Metal In Oil Filter

[mrstang]

Awhile back my car started knocking. I haven't driven it since (because it won't start). I drained the oil the other day and I found a few small pieces of metal in the oil filter. My guess is, a cylinder ring is busted.

Any ideas what it could be? (Metal? Why it won't start?)


It's a 1966 coupe, 289.
http://forsaleabq.com/images/Mustang/2.JPG

 

[2+2GT]

Loose bits of metal is not good. May not be related to the starting thing, though, I've seen engines start and run 'till they literally fell apart.

 

[woodsnake]

Too many variables.

The no start and the metal may be completely unrelated.

The engine needs four things, air, fuel, spark, and not be frozen.

Do you have the first three? Can you turn the motor by hand?

 

[mrstang]

I have air, fuel and spark. As for not frozen, I don't think so. The car was running and driving with the knocking sound until I turned it off. While trying to get her started it sounds like its going to start but it doesn't. I also get some really nasty back fires when trying to start it.

To turn the motor, do I just turn the fan?

I'm sure this repair is over my head but if you have any ideas, I appreciate it.

 

[woodsnake]

Sounds like stripped timing gear set. Sorry about that.

If that's the case, you will need to pull the heads, as you more than likely bent a few valves. A new timing gear set isn't that bad, but the labor will be expensive if you have to farm it all out.

 

[Rusty67]

What type of distributor do you have ?

 

[mrstang]

I don't know the type of distributor. I'll have to look when I get home.

And I should have mentioned this before because it’s most likely related. Before the car died I could not hold a steady speed. The car would start to sputter if I tried. If I was accelerating or did not have my foot on the gas at all, it ran fine.

 

[fvike]

If you got metal in your oil filter, that means that you have metal in your oil pump too, and it needs to be replaced. Worst case is that it jams, and you have no oil pressure, and the engine seize up.

 

[zookeeper]

Metal chips in the oil is never good. Time to get out the wrenches and start tearing it down.

 

[mrstang]

Distributor - Drop Oil Pan

Rusty67, I think I see where you were going with that question. I dropped the oil pan a few inches and found out that my oil pump drive shaft was cracked in half.

I could replace the oil pump and shaft without dropping the oil pan all the way but the pan needs some serious cleaning. I removed the cross member but there are some steering parts preventing the pan from coming down all the way.

Does anyone know what I need to do to completely remove the pan?

 

[zookeeper]

The reality is that something got cycled through the engine, and by that I mean the WHOLE engine. Every nook, cranny and oil passage is contaminated with metal particles, and at some point, some of the metal got sucked into the oil pump pickup. The clearances are very tight in the oil pump and it stopped cold, while the oil pump drive shaft did not and it snapped. The entire motor is a goner. It needs to come out for a complete rebuild, thinking otherwise is living in denial.

 

[mrstang]

Metal Pieces

I dropped the oil pan and here's what I found inside. Can anyone tell me what these pieces might be or what they belong to?

View links for pics.
Picasa Web Albums - Dan - Mustang Only

Picasa Web Albums - Dan - Mustang Only

Thanks

 

[jcode68]

Hard to tell from the picture, but looks like some type of washer. If that is trued, then it's reasonable to think there is a loose nut rolling around somewhere that once retained the washer. Like others have said, time to start a teardown to find some answers.

 

[ETEL64]

I would seriously look at the timing chain sprockets and also a valve spring retainers. Running and backfiring are not good sign at all. But one thing is for sure. You need to oper her up.

Good luck.

 

[mrstang]

I brought the pieces to a shop that works only on classic mustangs and to a shop that only does engine rebuilds. They both said the pieces are not metal but hard plastic and they are probably old valve seals. I'll have to check my seals.

They also said I don't necessarily need an engine rebuild because of these pieces.

I got a quote on a long block rebuild while I was at the engine shop. How does $1,800 sound? Includes labor for removal and install. It does not include roller cam and lifters.

 

[zookeeper]

$1800 sounds like about 1/2 of what it should be. I'd be leery of any quote that low. What parts and machine work are they promising? The pic of your engine without the pan looked like a fair amount of buildup to me, indicating very rare oil changes, so I don't think I'd just go with rings and bearings on this one. While a decent mechanic can have an early Mustang engine out in a couple hours, there's also the couple hours to put it back in. Shops around here typically charge near $75 an hour and more, so if you subtract the approx $300 that comes to, that means your getting a long-block rebuild for $1500 and I really don't see how that's possible. I'd shop around.

 

[woodsnake]

Price may be pending on location as well. It seems like a good deal, but not too good to be true.

A guy could pull an engine in a weekend, with a few rented tools and a helper.
A new oil pump is in order with out a doubt, and some head work. But I'm not sure that the bits in the pan necessitate a rebuild.

Again, I think cam,lifters and probably a few bent push rods. Oil pump and oil pump drive shaft.

I'd check the bearings and run a brush thru the passages, put a better cam and lifters in it and call it good.
Or not.

I am not there, it isn't my car, or my check book. But I don't have any reason to screw a guy on the internet either......

 

[mrstang]

Oil pump and shaft are shot.

Engine guy told me to inspect main bearings and rods. How hard is that?

 

[Rusty67]

Dood, seriously... rebuild time.

 

[zookeeper]

Ditto...again...