Hey boss, I'm an enlisted aviator (Aerial Gunner) USAF, AFSOC, on MH-53M Pave Lows. I would worry about the degree first. You could even use the Associates, join the Army and get your degree while in. We have pilots who were ***s (Former Army Guys) who excell in the USAF flying community. You'll never make O-6 (colonel) due to Big Blue polotics, but, gotta try. Most of our ***s were H-1, H-47, H-64 pilots who did just this. And, you'll be getting flight experience while going thru school. If you're worried about the front lines, nothing in the flying business is safe. Trust me. Every time you strap that hunk of steel, rubber and fuel around your waist, you might not make it home. You gotta do what YOU wanna do, not what mommy and daddy want. Unless they're millionaries (heh heh). Life is too short to wish you would have done something, but never did. I am still kicking myself for not going to flight school (US Army), and I fly with people all the time that I know I could out fly. That, and the quality of life for aviators and officers is wayyyy higher than the rest of the military. As far as your folks saying the military is a waste of time...well, I've been "hacking the mission" since 1991. I honestly feel that my time has NOT been a waste at all. I wouldnt trade ANY of it for anything, (even the whole Getting-Shot-Down over Fallujah-Bit), or the (Crashing a helo in West Iraq episode). I've got 700+ days in the Iraq, Afghanistan AOR since 9/11. I would even go so far as to say that if I were to ever write a book about my time in the SOF community (and USAF), you could get an entertaining movie out of the whole deal. Feel free to get ahold of me for any questions. GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! (School First!!!!)
Military Guys In Here
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Thanks for everything guys, it's not the fact that I couldn't go on the front lines. I am not worried about that I just wouldn't enjoy that whereas I would love to be a pilot. Plus my parents would go nuts if I did that and would die from stress. Slepe67 I sent you a PM.
mudbilly
Member
try to get into the academy
sounds like you got the smarts....and motivation......all you need is a politician on your side...if you go navy you can get to take off and land on a carrier........
not to mention that annapolis in a nice place to live
sounds like you got the smarts....and motivation......all you need is a politician on your side...if you go navy you can get to take off and land on a carrier........
not to mention that annapolis in a nice place to live
skywalker
Member
Here goes...
If you want to fly (like I do and will in a couple yeas when I graduate) you can join any brnach of service. However, there is only 2 ways to be guaranteed a pilot's slot:
The Marine Corps contracts officers specificaly for aviation. There is no guarantee on airframe, but believe it or not, you generally get your first or second choice. You must be a commission officer.
The Army has WOFT: Warrant Officer flight training. To be a warrant officer you only need an associates degree. The pay is less, the promotions fewer and you can only fly rotary wing.
The Air Force and Navy WILL NOT GUARANTEE AND AVIATION SLOT AS AN OFFICER. Let no one tell you otherwise, they are lying. HOWEVER, The Air Force is the only one that will offer you a slot on the F-22, assuming you among everyone else applying for it, get accepted first for flight training (You better ne ***** hot) and and then get the proper securiy clearances and are accepted for the F-22 program. IT IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE. The Navy is not much better.
I don't discourage any option but I will say the Marine Corps is the closest thing to a Guarantee for fixed wing flight as you can get and the Army is a guarantee of rotary wing flight.
As far as lifestyle, the Air Force will alter your lifestyle the least, the Marine Corps the most, the Army in between, the Navy is playing an entirely different sport. Their level of lifestyle change is about on par with the Army, that is if you don't count the absurd amount of time you'll be at sea.
Now, all services have hygiene and appearance (as far as weight and clothing) and physical fitness standards. The Marine Corps has the strictest, the Air Force the least strict.
In the Army and Air Force you will have the latest and greatest everything (generally speaking.) In the Marine Corps,w e're flying helicopters that date to the 1950s, get my drift?
In the MArine Corps, you will normally not deploy for longer than 7 months (generally speaking.) In the Army a typical deployment is 12-18 months. The Air Force I can't speak for, the Navy again, plays a different sport than the rest of us.
The Air Force has some of the better duty stations and the hands down best facilities. The Army a damned close second.
The Navy: hit or miss.
The Marine Corps (followed by a close second form the Army) is the most professional. The Air Force the least.
You can make the call on uniforms.
