Maf?
- Thread starter The Shadow...
- Start date
-
Sponsors (?)
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Ford P/Ns use "E" for the 1980s, "F" is for the 1990s. 2nd digit = 2nd yr digit. So, yours is a 1991 designed for a 55mm diameter MAF tube calibrated for stock 5.0 19lb injectors. Have a box of 25-30 of em’ just like it at the shop.
MAF Diameter is at least equal, if not a few mm larger- than the TB, calibration of the MAF- (like all the Mfg’s) is sized to the injectors you’re running.
Either of the below will make it MUCH more fun! BBK..
www.americanmuscle.com
Or Pro-M..
https://lmr.com/item/PMA-12579AF/1989-93-Mustang-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-24Lb
Any questions, feel free!
Good luck!
-John
Ford P/Ns use "E" for the 1980s, "F" is for the 1990s. 2nd digit = 2nd yr digit. So, yours is a 1991 designed for a 55mm diameter MAF tube calibrated for stock 5.0 19lb injectors. Have a box of 25-30 of em’ just like it at the shop.
MAF Diameter is at least equal, if not a few mm larger- than the TB, calibration of the MAF- (like all the Mfg’s) is sized to the injectors you’re running.
Either of the below will make it MUCH more fun! BBK..
BBK Mustang Mass Air Meter for Cold Air Intake and 24 lb. Fuel Injectors 8004 (86-93 Mustang) - Free Shipping
FREE SHIPPING! No More Pegging. The BBK 76MM Mass Air Meter Sensor is great for modified and custom applications where the stock mass air meter pegs due to incr
www.americanmuscle.com
https://lmr.com/item/PMA-12579AF/1989-93-Mustang-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-24Lb
Any questions, feel free!
Good luck!
-John
ThanksHi,
Ford P/Ns use "E" for the 1980s, "F" is for the 1990s. 2nd digit = 2nd yr digit. So, yours is a 1991 designed for a 55mm diameter MAF tube calibrated for stock 5.0 19lb injectors. Have a box of 25-30 of em’ just like it at the shop.
MAF Diameter is at least equal, if not a few mm larger- than the TB, calibration of the MAF- (like all the Mfg’s) is sized to the injectors you’re running.
Either of the below will make it MUCH more fun! BBK..
Or Pro-M..BBK Mustang Mass Air Meter for Cold Air Intake and 24 lb. Fuel Injectors 8004 (86-93 Mustang) - Free Shipping
FREE SHIPPING! No More Pegging. The BBK 76MM Mass Air Meter Sensor is great for modified and custom applications where the stock mass air meter pegs due to incr
https://lmr.com/item/PMA-12579AF/1989-93-Mustang-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-24Lb
Any questions, feel free!
Good luck!
-John
So it's just plug it in... Nothing else needed? What kind of difference would there be with what I have now and one of these maf's.
On a different thread someone mentioned that with my engine combo that my injectors should be 30lb.s(331 stroker afr 185 heads, 70 mm tb, nx274hr cam)
On a different thread someone mentioned that with my engine combo that my injectors should be 30lb.s(331 stroker afr 185 heads, 70 mm tb, nx274hr cam)
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
In general, you don’t want the duty cycle of the injectors to exceed above 85-87%, high end. Open/close times are too close; inconsistent. I’ll Ballpark Crank HP based on parts listed & what works from there.. I have no data on your upper & lower intake, if you’re running 68cc or 72cc chamber AFR 185’s & what Piston cc’s for a static C.Ratio.
If it were me & it was a “capable” DD, biased hot street w/EFI run a 10:1 CR on Pump Gas, on a fresh 331CID platform with a port matched Cobra upper*, Comp 274hr Cam degreed in w/1.6 R.R., (Similar to a TF#2 Cam w/improved scavenging) running a solid expert ported/polished & port matched GT40 (Ford Explorer Lower..the big restriction), a set of Tuned 1-3/4” longtubes. Free flowing 2.5”Exhaust.
