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Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by armand67Fstback, Aug 27, 2008.
they also seem to have a youtube channel
YouTube - mandrmotors's Channel
Thanks for the info on BAR. I am in the beginning stages of the problem with M & R Motors; aka M & R Engines. Here is a little more info; What I discovered was he used stock 1993 hypereutectic pistons which will not accept larger than standard valves. It has been a month since I returned the pistons to him (at my cost, I was trying to be nice, and I know people make mistakes; call me nieve or just stupid, its ok as that's how I'm feeling. Matt did acknowledge he received them (after I called at least three times) and he was going to complete his work and send them back; that was three weeks ago and I do not have the pistons, and he is ignoring my calls since then (seven calls since then). I don't know if he is just stringing me along, or what, maybe this is just the way he deals with people when there is a problem. But, before the sale, he would answer his phone and return your call. So far, I have started a complaint with the BBB, contacted a legal office that deals with the small claims process, and posted warnings at a couple of other sites. What seems apparent, is that that guy is being a real butt, and really has all those who purchased from him over a barrel; you can wait on him and hope he does what he promised, or get others involved which will likely piss him off and then he'll send the parts back unrepaired or with some defect that you can't see. It seems there is no way to have a good outcome from dealing with M & R Engines. Here is some advice to all those looking for a good engine builder and a fair price; find a shop close to your home (reasonable driving distance), get everything in writing, all promises warrantees, etc. cause if you have a problem will be a lot easier to handle if they are close to home.
I am sorry to hear you guys are having such a hard time with builders in Southern Cali.
I deal with builders all over the country and Ford guys you have it easy here...
L & R Automotive/Demon Engines-Santa Fe Springs
Ford Performance Solutions-Anaheim
Tg's Performance-Lawndale-(owner races his cougar at Irwindale)
Power Heads Performance-Wildomar
The Balance Shop-Reseda (Ford/Chevy)
I would trust any of these guys with my engines before anybody else in SoCal
I was wondering has anyone be in this shop in person? I know some of us have ordered on the phone, but Im curious if has anyone even gone to that shop.
I know the best way for me to collect on small claims was that I knew his employer. Sent the sheriffs to his company with the judgement. The DA's office attached his wages. So any of his financial institutions in his name would do! Might not help if he's a professional dodger.
Thanks for the updates. Let us know when that Ford motor comes in!!
hey it seems that the number they have on their site is disconnected, any have a new number?
Is his ebay store gone too?
It's about a half hour ride for me. I'll try to drive by tonight and see if his business is still there.
rwcstang, Did you read up on collecting on your small claims court win?
Just an FYI:
Collecting On Small Claims Judgments - Lawyers.com
The decals they had on the doors are GONE. No company name on the address. If you 'google' their address, and did 'street view'. It's a shot probably from a few years ago. The motorhome is still there. But the cars in the back fence area are gone. Next to the Motorhome is a 20' container.....
Hope it turns out good for you.
I won be default. He still didnt pay after his 30 days were up i was going through other options... but I have a bad feeling now...thnx for swingin by there.
it seems the online website it still on..but the ebay store is gone.
M & R Engines
I did business with them once, and I would NOT do repeat business with them.
To those who have read my earlier post, I was lucky to have them replace my old pistons with new ones. Hopefully, they will perform well and I can forget about this experience.
I would advise that anyone who reads this, to do business with someone in your local area; maybe use the ebay pricing as a barganing chip to get a cheaper price.
I too found M&R on ebay whilst looking for a new create engine (chev. sorry guys) anyway my story with this clown goes like this. I live in Melbourne Australia and was planning a visit to CA so I figured whislt I was there I'd by myself a new donk (aussie slang for motor)for the hot rod i'm building, so to play it safe i'd arranged to visit M&R meet the guy take a look at the set up and if comfortable purchase the donk, the meeting went well and a deal was done.
I'd put about $12k cash on a debit card before I left Oz which works like a credit card except it uses my cash funds, I gave the card to Matt who swiped it thru his machine and as luck would have it it didn't work on his sytem so I ended up putting a $6k deposit on my credit card, why lucky? because I paid via my CC i was able to dispute the transaction and get my money back thru my CC provider, If the debit card had of worked I would now be out of pocket $6k and most likely on a plane back to the states to deal with him face to face.
Here's the first letter I wrote him after 12 weeks of waiting
As you're aware, I came to your place of business on 26 October 2009 and arranged for you to build a 383 chev, fitted with mass flow injection In good faith I paid you a deposit of USD$6000 to commence building this motor with final payment to be made prior to shipment to Australia.
At the time of purchase you indicated to me that to supply all the necessary parts and build the motor would take approximately 6 weeks. It's now been 12 weeks and I’ve struggled to hear very much from you at all in relation to the build. As I’m sure you can appreciate, the deposit I paid to you was a significant amount and was proof of my commitment to honor our agreement.
Due to the fact that I've paid you a deposit and have not received anything apart from broken promises from you, I'm now in doubt that the motor actually exists.
I appreciate that you have had health problems and that this has delayed the build, but I now require a definite delivery date, photo evidence and dyno reports to ease my concern, otherwise I will have no other choice but to cancel my order and seek reimbursement through my credit card provider. Obviously, this is not my first choice, as I believed your commitment to honor our agreement was genuine and you also have your own reputation to uphold, but given that there is considerable distance between us and the lack of communication or physical evidence from you, I assume that you will understand my caution at this point in time.
Please reply to this email by midnight on 29 January or reimbursement proceedings will commence.
First of all, I want to sincerely apologize for the lengthy build time and poor communication. Every point of concern in your letter is justified and deserving.