In the Marine Corp, NAvy and Air Force you can also look at the F-35 JSF. This is kind of a F-22 Light Edition. I want to be a fixed wing pilot myself (Hornets) but trust me, don't discount rotary wing. The 4 blade Cobras and Hueys are going to hit soon, and the 2 blade versions are a blast. Iw ould avoid Apaches, they have an inherent design flaw that makes them pretty much crap for desert warfare (the location of the engine intakes makes them prime for sucking up sand.)
If you want to fly (like I do and will in a couple yeas when I graduate) you can join any brnach of service. However, there is only 2 ways to be guaranteed a pilot's slot:
The Marine Corps contracts officers specificaly for aviation. There is no guarantee on airframe, but believe it or not, you generally get your first or second choice. You must be a commission officer.
The Army has WOFT: Warrant Officer flight training. To be a warrant officer you only need an associates degree. The pay is less, the promotions fewer and you can only fly rotary wing.
The Air Force and Navy WILL NOT GUARANTEE AND AVIATION SLOT AS AN OFFICER. Let no one tell you otherwise, they are lying. HOWEVER, The Air Force is the only one that will offer you a slot on the F-22, assuming you among everyone else applying for it, get accepted first for flight training (You better ne ***** hot) and and then get the proper securiy clearances and are accepted for the F-22 program. IT IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE. The Navy is not much better.
I don't discourage any option but I will say the Marine Corps is the closest thing to a Guarantee for fixed wing flight as you can get and the Army is a guarantee of rotary wing flight.
As far as lifestyle, the Air Force will alter your lifestyle the least, the Marine Corps the most, the Army in between, the Navy is playing an entirely different sport. Their level of lifestyle change is about on par with the Army, that is if you don't count the absurd amount of time you'll be at sea.
Now, all services have hygiene and appearance (as far as weight and clothing) and physical fitness standards. The Marine Corps has the strictest, the Air Force the least strict.
In the Army and Air Force you will have the latest and greatest everything (generally speaking.) In the Marine Corps,w e're flying helicopters that date to the 1950s, get my drift?
In the MArine Corps, you will normally not deploy for longer than 7 months (generally speaking.) In the Army a typical deployment is 12-18 months. The Air Force I can't speak for, the Navy again, plays a different sport than the rest of us.
The Air Force has some of the better duty stations and the hands down best facilities. The Army a damned close second.
The Navy: hit or miss.
The Marine Corps (followed by a close second form the Army) is the most professional. The Air Force the least.
You can make the call on uniforms.
In the Marine Corp, NAvy and Air Force you can also look at the F-35 JSF. This is kind of a F-22 Light Edition. I want to be a fixed wing pilot myself (Hornets) but trust me, don't discount rotary wing. The 4 blade Cobras and Hueys are going to hit soon, and the 2 blade versions are a blast. Iw ould avoid Apaches, they have an inherent design flaw that makes them pretty much crap for desert warfare (the location of the engine intakes makes them prime for sucking up sand.)
skywalker
Member
Oh, BTW, aviation is one of the least safest MOSes in the military. You will be on the front lines (YOU ARE the front line!) So, if you have ANY reservations about putting your life on the line, this is not the place for you.
skywalker
Member
DO NOT DO ROTC!!!!! BAD BAD BAD IDEA! Go ask a military pilot how he get his comission, very few will tel you ROTC. I'm yet to meet a Marine Pilot who didn't do PLC.
69Rcode_Mach1 said:
I am not worried about being on the front lines and whatnot this is what I want to do. To protect and to serve, I just would much prefer flying over being a footsoldier. I went to the AFROTC and the resources they have will help me a ton. Especially since I am getting a minor in aerospace I have to take classes from the ROTC anyway. Looking at the statistics if I can keep my grades up which isn't a problem, practice flying on the side, and learn my ****. This should almost guarantee me a spot, I am willing to bust balls for this and I will not fail. I have also talked with the Airforce and if you want to be a pilot you have to be an officer, that can be done either at the ROTC or the Airforce academy. I am lined up for the basic classes and will get all my college credit figured out and may be able to go do basics soon. And then do the advanced officer classes the last little bit while I get my degree.
know a guy named ken? I wont post his last name.slepe67 said:
He was at RAF Mildenhall before going to Alburquerque for a training position.
LMan
Founding Member
Sorry, I have not read all the thread, I am jsut out of hte Air Force, about 1y3m now. I was enlisted, aircraft maintnance, so I got to know alot of the aircrews. The most common majors are Mech Engineering, havinga pilots liscense helps, but if you have a multi-engine license it will decrease your chances of getting into a fighter (why would they do that if you already know how to fly a heavy)
Do NOT talk to a recruiter if you do not want to become enlisted. They will feed you lines of crap, trust me.