H/X Exhaust (SLP loudmouths).
The stroker combo (if the hypothetical’s are close) you have there should have no issue making 380-395 BHP if it’s running a solid Dyno Tune, without the laughing gas. If an OE block, IMO, I’d be cautious with a 50 Shot. OE blocks over 450HP have a tendency to crack.
Using the higher # of 395 BHP rounded up to 400 BHP..
At 39.15lbs Delta fuel pressure regulated across the injector (BSFC @0.50=400Hp*50= 200lbs/Hr.^ 8 injectors= 25lb’s, at an 85% Duty cycle, 25lb^0.85= 29.41 Lbs. Rounded to the nearest, 30lb injectors @ an 85% Duty Cycle. I’m interested in the actual build details, I do agree that 30lb injectors are a better match than 24’s for this App. Be very happy to run through it with the missing details filled in.
Running that 75mm MAF calibrated to the 24lb injectors should certainly wake it right up, it’s likely running rich yet feels held back. Adding 30lb injectors with the #30lb calibrated MAF would be more logical, if the rest of the build is matched for it’s potential to be reached.
In addition to the blanks being filled in, would be interesting & important to know what Tuning has been performed.
-Sounds like a nice build w/lots of potential.
-John
Note:* (better-Ported & Polished Trickflow Trackheat upper/lower, Best-1Pc.EFI injector Intake w/bolt on Plenum).
In general, you don’t want the duty cycle of the injectors to exceed above 85-87%, high end. Open/close times are too close; inconsistent. I’ll Ballpark Crank HP based on parts listed & what works from there.. I have no data on your upper & lower intake, if you’re running 68cc or 72cc chamber AFR 185’s & what Piston cc’s for a static C.Ratio.
If it were me & it was a “capable” DD, biased hot street w/EFI run a 10:1 CR on Pump Gas, on a fresh 331CID platform with a port matched Cobra upper*, Comp 274hr Cam degreed in w/1.6 R.R., (Similar to a TF#2 Cam w/improved scavenging) running a solid expert ported/polished & port matched GT40 (Ford Explorer Lower..the big restriction), a set of Tuned 1-3/4” longtubes. Free flowing 2.5”Exhaust.
H/X Exhaust (SLP loudmouths).
The stroker combo (if the hypothetical’s are close) you have there should have no issue making 380-395 BHP if it’s running a solid Dyno Tune, without the laughing gas. If an OE block, IMO, I’d be cautious with a 50 Shot. OE blocks over 450HP have a tendency to crack.
Using the higher # of 395 BHP rounded up to 400 BHP..
At 39.15lbs Delta fuel pressure regulated across the injector (BSFC @0.50=400Hp*50= 200lbs/Hr.^ 8 injectors= 25lb’s, at an 85% Duty cycle, 25lb^0.85= 29.41 Lbs. Rounded to the nearest, 30lb injectors @ an 85% Duty Cycle. I’m interested in the actual build details, I do agree that 30lb injectors are a better match than 24’s for this App. Be very happy to run through it with the missing details filled in.
Running that 75mm MAF calibrated to the 24lb injectors should certainly wake it right up, it’s likely running rich yet feels held back. Adding 30lb injectors with the #30lb calibrated MAF would be more logical, if the rest of the build is matched for it’s potential to be reached.
In addition to the blanks being filled in, would be interesting & important to know what Tuning has been performed.
-Sounds like a nice build w/lots of potential.
-John
Note:* (better-Ported & Polished Trickflow Trackheat upper/lower, Best-1Pc.EFI injector Intake w/bolt on Plenum).
this is all from a DSS invoice sheet. Pro Bullet FT/IN 331 BALANCED AND BLUE PRINTED, FORGED DSS PRO-LITE SERIES PISTONS# 4100 (FT/IN -3cc ), LEVEL 10 CNC BLOCK ,BILLET ALUMINUM MAIN SUPPORT ,ARP MAIN STUDS. FORGED I- BEAMS. AFR 185 HEADS -1420
,DSS AL ROLLER ROCKERS, .600 LIFT SPRINGS, NX274HR .555/ .570 224/236@ .050'' 114 CAM, HI VOLUME OIL PUMP. TRACK HEAT INTAKE MANIFOLD, 70MM TB, 24LB INJ. Also a manual reverse valve body PA c4 .