I would like you to know that I am a man of my word and do deliver what I promise and contract to. It would be of no benefit to me to do otherwise.
My health issues became apparent just before the holidays. Among other treatments I was advised to avoid stress and work. For someone who has not taken a vacation in a decade that was hard to do. In hindsight, I realized that I designed a company that does not run effectively without my presence. I failed to delegate and train others to do the tasks that I regarded only I could be trusted to do.
The dyno control, its safe operation and some technical aspects are among those key tasks. With regards to your engine I told Curtis that I would be back on Jan 11th to set up the EFI, intake and run the dyno session. I really was not quite ready to be back full time. After I spoke with you on the phone and you told me that the engine was probably going to sit on the floor for 12 months I made the assumption that it could wait a little bit until I could give it its proper due. I made that assumption incorrectly and for that I am sorry.
You are correct that the communication has been poor at best. I instructed the guys at the shop to not worry about the phone and just return voicemail during the day. I had them take care of the simpler builds at hand and keep product moving out the door until I was back.
My full time return will be on Monday. However, I am going to the shop tomorrow to photo and e-mail you with date proof of your engine that does exist.
I fully understand if you want to cancel the order although that is not what I wish for either. If that is what you choose I will regretfully comply. In any event I will contact you again tomorrow.
My reply and the end of the deal
Thanks for sending me a couple of pictures of my motor as you promised, however from previous emails and from what you told me, I expected to see a more complete engine with the mass flow injection fitted etc and ready to go on the dyno.
In an email sent to me by Curtis on 8 January 2010, I was lead to believe that the motor was finished and would go on the dyno the following day (9 January). From the pictures you’ve sent me, it’s quite apparent that half the motor is missing and it's no where near complete enough to go on the dyno. Also in Curtis’ email, his next sentence asked how I wanted to pay for the motor. I replied that I wanted to see proof that the motor was finished, along with a list of parts used in the build before I would authorize payment. I found this email request for payment to be insulting as the agreement we had was that you would provide me with pictures, dyno report and an engine ready for shipment..
The next contact I had with your company was you ringing me to tell me that the motor wouldn’t be complete by the date that I had a container leaving the USA (12 January). I remember saying to you that I wasn’t in a screaming hurry for the motor and that it would most likely sit under a bench for the next 12 month or so, but I also said I’d like to see some pictures and get a progress report etc. You replied that I would receive some pictures by “the end of the week” and as we both know that didn’t happen.
You’ll understand why I’m confused and was in doubt that the motor existed because of the mixed and contradictive messages I’ve received from both you and Curtis.
In your email to me you say that you’re, “a man of my word” and “do deliver what I promise and contract to”. I, too, consider myself to be a fair and honest businessperson who expects the same from my suppliers. The fact is that I have given you in good faith, a substantial deposit for an engine built to my specifications and in return the information I’ve received from both you and Curtis appears at best to be a mis-communication between you and Curtis, and at worst not totally truthful and proactive. This has made me feel uncomfortable with my contract with M & R Engines.
For this reason and to cover myself, I’ve put in a complaint to my credit card provider which will not be revoked until I’m satisfied that you are living up to your end of our bargain by providing me with detailed and truthful progress reports and a firm shipment date. Your failure to provide the above will result in the cancellation of our agreement and my pursuing a full refund of my deposit through my credit card provider.
As stated previously, this is not the course of action I wish to undertake as I believe your commitment to honor our agreement is genuine, however I have a large deposit to safeguard as you have your company’s reputation to uphold. I trust that we have confidence in each other to put this negative start behind us and to fulfill our contract, however I expect to receive at your earliest convenience (and as the build progresses towards completion) photographic evidence of my motor being built, including the installation of the mass flow injection and other parts we agreed on including the actual dyno reports, etc.
If, as I suspect, the engine is not yet this complete, then I need to understand at exactly what point I will receive the evidence I have requested. It would be appreciated if you could telephone me to discuss the contents of this letter and to determine a positive way forward.
Time isn’t the major factor for me as I said previously, I’m really not in a screaming hurry to get my hands on the engine. Because I also run a small business, I fully understand “things’ can come up unexpectedly such as your health issues, staff problems, equipment failures along with suppliers not delivering on time etc. However considering the long distance between us communication is the key issue for me here and of the upmost importance and will prevent situations such as this recurring.
Need I say steer well clear of M&R motors
^ health problems? what a load of bull.
hhead- by any chance did you go during work hours? just asking.
Im wondering whats your guys is update so far? just curious.
No, it was late in the evening by the time I got out there.
Hope you can collect on your case! Hoping someone 'googles' M&R and ends up here, with info for you.
Now that would be a plus for the internet.
I won't be able to get there during the day for a few weeks at least. But I'll try. At least to see if the doors are open.
cool thanks hhead. ill update whats going when i get new info.
See if he was incorperated. If he wasn't, then you should be able to have his wages garnished.
I think when you get professional dodgers, or people who know they are going under, will do their best to hide their assets. Making it more difficult to collect. The link earlier to collecting on small claims had some ideas. I was lucky in my small claims, that he was employed, and the employer was huge. It wasn't closing shop to not make any refunds.
That's why I hope others who 'google', come here to read this thread, might just have some info for rwcstang to go on. To get him and others who have been taken, justice!
Just a bump. I'll try to make it out there this week for a drive. If the doors are open, maybe Ill pretend to be looking for a 'killer' motor, made by a reputable shop! LOL!
Too bad they closed their fleabay store. I could have said I saw him on fleabay.
If anything I know matt Is reading this as we type this... If ur reading this Matt Im on your ass n it stinks. I aint done with you yet.
hhead just wanted to say thanks for gong out there man. lemme know what goes on.