The only honest recruiter I met was a distant uncle of mine who told me not to go Navy (he was the Navy recruiter). If you are near a base, I would stake out the local food joints on pay day, (1st and 15th) preferable the ones where payday falls on a friday or a weekend, and look for guys whereing flight suits to talk to, the officers at that, not the engineers if it is a heavy base.
To try and get an even better chance at fighters though, the Academy is a good place to start. To get in, you normally need letters from your Senetor and Congressman. And if you have connections with someone higher, then them as well. I dont know how/if that would work with you already being in school.
I am not aware of an age limit, but if you can show the drive to be out of school before 20, then I would imagine that would greatly increase your chances.
BTW, if you want some reasons why the military wants the technical fields more than the liberal arts, the reason is because they have no place for those type of thinkers (no offense to anyone) That and for flightcrew, they need people good with math, even simple math, quick and accuratly done in your head, and people who can make good, quick, logical decisions when there is no time to make them.
I would shy away from some degree choices which seem to make more sense, like aeronautical degrees or aviation and airfield management. These majors have a tendency to actually be put where their degrees are put to use, Airfield management, ATC officers, research work hand-in-hand with contractors such as Lockheed-Martin, or again, flying heavies.
Good luck, and the best of wishes to you.
Do NOT talk to a recruiter if you do not want to become enlisted. They will feed you lines of crap, trust me.
The only honest recruiter I met was a distant uncle of mine who told me not to go Navy (he was the Navy recruiter). If you are near a base, I would stake out the local food joints on pay day, (1st and 15th) preferable the ones where payday falls on a friday or a weekend, and look for guys whereing flight suits to talk to, the officers at that, not the engineers if it is a heavy base.To try and get an even better chance at fighters though, the Academy is a good place to start. To get in, you normally need letters from your Senetor and Congressman. And if you have connections with someone higher, then them as well. I dont know how/if that would work with you already being in school.
I am not aware of an age limit, but if you can show the drive to be out of school before 20, then I would imagine that would greatly increase your chances.
BTW, if you want some reasons why the military wants the technical fields more than the liberal arts, the reason is because they have no place for those type of thinkers (no offense to anyone) That and for flightcrew, they need people good with math, even simple math, quick and accuratly done in your head, and people who can make good, quick, logical decisions when there is no time to make them.
I would shy away from some degree choices which seem to make more sense, like aeronautical degrees or aviation and airfield management. These majors have a tendency to actually be put where their degrees are put to use, Airfield management, ATC officers, research work hand-in-hand with contractors such as Lockheed-Martin, or again, flying heavies.
Good luck, and the best of wishes to you.
SadbutTrue
Founding Member
I'm in Air Force ROTC at Cal. My goal is also to be a pilot, though I've hit a bit of a (major) snag (another story). In any case...
As others have said, you must be an officer to be a pilot. With the Air Force, this means you can commission as an officer from one of three sources: Officer Training School (OTS), the Air Force Academy, or AFROTC.
OTS is getting smaller and smaller and harder to get into. Basically, it is for people who already have a degree, and they go through an intensive 12 week "boot camp," where they learn all the military customs and courtesies, rules, traditions, leadership skills, etc. required. Because the people are older, most of the people here are veteran civilian pilots with advanced flying licenses. A lot are also former enlisted. I wouldn't recommend this way, if possible.
The Air Force Academy is, as you probably know, a 4 year service academy. It pretty much entails going through hell for 4 years (I would describe it as a prison compared to most colleges). This isn't to say that you won't enjoy it, most do: but I've heard people (on this board) say that they don't think that the education is all that great, and you take a lot more crap than an ROTC cadet. And once you commission, it doesn't matter where you came from. The one plus: if you get through and you're medically qualified, you're gauranteed a pilot slot.