Full length headers, not sure of what tuning was done, my father bought it 2 years ago, didn't do much with it, he passed away this fall so now I have it.
John, here is a picture of my injectors, I believe a 24lb ev1., correct?
What would be the best choice for injectors?
Attachments
Last edited:
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your loss..
Yes, pictured is a 24lb injector, EV-1 style. Those stage 10 & stage 20 blocks from DSS are OE Ford blocks that are balanced & blueprinted, it running a Romac balancer? These blocks can able about 450HP before they stress crack, nonetheless.
The Comp 274 Cam is a good choice in FI & NOS app’s, also good for Torque #’s across a broad area, the 1420 AFR 185’s are 72cc chambered and are sized well for a 331. If that’s the case, stock gaskets, heads not cut, deck unchanged, Piston’s as said, Piston’s @ 0.020 “in the hole”, nothing else changed, it’s around a 9.4:1 C.Ratio.
They may have done more work there, appears as intent was a FI or NOS at a moments notice while retaining a reliable, torquey, DD.
MVB C4 I see, too. Is the motor running & driving now? If so..how it’s running for you, as-is. What are it’s characteristics..(?)
People generally have a target in mind using DSS’s flexibility, they keep records back from the early 2000’s, contacting them really helps. don’t have a 100% C.Ratio, without disassembly.
Is there a Tuning shop (Dyno) in your area, or have you noted a chipset or a rotary switch mounted on the dash, in the glovebox off a wire exiting your CPU?
Can’t go wrong with Ford injectors, Bosch, Accel actually makes a good injector without breaking the bank.
Do you have a pic of the motor to see what else it there that needs be, maybe spot others that need be. IMHO, calling DSS for solid info on what was done will help.
Good luck!
-John
Sorry to hear about your loss..
Yes, pictured is a 24lb injector, EV-1 style. Those stage 10 & stage 20 blocks from DSS are OE Ford blocks that are balanced & blueprinted, it running a Romac balancer? These blocks can able about 450HP before they stress crack, nonetheless.
The Comp 274 Cam is a good choice in FI & NOS app’s, also good for Torque #’s across a broad area, the 1420 AFR 185’s are 72cc chambered and are sized well for a 331. If that’s the case, stock gaskets, heads not cut, deck unchanged, Piston’s as said, Piston’s @ 0.020 “in the hole”, nothing else changed, it’s around a 9.4:1 C.Ratio.
They may have done more work there, appears as intent was a FI or NOS at a moments notice while retaining a reliable, torquey, DD.
MVB C4 I see, too. Is the motor running & driving now? If so..how it’s running for you, as-is. What are it’s characteristics..(?)
People generally have a target in mind using DSS’s flexibility, they keep records back from the early 2000’s, contacting them really helps. don’t have a 100% C.Ratio, without disassembly.
Is there a Tuning shop (Dyno) in your area, or have you noted a chipset or a rotary switch mounted on the dash, in the glovebox off a wire exiting your CPU?
Can’t go wrong with Ford injectors, Bosch, Accel actually makes a good injector without breaking the bank.
Do you have a pic of the motor to see what else it there that needs be, maybe spot others that need be. IMHO, calling DSS for solid info on what was done will help.
Good luck!
-John
I haven't tried to look at the computer yet, I only got it here the end of September. There are no o2 sensors, seems to run fine. I've noticed the check engine light comes on after a bit, also the light for volts, but it goes away later. Still the original alternator.
I'm not sure about a dyno. I believe there may be one about a half hour away. I'm not sure about tuner people. I'll have to find the Ford guys in the spring and see where to go to. So I don't know if it has a chip or anything done to the computer.
