the 5.0 mustang is dead in the water stock vs stock against an ls1, and many have complained about why ford went with the modular engine over "refining" the pushrod. many people seem to forget about the '03-04 Cobra. Especially GM guys who start crying foul because it comes with a blower from the factory. as someone posted here , run what you brought, same goes for ls1's versus Cobras. run what you brung. no excuses.
To the people who keep ripping my posts apart in this thread, PAY ATTETION TO THIS....
I did not say anything about a stock or modified this, beating a stock or modified that.
A couple people said that you had to have a H/C/I 5.0 to run with an LS1. I just stated you do not, which is FACT. If you need that stuff on your car to run with an LS1, maybe you should learn how to drive. Go back and read again, this time pay attention.
To whoever suggested that I may not own both, 5 of my 6 foxes (one is in the warehouse at work) and my C5 are in the driveway. If your so insecure that you need proof, why don't you come by on June 25th and take a look. While your here I could use some help unloading my new FFR MkIII Roadster.
You are appearantly an idiot, that is not what I said. Go read it again, this time pay attention.
Someone once said, "There is no substitute for cubic inches."
"no replacement for displacement"....which is partly true...except when it comes to technology and forced induction
BTW-this saying was 'invented' back in the day, now we have the 281cubic inch 4valves making WAY more power than 302's and even ~350 lt1's/ls1's
Being a Ford man myself (3 Mustangs, a Crown Vic and a Town Car), I have to say being smoked by a 4 door sedan wouldn't be much fun. Below is a link to the car my son is driving. He let me drive it, too. The traction control engaged every shift except the 5-6 shift. It's bone stock (expensive, though) and it'll do 155 top end. 4 door, family car?
All I am saying is a stock Fox unfortunetly is no match for a stock LS1, so, as stated, some provisions must be given to the stang.
[/QUOTE]Ls1 would easily pull that 100mph trapping car...EASY.[/QUOTE]
I have witnessed a bone stock(had an o/r H) 87 notch back with 4.10's and BF drag radials run in th 13.2x 's all day, how fast does a LS1 run in the 1/4? If by "pull that 100mph trapping car" you mean after the 1/4, the race is already over.
[/QUOTE]What mods do you have?[/QUOTE]
My current setup and future setups are in my garage.
Not looking for an argument. but lighten up and quite ripping apart everyone's posts.
That is funny...what was that example about your 86 vs. your C5? That is one...there are others...
Do you think we fall for that?
We said to BEAT one...
We have payed attention but your having a comprehension problem between E.T. and MPH at the track. You might want to go to your local track and check it out.
A car that runs 13.0 at 102mph will get pulled hard (starting around midway down the track) by an ls1 that runs 13.2 at 109mph...
You need to learn more about the cars you own...so anyways...what are your mods to your 86?
Name calling eh? Losing control? How bout I post what you put...how else can it be read...?
Yep, your right...that just wasn't the way it came off...
The ls1's run anywhere from 12.9 to 13.5's depending on year/trim/tranny. But they trap anywhere from 105-110mph STOCK which is much higher than the 87 you posted will run. He would be around 99mph most likely...if I were to guess.
The pull would start pretty quickly. Once the 5.0L got in 3rd you would notice it...and it would be significant.
Again E.T's don't show the quicker car. Just from point A to point B...but to bad the gap gets shut down very quickly the further you go on the track.
Neither am I on this. I am always calm when talking about stangs...why shouldn't I be? If ripping apart "someones" post is me correcting some misguided info then I am guilty