ROTC (what I'm doing) entails a varying degree of commitment. Once contracted (also true in the AFA), you're obligated to serve for 4 years, 10 if you get a pilot slot. What you put into it, is exactly what you'll get out of it. Some people spend 2 hours a week on ROTC, some spend 20. Its much more self-defined than the other two. You will go to a 4 or 6 week "Field Training", and based on a number of factors (test scores, GPA, perfomance at FT and at your detachment, etc.) you compete for a pilot slot. Though it is still very competitive, it isn't as bad as OTS (more slots, and not as many people are pilots going in). And trust me, a 4 week field training is infinitely better than 4 years a service academy or 12 weeks of OTS (OTS is a compressed version of ROTC essentially - you learn exactly the same stuff, just over 12 weeks intead of 4 years). Best of all, you get a pretty much normal college experience. Outside marching around, working out at 6am, and not being able to protest or do drugs, you can do anything your friends do.
Those are your options for applying for a pilot slot. I can get much more detailed on all that is required and advice, if you want it. Let me know.. [email protected]
As others have said, you must be an officer to be a pilot. With the Air Force, this means you can commission as an officer from one of three sources: Officer Training School (OTS), the Air Force Academy, or AFROTC.
OTS is getting smaller and smaller and harder to get into. Basically, it is for people who already have a degree, and they go through an intensive 12 week "boot camp," where they learn all the military customs and courtesies, rules, traditions, leadership skills, etc. required. Because the people are older, most of the people here are veteran civilian pilots with advanced flying licenses. A lot are also former enlisted. I wouldn't recommend this way, if possible.
The Air Force Academy is, as you probably know, a 4 year service academy. It pretty much entails going through hell for 4 years (I would describe it as a prison compared to most colleges). This isn't to say that you won't enjoy it, most do: but I've heard people (on this board) say that they don't think that the education is all that great, and you take a lot more crap than an ROTC cadet. And once you commission, it doesn't matter where you came from. The one plus: if you get through and you're medically qualified, you're gauranteed a pilot slot.
ROTC (what I'm doing) entails a varying degree of commitment. Once contracted (also true in the AFA), you're obligated to serve for 4 years, 10 if you get a pilot slot. What you put into it, is exactly what you'll get out of it. Some people spend 2 hours a week on ROTC, some spend 20. Its much more self-defined than the other two. You will go to a 4 or 6 week "Field Training", and based on a number of factors (test scores, GPA, perfomance at FT and at your detachment, etc.) you compete for a pilot slot. Though it is still very competitive, it isn't as bad as OTS (more slots, and not as many people are pilots going in). And trust me, a 4 week field training is infinitely better than 4 years a service academy or 12 weeks of OTS (OTS is a compressed version of ROTC essentially - you learn exactly the same stuff, just over 12 weeks intead of 4 years). Best of all, you get a pretty much normal college experience. Outside marching around, working out at 6am, and not being able to protest or do drugs, you can do anything your friends do.
Those are your options for applying for a pilot slot. I can get much more detailed on all that is required and advice, if you want it. Let me know.. [email protected]
SadbutTrue
Founding Member
Jarred Darque said:
This man is right about several things. Recruiters will not be able to help you. However, I can tell you firsthand that school and major have next to no direct impact on selection process, only GPA. Trust me, it blows, because I think that going to Cal (ranked as high as #2 university in the world recently) and as a mechanical engineer I really think I should get some extra credit or something... but I don't. Meanwhile, my humanities friends have 3.9 gpas in history and have an edge on me in their order of merit scores. But yeah, I know for a fact that this is how selection works. The only way you can sort of get around this is if your detachment commander realizes that engineering or your school is harder than most and gives you a higher commanders rating score because of it. Most don't, so I recommend majoring in something easy. Less stress means you do bette rin ROTC, plus I gaurantee your GPA will be higher. But I'm getting ahead of myself. If you have more questions on exactly how the application is weighted for ROTC (ie, what counts, and for how much), let me know.
This is just for pilots however. The Air Force has and always will want engineers more than anyone else (they give bigger/better scholarships to engineers much easier), but I have never seen anyone get turned away from ROTC because of major.
Again, feel free to ask questions.
SadbutTrue
Founding Member
skywalker said:
Not true at all. ROTC gets more slots than any other commissioning source (the pool is much, much larger). Roughly 300 OTS grads a year, vs 1000 academy grads vs 3-5000 ROTC grads. Even with the gauranteed academy slots, ROTC gets more than the rest.
edit: This is Air Force only, I don't know a whole lot about the other services' commissioning processes.
I am a Navy Corpsman with the 1st Marine Division. I was in college and dropped out to enlist. Here's my take on the military, I have trained with every branch and spent the bulk of my service with the infantry Marines.