I'm not sure about a dyno. I believe there may be one about a half hour away. I'm not sure about tuner people. I'll have to find the Ford guys in the spring and see where to go to. So I don't know if it has a chip or anything done to the computer.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, no o2’s?I haven't tried to look at the computer yet, I only got it here the end of September. There are no o2 sensors, seems to run fine. I've noticed the check engine light comes on after a bit, also the light for volts, but it goes away later. Still the original alternator.
I'm not sure about a dyno. I believe there may be one about a half hour away. I'm not sure about tuner people. I'll have to find the Ford guys in the spring and see where to go to. So I don't know if it has a chip or anything done to the computer.
Sounds like someone has been in there doing some CPU work, potentially disabling things & who knows what else. With an 8K$ DSS stroker motor, I’d certainly want to know how much fuel & timing were being thrown at it. They may have modified/recalibrated the MAF or tuned around it, CPU’s still in the loop, yet no 02’s nor Wideband 02 sensor (to monitor the air/fuel mixture).
In this scenario, your best bet is either to dive in, or seek a good tuner to do the same. I’m not there, physically with software to tap in & see what they did. You’ll have to pick up where they left off. There’s a lot of unknowns & the most cautious opinion/ suggestion i can give is to seek that “hands on” opinion.
I’d add a mechanical Oil Pressure gauge in it for the Motors sake, beyond that- i’ll leave it at that for now & get a Stangnet moderator in on this to take a look see for further guidance.
- John
So it's probably not worth buying a MAF or injectors until somebody digs into the computer to see what was done to it?
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
I’m just asking you to hold while I bring in some staff to the thread. Explained why, below...
Well- here’s the thing. It’s unusual to run the Car without any 02’s, normally- it wouldn’t run closed loop without them, and you’d have a solid check engine light.
The 02’s were likely disabled within the programming (which is unusual to do, they constantly correct to help maintain the Air/fuel ratio. This would mean it may be running a default “open loop” fuel map.
There’s also the possibility it never was correctly programmed, reluctors placed on the 02 sensors to shut the CPU up.
In either instance, we need to be sure it’s not leaning out, nor running too rich, how much dynamic timing is being added and at what rate, or- Is the motor being run safely(?)
Then, the MAF. It’s a stock 55mm, 19lb injector unit. Thought for sure it’d be a Cobra or “Big Air” MAF. You can compensate by programming around an incorrect MAF, it’s a waste of time & never works quite like a calibrated MAF, there are circumstances this is purposely done, but 02 sensors are an integral part of this type of tuning.
So, if you install a “proper” calibrated MAF, it could run doomsday rich or worse- lean out the motor due to programming offsets. You have no 02’s that would attempt to correct this, nor 02 wideband sensor to a gauge to warn you it’s was overly rich or lean.
I’d not chance that with my motor, a customer’s motor, much less give advice that may cause any possibility of this to occur to a member seeking guidance on Stangnet.
I work a lot with top end builds like this, it’s what my shops based on...what I’m seeing is something dangerous to move on without further insight, AKA: your CPU’s programming, wideband 02 gauge, data logging.
Believe me- I’d help you out in a second if I lived close, or had more clarity. I’d like for you to pull the CPU’s codes, can you please do that(?)- it’ll be of much help. Even if the CEL’s flashing, there’s codes there.
I don’t want a perfectly good build to do anything but Run the best it can, safely, and with every ounce of torque it will yield to you
I’m just going to pull some more brains in here to assist in formulating the best strategy & acquiring the best opinions, all in your best interests. Not to worry, not going to just leave you hanging, that doesn’t happen on Stangnet.
-John
08GT500
5 Year Member
08GT500
5 Year Member
You’re 100% there’s no 02 sensors on the headers, they mount canted inwards towards each other, may be difficult to see at a glance.(?) Even the EGR is being run. Looks like a good setup, bet it’s a rocket. Any Codes?