The blue side Navy I can't stand. I am green side Navy - a sailor wearing Marine uniforms with a Marine unit. I love the Marine Corps for their professionalism. Every time I leave Camp Pendleton and go to 32nd Street (San Diego Navy Base) I develop an ulcer. The Navy is not nearly as professional as the Marine Corps.
The Army, don't get me started. Some maroon beret guys trained with us once. They spent all their time trying to impress the Marines. They couldn't hack it. Army medics, again don't get me started. Small side note, the Army salutes in the field. Do you want the snipers to know that you are an important officer?
The Air Force isn't really the military. A room to yourself? Elevators in the barracks? Forty pushups? come on.
I speak for the enlisted side, of course.
If you want the best service join the Marines. You are guaranteed a flight seat if you are commissioned and so desire. Most importantly, you work with the best people, important when you fly a plane that depends on the professionalism of the people working on it. You can fly the F/A-18C/D/E/F, the AV-8B (Harrier), the C-130, the CH-53 (Super Stallion/Jolly Green Giant), AH-1 (Cobra), the CH-46, among others. The USMC is getting a V/STOL variant of the F-35 JSF.
As far as the Air Force goes, I have trained with and respect PJs. Otherwise, the Air Force is a joke.
The blue side Navy I can't stand. I am green side Navy - a sailor wearing Marine uniforms with a Marine unit. I love the Marine Corps for their professionalism. Every time I leave Camp Pendleton and go to 32nd Street (San Diego Navy Base) I develop an ulcer. The Navy is not nearly as professional as the Marine Corps.
The Army, don't get me started. Some maroon beret guys trained with us once. They spent all their time trying to impress the Marines. They couldn't hack it. Army medics, again don't get me started. Small side note, the Army salutes in the field. Do you want the snipers to know that you are an important officer?
The Air Force isn't really the military. A room to yourself? Elevators in the barracks? Forty pushups? come on.
I speak for the enlisted side, of course.
If you want the best service join the Marines. You are guaranteed a flight seat if you are commissioned and so desire. Most importantly, you work with the best people, important when you fly a plane that depends on the professionalism of the people working on it. You can fly the F/A-18C/D/E/F, the AV-8B (Harrier), the C-130, the CH-53 (Super Stallion/Jolly Green Giant), AH-1 (Cobra), the CH-46, among others. The USMC is getting a V/STOL variant of the F-35 JSF.
As far as the Air Force goes, I have trained with and respect PJs. Otherwise, the Air Force is a joke.
Hey man, check out www.airwarriors.com. There are a lot of people asking these kind of questions there.
Stay away from recruiters.
As for no guarantees with the Air Force or Navy, thats not true. OCS (navy version of OTS) you apply for a specific job. Pilot, SEAL, whatever. If you get accepted, thats what you get. Im pretty sure to get into Air Force Pilot training these days you have to have a lot of flight hours. I did NROTC and its great if you need help paying for college. Otherwise, party for 4 years and then put in an OCS application.
The thing about the marines being more professional is true in a lot of cases. So much pride and tradition with those guys, its hard to not be impressed.
There are many pros and cons to all services. The important thing is there is no one best path to jets. Its a lot of hard work and/or a lot of luck. Let me know if you have any questions. And yes Im biased, but the most difficult/cool/exhilerating/scary/demanding thing you can do in aviation anywhere is land on a moving boat at 150 mph. Fly Navy/Marine Corps...
CJM.
NROTC, EA-6B Navigator for 4 years, currently back in training for F/A-18 pilot transition.
Stay away from recruiters.
As for no guarantees with the Air Force or Navy, thats not true. OCS (navy version of OTS) you apply for a specific job. Pilot, SEAL, whatever. If you get accepted, thats what you get. Im pretty sure to get into Air Force Pilot training these days you have to have a lot of flight hours. I did NROTC and its great if you need help paying for college. Otherwise, party for 4 years and then put in an OCS application.
The thing about the marines being more professional is true in a lot of cases. So much pride and tradition with those guys, its hard to not be impressed.
There are many pros and cons to all services. The important thing is there is no one best path to jets. Its a lot of hard work and/or a lot of luck. Let me know if you have any questions. And yes Im biased, but the most difficult/cool/exhilerating/scary/demanding thing you can do in aviation anywhere is land on a moving boat at 150 mph. Fly Navy/Marine Corps...
CJM.
NROTC, EA-6B Navigator for 4 years, currently back in training for F/A-18 pilot transition.
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