-John
-John
Last edited:
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Despite the unknowns, if you took larger injectors than what the MAF and EEC were setup for on a given SBF, you’d be pulsing the larger injectors the same as the smaller injectors, so a substantially larger amount of fuel would be injected into the engine and it would run much richer than desired at lower RPM’s, may idle hunt.
This is with no tuning. I’m pretty certain it has been tuned.
Pull the ECU.There will be an software ID on its Chipset, it can’t be flashed. We can get far with that. DSS would also have records, they’re friendly.
It would also explain no 02’s, you confirmed this?
At increased fuel demands at high RPM’s under hard throttle, it’d likely come to life, but without a tune revamping the fuel maps/timing curve it’s unlikely it would make near the power it’s capable of.
How does it run, strong pulling midrange? Idle ok, is there Codes? I’d pull a few Plugs & read them, see how rich or lean it is. Verify no detonation.I’d pull the CPU & look for a Chipset, ID, CPU ID#.. Once that info is acquired, half the work is done.
The build is best off with 30lb injectors, running maximum load would run under an 85% max duty cycle. Beyond 85%, injectors can’t react quick enough. It’s a pricey build, can’t imagine spending 8-9K$ on an engine build, plus the trans build, to not follow through & tune it. It’s a sweet ride.
You can do most anything with tuning, and most components can be made to work, and recalibration of a MAF, in a conventional sense can be done, yet not often pursued in that direction. But it can be. PRO-M will take a MAF & tube and calibrate it.
30lb injectors are best at higher demands & fit the Motors profile. And tuned, so injectors never exceed the 80-85% duty cycle, tuning would ensure it isn’t receiving excessive fuel at low rpm’s & idle).
It’s mounted a larger C&L housing, much larger than 55mm, likely 75mm.
Here’s a good rundown of the MAF & CPU’s of the 86-93’ Mustangs that may shed some more light on the subject....
http://www.thehotrodgarage.net/mustang_efi.html
If I don’t hear from you before, Happy Holidays to you & yours.
-John
Despite the unknowns, if you took larger injectors than what the MAF and EEC were setup for on a given SBF, you’d be pulsing the larger injectors the same as the smaller injectors, so a substantially larger amount of fuel would be injected into the engine and it would run much richer than desired at lower RPM’s, may idle hunt.
This is with no tuning. I’m pretty certain it has been tuned.
Pull the ECU.There will be an software ID on its Chipset, it can’t be flashed. We can get far with that. DSS would also have records, they’re friendly.
It would also explain no 02’s, you confirmed this?
At increased fuel demands at high RPM’s under hard throttle, it’d likely come to life, but without a tune revamping the fuel maps/timing curve it’s unlikely it would make near the power it’s capable of.
How does it run, strong pulling midrange? Idle ok, is there Codes? I’d pull a few Plugs & read them, see how rich or lean it is. Verify no detonation.I’d pull the CPU & look for a Chipset, ID, CPU ID#.. Once that info is acquired, half the work is done.
The build is best off with 30lb injectors, running maximum load would run under an 85% max duty cycle. Beyond 85%, injectors can’t react quick enough. It’s a pricey build, can’t imagine spending 8-9K$ on an engine build, plus the trans build, to not follow through & tune it. It’s a sweet ride.
You can do most anything with tuning, and most components can be made to work, and recalibration of a MAF, in a conventional sense can be done, yet not often pursued in that direction. But it can be. PRO-M will take a MAF & tube and calibrate it.
30lb injectors are best at higher demands & fit the Motors profile. And tuned, so injectors never exceed the 80-85% duty cycle, tuning would ensure it isn’t receiving excessive fuel at low rpm’s & idle).
It’s mounted a larger C&L housing, much larger than 55mm, likely 75mm.
Here’s a good rundown of the MAF & CPU’s of the 86-93’ Mustangs that may shed some more light on the subject....
http://www.thehotrodgarage.net/mustang_efi.html
If I don’t hear from you before, Happy Holidays to you & yours.
-John
Similar threads
